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Dow plunges 600 points after bond market flashes a recession warning, Citigroup tanks 5%

Due to a career change I took all the money I'd need for a year and a half of retraining out of my stocks. I did that a little over a week ago before the DOW plummeted. Whew.

I wish I could dump out my 401K. I can't as long as I have the job. I reconfigured my investments to 50/50 stocks/Bonds. I don't think switching funds will make a dang bit of difference now unfortunately.
 
Avoiding answering the question I see. That the DNC supposedly hates the ubberwealthy and then gets their knickers in a bunch when the stock market heads down just proves my point that it is owned by Wall Street every bit as much as the RNC.

You're new around here so let me help you. :) When you make comments such as this:

The top 1%-10% got poorer today. Isn't that what your party wants?

And this:

Avoiding answering the question I see. That the DNC supposedly hates the ubberwealthy and then gets their knickers in a bunch when the stock market heads down just proves my point that it is owned by Wall Street every bit as much as the RNC.

It clearly indicates that you are not interested in a civil discussion on the topic at hand, which is today's stock market crash.

Now would you like to try again and actually address the issue, or would you like to continue with this childish deflection? ;)
 
I wish I could dump out my 401K. I can't as long as I have the job. I reconfigured my investments to 50/50 stocks/Bonds. I don't think switching funds will make a dang bit of difference now unfortunately.

I talked to my financial advisor and he didn't think bonds were any sort of safe haven now.

Whatever, I took out my money just in time. The rest of my investments are obviously going to be pounded pretty hard, but c'est la vie.
 
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You just said trade tariffs have caused the DJIA to plunge. Sounds like you actually think the WH can affect DJIA.
The moderate pace of obama's term, saw a near tripling from bottom of 09 to his leaving office in Jan 17.

I said that overall it involves more than who is in the White House, but yes there are things that a sitting president says and does which can affect the market.

Compared to how much the DJIA skyrocketed during Trump's first several years in office compared to 2016, I'd say it was a pretty moderate increase overall under Obama's 2 terms - if you want to focus on who was president.
 
Good government survives on moderation and balance. This extremism **** is getting old. Commander tanning goggles is doing nothing but pandering to a bunch of fringe lunatics and playing Russian Roulette with working Americans livelihood.
 
Absolutely wrong! Stocks are up only 29% in the Trump presidency (in a good economy); they were up 46% during the similar period of the Obama presidency (while digging out of a recession). Stocks rose 181% during Obama's tenure.

Stocks are up only 29% during Trump's presidency - CNN
Stock Market Performance by President | MacroTrends

In fact, stock market performance under Trump lags behind Reagan, Clinton and Obama, yet Trump has known nothing but a strong economy during his tenure. Reagan and Clinton each had some recession during their presidency.

Virtually all of the stock market gains occurring in the Trump presidency happened in his first year in office, when it was largely Obama momentum. Since his first year, stocks are actually down (the market was a 26,025 on 1/20/18). So, take away the first year of the Trump presidency and he has actually been very bad for your portfolios.

Here’s President Trump’s stock-market scorecard after 2 years in office - MarketWatch

We really need to start stamping out these myths about Trump.
If you are saying Obama had it easy, congratulations. Correct answer.

Somehow, that does not fit with the rest of your post. There is a lot of inconsistency there.
 
Due to a career change I took all the money I'd need for a year and a half of retraining out of my stocks. I did that a little over a week ago before the DOW plummeted. Whew.


I think you timed that just right, I think we are at the beginning of what everyone saw would even happen with trumps policies.

I was hoping that I could make a little extra cash this fall from my trapping.

I just checked recent actions and projections. Looks like the only thing worth trapping where I live will be coyotes. And we have ****ty coyotes around here, westerns will do well.

The useless trade war and the inevitable recession along with Russians sanctions have further weakened the entire industry.
 
I think you timed that just right, I think we are at the beginning of what everyone saw would even happen with trumps policies.

I was hoping that I could make a little extra cash this fall from my trapping.

