• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NYC medical examiner rules Jeffrey Epstein death suicide by hanging

Jack Fabulous

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
16,948
Reaction score
6,740
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
New York medical examiner: Jeffrey Epstein'''s death was a suicide by hanging | Fox News

New York City's chief medical examiner has ruled that disgraced financier and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide by hanging in his prison cell last week, a federal official told Fox News Friday.

Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan early on Aug.10 and was pronounced dead hours later.
Click to expand...

I contend that Jeffery Epstein may well have taken his own life but this does not mean that "others" did not play a part in helping facilitate the opportunity for him to do so.

It still stinks to high heaven as far as I'm concerned.
 
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
 
Binary_Digit said:
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
Click to expand...

That aspect was a little over played. The same bones that can be broken in a strangulation can also be broken by hanging.
 
Binary_Digit said:
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is what they found. And adding to it that he didn't have a long distance to drop like might happen with other suicides, that makes it even more unlikely. So completely sketchy but the rich and powerful can get away with anything they want
 
Binary_Digit said:
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
Click to expand...

You just did. Rarely means it happens in suicide sometimes, but there's no reason to believe that this isn't one of those times. ****-up trumps conspiracy.
 
Binary_Digit said:
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
Click to expand...

I agree I would like to know if it is normal in hanging suicides for more than one bone to be broken.
 
Sometimes the best explanation is the simplest one.
 
This entire episode stinks.

Barr's Bureau of Prisons allowed a celebrity inmate, who had attempted suicide the week before, to be in a cell alone, and under the remit of guards that fell asleep on duty.
 
Rogue Valley said:
This entire episode stinks.

Barr's Bureau of Prisons allowed a celebrity inmate, who had attempted suicide the week before, to be in a cell alone, and under the remit of guards that fell asleep on duty.
Click to expand...

You should note that Barr answers to Trump, making it sound even more ominous...
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Yes, that is what they found. And adding to it that he didn't have a long distance to drop like might happen with other suicides, that makes it even more unlikely. So completely sketchy but the rich and powerful can get away with anything they want
Click to expand...

Epstein was rich and powerful. So why didn't he get away with the crimes he evidently committed ?
 
They will probably be looking at his brother next
 
Manc Skipper said:
You just did. Rarely means it happens in suicide sometimes, but there's no reason to believe that this isn't one of those times. ****-up trumps conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Rarely in suicides that have a decent amount of distance wasn't it?
 
Binary_Digit said:
Didn't he have a broken bone that's rarely found in suicides, but commonly found in strangulations (homicides)? I wish they would address that.
Click to expand...



The hyoid bone is fractured/crushed to whatever extent in approximately 25% of suicides by hanging from what I heard on several news programs, although for all I know the information came from the same source.
 
If they staged it, they apparently did a very thorough job, and avoided leaving too many signs behind. Anything else would have too many people in play.

The cameras going off at just the right time is sticking with me, because AFAIK Epstein would have no way of knowing they were off, and why would he care about that in his suicidal extremis anyhow?

Unless they told him they were off, the cameras going only makes sense as a raw coincidence (fate does have a twisted sense of humor) or a murder.

We also have the disappearing guards and taking him off suicide watch for no reason they want to talk about now.

One of the few certainties is it's a massive stain on the prison and it's management. They are either incompetent or complicit. I don't really see paid leave and reassignments as appropriate responses.

It certainly doesn't add up, but the avenues to investigate are dwindling, so I'd guess we'll never know for sure.
 
Ligature and marks around the neck.If you must cut a hanging victim down, cut above the knot, as this preserves this item for forensics. Knots normally involve a high degree of movement in their creation, leading to plenty of forensic opportunities for DNA profiles at a later stage. What do the marks around the neck show you? Is it just bruising following a similar pattern to the ridges in the rope used? That’s pretty normal and may be consistent with suicide. If there are other marks, alarm bells should be ringing.
Click to expand...

How to Tell the Difference Between a Hanging and a Murder That Looks Like One | The Forensic Outreach Library

Well, there you go....it was more than just bruising around Epstein's neck.


Here this study shows that only one case out of 87 hangings by suicide had a fractured bone in the throat. Only one...

Dribbling of saliva was observed in 27 (32.53%) cases. Bleeding from mouth and nose was seen in 2 (2.40%) cases only. Grooving of the ligature mark (Figure 3) over the skin of neck was present in 19 (22.89%). It was absent in 64 (77.10%) cases. A single case amongst all the examined cases shows fractured hyoid bone (1.20%).
Click to expand...

https://www.ommegaonline.org/articl...al-Examination-With-Evaluation-And-Review/770


In lieu of the reported forensic evidence so far, I'd have to say that Epstein's death does indeed look highly suspicious.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
New York medical examiner: Jeffrey Epstein'''s death was a suicide by hanging | Fox News



I contend that Jeffery Epstein may well have taken his own life but this does not mean that "others" did not play a part in helping facilitate the opportunity for him to do so.

