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[W:268Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up and not getting paid

Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Acadia said:
Dems' big problem with authenticity still looms large. I don't find one of them likable. Bernie's a fricking full-on "GET OFF MY LAWN!" curmudgeon.
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Still they're all better than Trump, he publicly supported the KKK and Neo Nazis, saying some are "very fine people". He also bragged about sexually assaulting women. He is a blatant racist who led the racist Birther Movement for a decade, attacking a sitting POTUS as UnAmerican for nothing more than the color of his skin.

Trump is about as repugnant as it gets, none of the Dems come close to being as slimy as Trump.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

NeverTrump said:
So this is why his campaign rallies are like mobs, he runs them like one. For those small government conservatives wondering, Yes this is corruption at the highest level! I can't imagine what dirt he must have on the leaders of shell for him to even suggest this and for them to agree.

OTOH he might be the one person on this planet who actually adopts the conspiracy theories he himself spouts. Bussing people in. Protesters paid for by George Soros. Odd that he does the same thing he complains about just like how he hires all those illegal immigrants....
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I figured as much, for the few minutes I watched that on TV, the workers behind him looked pissed off to me. :roll:
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

SheWolf said:
I would be so mad if I had to a political rally. I wonder if they were forbidden to protest or be disruptive at all.
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bearpoker said:
Interesting that Trump and Shell had to resort to such tactics. If I had to go to a rally like that, I'd be sure to bring my e-reader.
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It's in the article.

No yelling, shouting, protesting or anything viewed as resistance will be tolerated at the event.

That's crazy.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

OrphanSlug said:
I am not convinced there is much to be upset about here.
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Not unless you're a Shell worker and you can't afford for your pay to be docked because you have bills to pay and a family to feed. They should be paid time and a half to have to stand and listen to the Blowhard in Chief.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Acadia said:
Don't join a union.
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The article says, "Several union leaders said they were not consulted about the arrangement before it was sent out."

The union did not organize this, a contractor for Shell took responsibility for arranging it and for the memo, but they had to have the approval of Shell executives.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Praxas said:
Yeah I'm sure if Obama had worked with a company to do this you would have been cheering it on.:roll:
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That's a fair point, but the problem is, I highly doubt a left leaning executive would tolerate such a policy. If you read the article, the workers felt financial pressure to participate and get paid for 56 hours a week. Even if you felt a financial need to participate, the policy stipulated, “No yelling, shouting, protesting or anything viewed as resistance will be tolerated at the event."

There people stood for the entire rally, had no chairs, and "worked" though one hour of lunch but no lunch was actually provided.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

SheWolf said:
It's in the article.

No yelling, shouting, protesting or anything viewed as resistance will be tolerated at the event.

That's crazy.
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Why?

If you are on your employers time and payed by them, you follow the rules.

This was not a mandatory event.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

NeverTrump said:
So this is why his campaign rallies are like mobs, he runs them like one. For those small government conservatives wondering, Yes this is corruption at the highest level! I can't imagine what dirt he must have on the leaders of shell for him to even suggest this and for them to agree.

OTOH he might be the one person on this planet who actually adopts the conspiracy theories he himself spouts. Bussing people in. Protesters paid for by George Soros. Odd that he does the same thing he complains about just like how he hires all those illegal immigrants....



Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid
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And could you please explain to me exactly what is wrong with using "Rent-A-Crowd" services?
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Barnacle said:
From what I understand is that there was no work scheduled for these workers for that day. In other words, it was an "excused absence" if the worker did not show up, hence "attendance is not mandatory".

No work (includes company-organized meetings), no pay, no hours counting towards overtime.
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I don't know what union you belong to, but the last union I belonged to took the position that "company organized meetings OUTSIDE of normal working hours" WERE paid hours that DID count towards overtime even if attendance was NOT mandatory (provided that you went to them, of course).
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

SheWolf said:
It's in the article.

No yelling, shouting, protesting or anything viewed as resistance will be tolerated at the event.

That's crazy.
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Not at all. It's right there in the 1[sup]st[/sup] Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances BUT if you are going to a political meeting you may not express disapproval of anything that the people who are authorized speakers say.
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Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

JustHanging said:
Still they're all better than Trump, he publicly supported the KKK and Neo Nazis, saying some are "very fine people". He also bragged about sexually assaulting women. He is a blatant racist who led the racist Birther Movement for a decade, attacking a sitting POTUS as UnAmerican for nothing more than the color of his skin.

Trump is about as repugnant as it gets, none of the Dems come close to being as slimy as Trump.
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That's all you got to beat Trump in 2020? The lie about what he said? I have to tell you, it's a pathetic platform and one which million of Americans are sick and tired of. It's like you're rooting for Trump to win in 2020.
If this is an example of the Democrat party, it is entirely out of touch with America.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

A foreign owned oil company feels it has to stack the deck to make the current POTUS look good at a political event?

lol...

And the Trumpsters still don't see what's going on with their guy?

Poorly educated indeed...
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

TU Curmudgeon said:
I don't know what union you belong to, but the last union I belonged to took the position that "company organized meetings OUTSIDE of normal working hours" WERE paid hours that DID count towards overtime even if attendance was NOT mandatory (provided that you went to them, of course).
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Lucky for you then ...
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

NeverTrump said:
Would you like it if your employer forced you to go to a political rally? Or see a democratic candidate? Employers are supposed to stay out of this type of stuff.
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Lying is the #1 Democratic tactic. NO ONE was FORCED to go to a political rally.

Your hypocrisy is noted. Google pays employees to search out and remove political content and other content for banning. Your response is that Google a private company that can do what it wants - meaning paying people to ban and censor free speech including political speech. So we know you are A-OK with companies paying employees for political activity - and not just for half a day but full time as their job duty area.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

This is a move towards fascism -- which links official government dogma with corporate power. In this instance, workers were required to be the back-drop of what was essentially a reelection rally, or not get paid. That's wrong on many levels. I'm not even sure the company can dock pay, legally, for not attending a political rally.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

MrPeanut said:
It's a really crappy thing to do to people, but it just reminds me of the military. It's mandatory to help with good PR for powerful people. I do wish the Republicans who constantly spout individualism would be more upset with these types of coercion.
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Why? Democrats LOVE that it. There is never a complaint of Google having an entire department of full time employees censoring political speech Google doesn't like. No one has ever complained of tactics used to force union members to attend Democratic candidates functions.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Lord of Planar said:
Why?

If you are on your employers time and payed by them, you follow the rules.

This was not a mandatory event.
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NO SCAN, NO PAY. That's what they said. The workers feel obligated to reach 56 hours per week, and according to the article, if they didn't go, they would have lost $700 for that day in wages and benefits.

That's a lot of money for a middle income family.

The way I am, I wouldn't have wanted to leave money. I would have personally felt a financial reason to go, and that's not right. You right wingers act like the left so anti free speech, but then you support stuff like this. This is about speech. It's like paying people to vote. It's literally paying people to support a politician for a day. They were paid to be Trump supporters, and paid by their company. That's worse than a PAC offering a few hundred to bus some people to an event. It's your company paying you, and excepting to participate in a political event as part of your daily work.

Seriously. What would you do if your boss excepted you to go to a AOC rally for the day to get paid? You would be absolutely fine with your boss doing that?
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

SheWolf said:
NO SCAN, NO PAY. That's what they said. The workers feel obligated to reach 56 hours per week, and according to the article, if they didn't go, they would have lost $700 for that day in wages and benefits.

That's a lot of money for a middle income family.

The way I am, I wouldn't have wanted to leave money. I would have personally felt a financial reason to go, and that's not right. You right wingers act like the left so anti free speech, but then you support stuff like this. This is about speech. It's like paying people to vote. It's literally paying people to support a politician for a day. They were paid to be Trump supporters, and paid by their company. That's worse than a PAC offering a few hundred to bus some people to an event. It's your company paying you, and excepting to participate in a political event as part of your daily work.

Seriously. What would you do if your boss excepted you to go to a AOC rally for the day to get paid? You would be absolutely fine with your boss doing that?
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Seriously?!? You are putting AOC on the same level as the President of the United States?!?

:lamo
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Lord of Planar said:
Nobody was forced to do anything. The article says they were paid strait time if they didn't attend, and overtime if they did:

This story has been updated to clarify the origin of a memo to workers at Shell's site.

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Shell spokesman Ray Fisher explained that the workers onsite have a 56-hour workweek, with 16 hours of overtime built in. That means those workers who attended Mr. Trump’s speech and showed up for work Friday, meeting the overtime threshold, were being paid at a rate of time and a half, while those who didn’t go to hear the president were being paid the regular rate, despite the fact that both groups did not do work on the site Tuesday.
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Why should an employee be paid less if they didn't attend and others paid more if they did attend?
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

TU Curmudgeon said:
I don't know what union you belong to, but the last union I belonged to took the position that "company organized meetings OUTSIDE of normal working hours" WERE paid hours that DID count towards overtime even if attendance was NOT mandatory (provided that you went to them, of course).
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They had to scan their badges to get paid for the whole day, but sitting out the Trump rally doesn't seem to be an option either. There was no option to get paid for the day doing anything else. To get paid, you had to attend the Trump rally, and you were not allowed to protest, shout, or show resistance during the Trump rally.

This event was also intended to be used as good marketing in the news. These people were used as pawns, and a lot of them most likely went because they were not in a position to lose their pay for the day.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

any union member who votes Republican is misguided at best. my guess is that a lot of them don't want to go to a Mango the Clown klan rally.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

Lord of Planar said:
Nobody was forced to do anything. The article says they were paid strait time if they didn't attend, and overtime if they did:

This story has been updated to clarify the origin of a memo to workers at Shell's site.

---

Shell spokesman Ray Fisher explained that the workers onsite have a 56-hour workweek, with 16 hours of overtime built in. That means those workers who attended Mr. Trump’s speech and showed up for work Friday, meeting the overtime threshold, were being paid at a rate of time and a half, while those who didn’t go to hear the president were being paid the regular rate, despite the fact that both groups did not do work on the site Tuesday.
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Good Lord! Yet another reading challenged conservative.

"The Pittsburgh Gazette reported that a contractor sent a memo to union leaders that the employees’ attendance at a Shell Pennsylvania Petrochemicals Complex in Monaca, Pennsylvania was “not mandatory.” However, a supervisor for the contractor wrote that only employees who arrived at the hours-long event would receive pay, writing, “NO SCAN, NO PAY.”"


"A number of companies with Shell contracts and their employees were on site during the event, according to the Gazette. Several employees said that their contracts required them to be onsite to receive pay.

Employees who did not turn up for the event were also reportedly at risk for losing hours of overtime pay. Ray Fisher, a Shell spokesperson, told the Gazette that workers onsite have a 56-hour workweek, with 16 overtime hours built in. Employees who turned up for the event would have begun to receive overtime hours for work on Friday, while those who stayed home would not have been over the threshold." "
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

joko104 said:
Why? Democrats LOVE that it. There is never a complaint of Google having an entire department of full time employees censoring political speech Google doesn't like. No one has ever complained of tactics used to force union members to attend Democratic candidates functions.
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You are right - except for the fact that Google doesn't censor political speech Google doesn't like.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

OrphanSlug said:
Probably not, I am not a union supporter (at least not in the modern context of what they have become.)
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Some of them.

Mine, IATSE, is more like a traditional trade union. We can't shut a town down like the teamsters.

We have to provide good value to get what we get.
 
Re: Trump's large union crowd at Shell was given the option of not showing up — and not getting paid

OrphanSlug said:
The bottom line is unionization mixed with political influence has caused this conclusion.

It does not matter if we are talking about a machinists union, auto construction union, teachers union, a union of low wage workers across service industries, a pilots union, or otherwise the basic premise is the same. Show up, get paid.

As I said before, I am not sure there is much to get upset about here as that is how these operations are ran. I do not care if we are talking about actual work, a meeting, a rally to support someone (D) or (R) or otherwise behind the name, whatever else... organization of labor means organization of representation.

Right or wrong, good or bad, agree with whatever union jumps behind whatever candidate... that is what happens.

Now if we want to chastise this union for what they did for Trump, and ignore what other unions did for Obama (someone else brought that up in some asinine attempt to call me out) then we have a big problem.

If you organize labor, tie it to political desire this is the result. Left or right, this will always happen.
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We don't get paid to show up at a rally. We volunteer.
 
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