I just checked recent actions and projections. Looks like the only thing worth trapping where I live will be coyotes. And we have ****ty coyotes around here, westerns will do well.

The useless trade war and the inevitable recession along with Russians sanctions have further weakened the entire industry.

Trump has been hammering away at anything that could buttress the confidence of the market nonstop for two and a half years. The fact that it took this long for him to finally succeed in manufacturing a recession is testament to how strong the market already was when he took office.
 
I talked to my financial advisor and he didn't think bonds were any sort of safe haven now. Whatever, I took out my money just in time. The rest of my investments are obviously going to be pounded pretty hard, but c'est la vie.

Right. Bonds go down in rising interest rates. Utilities make more sense. People will still need water and power.

All that said, market corrections are called corrections for a reason. They are not fun, but they put things where things should be. Remember that the 1987 crash--well over 20% in one day--was really just a correction. The market gained it all back by New Year.
 
Dow plunges 600 points after bond market flashes a recession warning When Trump was elected, I said that the only thing that would turn his base against him was a full on recession. Today I don't think that would even do it. Most of his base are either retired living off their pensions, SS, fixed incomes with no skin in the game, so they don't care if the US economy tanks. Trump is nothing more than entertainment value to them . Then there's those that may be working but they have no retirement investment savings. They've no idea what a 401k is and you cant lose what you don't have. Under Obama my IRA grew exponentially. The economy was even keeled and smooth. Since senor' clown car has been in office, my 401k value is where it was 28 months ago. This asshole playing president is not good for the working man and his financial future.
I agree that the die-hard Trump specific demographics that you describe will never come around to reality. Fear & hate are dominate hierarchical psychological motivators, and easily over-ride an individual's sense and sensibilities.

But I fully & strongly believe that if we go into a Trump recession, as we did with the Bush recession, we will see a Democrat behind the Resolute Desk come JAN '21. The hardcore Trumpers won't care, but the rest of the country will.

And you are right, and I've been preaching this for what seems forever: Trump took a steady growing economy & markets, rode it for another year, while needlessly juicing it with a tax-cut sugar high. But after the first year, his asinine economic policies came to bear causing no growth in the markets for nearly two years, and now we've reverted to a falling GDP & economy.

But the worse problem now, one in which Trump contributed greatly that he & the Fed may not be able to arrest, is the falling global economy. Trade wars & currency wars, when involving the world's two largest economic superpowers, have global consequence.

On top of Trump's inherent domestic and economic problems, his future is now tied to Xi Jingping's actions & desires. Trump capitulated in his trade war yesterday, showing Xi that he is at his limit of economic pain. It's going to be interesting to see how Xi reacts, but he (Xi) is clearly in the driver's seat.

The inverted yield curve is thought to be a highly reliable indicator. But nothing is absolute, each economic environment has its own specific peculiarities, and it remains to be seen if the curve continues to invert, or whether it will revert back positive.

But it is starting to look like we are continuing the usual historical pattern of a Dems handing the Repubs a great economy, the Repubs crashing it, and the Dems then inheriting the Repub's mess & straightening it out, only to have the pattern repeat again when the Repubs come back to power.

Why anyone would put Republicans in charge of the economy (or anything else!), is beyond me.

(Geez, just checked - Dow 700+ pts down)
 
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Not sure the yield inversion is really that big an indicator these days. I have suspected for a while now that we are probably in a new variant of the liquidity trap. Just instead of people holding their extra money in the bank, they are using it to service debt.

fredgraph.png


The data tells a much different story.
 
Trump has been hammering away at anything that could buttress the confidence of the market nonstop for two and a half years. The fact that it took this long for him to finally succeed in manufacturing a recession is testament to how strong the market already was when he took office.

And I'd bet the entire balance of my retirement portfolio that in the background his shills are buying up stocks for him, he recants, tweets, Market shares go go up and he makes billions.
 
They will somehow spin this to being the Dems in congress fault.

Funny you say that. I just went to lunch with a hardcore trump supporter at work and rode together in his truck. I **** you not that Rush Limbaugh is currently trying to explain that all the lefties in the financial sector are putting out all of this news to try to ruin the economy so that they can blame Trump and make him lose the election. He's putting all the blame on the fed chair and the lefties on wall street.

I mean, I know Limbaugh is a ****ing moron. I used to work in a bullpen type office and people would play him at work and I could hear his rants. So I'm well aware of the kind of incredibly stupid **** that comes out of his mouth. But it's like he's not even trying to tie his conspiracy theories to anything in reality. Wallstreet is nothing but lefties? They would/could wreck the economy and the stock market on purpose just to **** trump over? This is the kind of crap that's spewed by the most listened to right wing pundit in the country? Amazing.
 
No not really

Interest payments are less than 2% of personal income. What you've claimed cannot be supported by evidence.
 
Interest payments are less than 2% of personal income. What you've claimed cannot be supported by evidence.

Debt service does not require people pay extra interest :doh
 
The top 1%-10% got poorer today. Isn't that what your party wants?


No they didn't, they may have bought a little today but they will wait for the real crash to buy, and then a Democrat will come into office and repair the Economy and the top 1% will cash in.

You really don't recognize the continuous cycle???
 
The top 1%-10% got poorer today. Isn't that what your party wants?

Um...no, that's not how it works. What they have the luxury of doing is buying more stocks whenever the market crashes. For us little people, stock market crashes can be utterly destructive to our total net worth. For the top 1-10%, market crashes are how they amass even more wealth.

And even if they are "poorer," so what? That means that the top 1% might only be worth $45 million instead of $50 million. Trust me, they can ride this out.
 
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Not sure which Obama presidency you're referring to but the DJIA increased at a moderate pace during his 2 terms and then accelerated after Trump was elected. This was mainly because investors were more confident in a Trump presidency. At the same time, Trump's trade tariff threats have caused the DJIA to plunge downward.

All in all we can't really blame or credit a sitting president for how the market performs and how much a person's retirement savings is worth. It involves much more than who is in the White House.
That's fair too a point, but a President's economic policies do indeed come into strong play, as can be seen by what Trump's tariff taxes are doing to our and the global economy.
 
Debt service does not require people pay extra interest :doh

Once again, your claims cannot be supported by evidence. It's why you've yet to produce anything that would substantiate your claim.
 
Do you think the market will fall to 19,000 when the economic genius Obama left office?
 
No they didn't, they may have bought a little today but they will wait for the real crash to buy, and then a Democrat will come into office and repair the Economy and the top 1% will cash in.

You really don't recognize the continuous cycle???

I recognize that M2 velocity has slowed down dramatically. I recognize that tax cuts did not stimulate the economy. I recognize that interest rate cuts haven't stimulated the economy, with mortgage interest having become unhinged from fed rates for going on close to a year. And the next piece of the puzzle has been the yield inversion, which is not new to today. The democrats aren't going to fix anything. All this idle cash will build up pressure and create the explosive growth that will come out of today's situation because of Trump's trade war, not in spite of it. Reducing trade deficits is a set up for down the road growth. Sure the democrats will take credit for it, but these trade wars didn't get going until after the deficit spending and tax cuts didn't create any meaningful growth. Classic liquidity trap stuff going on here. It is the byproduct of extending QE far too long and injecting to much money into the system.
 
Um...no, that's not how it works. What they have the luxury of doing is buying more stocks whenever the market crashes. For us little people, stock market crashes can be utterly destructive to our total net worth. For the top 1-10%, market crashes are how they get even richer.

And even if they are "poorer," so what? That means that the top 1% might only be worth $45 million instead of $50 million. Trust me, they can ride this out.

Ubber wealthy people generally don't do a lot of buying and selling. They live off the cash generated by holding.
 
Once again, your claims cannot be supported by evidence. It's why you've yet to produce anything that would substantiate your claim.

When are you going to produce something that refutes my claim. Your same source tracks money supply velocity and I notice you ignored that one.
 
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