It still stinks to high heaven as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

Moot said:
How to Tell the Difference Between a Hanging and a Murder That Looks Like One | The Forensic Outreach Library

Well, there you go....it was more than just bruising around Epstein's neck.


Here this study shows that only one case out of 87 hangings by suicide had a fractured bone in the throat. Only one...



https://www.ommegaonline.org/articl...al-Examination-With-Evaluation-And-Review/770


In lieu of the reported forensic evidence so far, I'd have to say that Epstein's death does indeed look highly suspicious.
Click to expand...

Yes; the fracture of this particular bone is generally a basis for investigating a death as a homicide rather than a suicide.

In reality, even if Epstein was ultimately killed via hanging, that he was suffocated first cannot be excluded as a possibility.


Meanwhile the warden responsible who engaged in what is ostensibly career ending incompetence is now merely getting a transfer to another facility.
 
Last edited:
Surrealistik said:
Yes; the fracture of this particular bone is generally a basis for investigating a death as a homicide rather than a suicide.

In reality, even if Epstein was ultimately killed via hanging, that he was suffocated first cannot be excluded as a possibility.


Meanwhile the warden responsible who engaged in what is ostensibly career ending incompetence is now merely getting a transfer to another facility.
Click to expand...

It would seem to me that transferring the warden would be a prerequisite to a thorough investigation of the facility he was in charge of. You're making it sound like he was transferred and that's it. That isn't it. The results of the investigation will determine his fate.
 
Surrealistik said:
Yes; the fracture of this particular bone is generally a basis for investigating a death as a homicide rather than a suicide.

In reality, even if Epstein was ultimately killed via hanging, that he was suffocated first cannot be excluded as a possibility.
Click to expand...

Suffocation by strangulation is also possibility. Whats odd is they're not saying how he managed to hang himself or with what.

With several bones in his throat splintered suggests he could have been punched in the throat with a blunt object as well.

If the public keeps asking questions they'll eventually have to come out with more information than they're telling now. Otherwise, they risk losing credibility and trust in the justice system..or what's left of it.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
It would seem to me that transferring the warden would be a prerequisite to a thorough investigation of the facility he was in charge of. You're making it sound like he was transferred and that's it. That isn't it. The results of the investigation will determine his fate.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't putting him on administrative leave with or without pay be the far more reasonable option, than simply transferring him out when he has almost certainly engaged in said gross incompetence/negligence?

This is what they did with the guards assigned to Epstein's cell.

Moot said:
Suffocation by strangulation is also possibility. Whats odd is they're not saying how he managed to hang himself or with what.

With several bones in his throat splintered suggests he could have been punched in the throat with a blunt object as well.

If the public keeps asking questions they'll eventually have to come out with more information than they're telling now. Otherwise, they risk losing credibility and trust in the justice system..or what's left of it.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is absolutely possible he was killed first via strangulation, or other means relating to throat trauma. I'm merely saying that it is possible for the medical examiner to be completely right, and the death to still be a homicide.
 
swing_voter said:
Sometimes the best explanation is the simplest one.
Click to expand...

What would be the simplest explanation for someone who has injuries consistent with homicide, and not a suicide?
 
Surrealistik said:
Yes, it is absolutely possible he was killed first via strangulation, or other means relating to throat trauma. I'm merely saying that it is possible for the medical examiner to be completely right, and the death to still be a homicide.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. But I think we'd need to see the forensic report for ourselves to know for sure.

Without knowing how or what he hung himself with, it still leaves it wide open for speculation.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
That aspect was a little over played. The same bones that can be broken in a strangulation can also be broken by hanging.
Click to expand...

In addition, that bone is much more easily broken the older the person , and Epstein was 66.
 
Logician Man said:
Epstein was rich and powerful. So why didn't he get away with the crimes he evidently committed ?
Click to expand...

Simple, he had incriminating information on people who were richer and more powerful.
 
Surrealistik said:
Wouldn't putting him on administrative leave with or without pay be the far more reasonable option, than simply transferring him out when he has almost certainly engaged in said gross incompetence/negligence?

This is what they did with the guards assigned to Epstein's cell.
Click to expand...

It would seem so on the surface.

I'm just saying that getting him out of the way, no matter what form that is in, would have to preclude an investigation.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You should note that Barr answers to Trump, making it sound even more ominous...
Click to expand...

I only recounted the facts. Not the partisan garbage that you would like splashed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom