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FBI investigating shots fired at ICE offices in San Antonio

Phys251 said:
Good morning, nota. Would you like to be the next contestant on today's Strawman Game?
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You said, "The "illegal" slur is designed to do precisely that." I responded directly to your calling this term a slur. Maybe you should look up "strawman"?
 
nota bene said:
You said, "The "illegal" slur is designed to do precisely that." I responded directly to your calling this term a slur. Maybe you should look up "strawman"?
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You inserted a weasel word. You went back from "illegal" as a noun to "illegal alien," with illegal as an adjective.

Show me EXACTLY where I said that "illegal alien," NOT "illegal" in the noun form, was a slur. :)
 
Phys251 said:
You inserted a weasel word. You went back from "illegal" as a noun to "illegal alien," with illegal as an adjective.

Show me EXACTLY where I said that "illegal alien," NOT "illegal" in the noun form, was a slur. :)
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Oh, I do beg your pardon. And what, exactly, is your issue with the word "illegal"? How is "illegal" a slur, and how does it lead to genocide?
 
nota bene said:
Oh, I do beg your pardon. And what, exactly, is your issue with the word "illegal"? How is "illegal" a slur, and how does it lead to genocide?
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And now you're dodging my last point. Were you able to show exactly where I said that "illegal alien" was a slur?
 
Phys251 said:
The path to genocide never, ever goes straight from normalcy and acceptance to mass slaughter. There is always a pathway. Grouping people is a very early stage, and it is debatable whether simply self-grouping puts us on the path. But it is not debatable whether dehumanization does. The "illegal" slur is designed to do precisely that. The awful thing is that Trump has taken us much farther than Stage 4 against undocumented migrants from the south.
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That may, or may not, be the case for the improper usage of "illegal" as a noun. Many confuse (interchange?) the words "criminal" and "illegal" - that confusion may also lead to use of "illegal" as a noun (since criminal can be properly used as both a noun and an adjective).
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That may, or may not, be the case for the improper usage of "illegal" as a noun. Many confuse (interchange?) the words "criminal" and "illegal" - that confusion may also lead to use of "illegal" as a noun (since criminal can be properly used as both a noun and an adjective).
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There's a big difference between slapping someone with the label of having committed a crime and with the label of literally being illegal. Whether or not the intent is to do that is irrelevant.
 
Phys251 said:
There's a big difference between slapping someone with the label of having committed a crime and with the label of literally being illegal. Whether or not the intent is to do that is irrelevant.
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Illegal is valid when used as an immigration status. Immigration status is applicable to immigrants (which are people).
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Illegal is valid when used as an immigration status. Immigration status is applicable to immigrants (which are people).
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My point sailed right over your head.
 
Phys251 said:
My point sailed right over your head.
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That feeling is mutual. Defining people by their status or characteristics (e.g. whites, Hispanics or blacks) is a common practice and is not limited to or indicative of those with evil intent.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That feeling is mutual. Defining people by their status or characteristics (e.g. whites, Hispanics or blacks) is a common practice and is not limited to or indicative of those with evil intent.
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There's more to the story than that.
 
Phys251 said:
There's more to the story than that.
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Perhaps, yet you do not equally condemn using labels to describe people (as part of some story) and elect to pick and choose when evil intent is implied by doing so.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Perhaps, yet you do not equally condemn using labels to describe people (as part of some story) and elect to pick and choose when evil intent is implied by doing so.
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I'm sorry, did you have a point here, or do you simply have a bone to pick?
 
Atomic Kid said:
I didn't call you any of those things. (not that I would've been wrong). I don't see you debating or offering solutions to anything in here. All I see you doing here is running around dealing out ad-homs and race cards.
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You haven't been paying attention then. This is from my post #123 on the ICE raid thread:" If the employer used E-verify to check the backgrounds of the illegals that were hired, not a lot one can do when there are stolen ID's and forged documents used. Either way, huge deterrent for illegal immigration.

COMMENT: If it can be proven that the employer knowingly hired illegal aliens, perhaps incarceration and $20,000 fine for every illegal they hired, would be a deterrent to employers hiring illegals. Just a thought."
I believe that a 2 prong approach, making the consequences of both illegally entering the US, and knowingly hiring an illegal alien. I would think you'd like the idea of incarcerating and fining wealthy white men. No?
 
Phys251 said:
Good, you are shifting away from the slur. And you didn't answer my question.
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How can I make it any clearer? AGAIN, if one enters the US ILLEGALLY, then he/she, regardless of race/color/religion, is an ILLEGALL ALIEN. It addresses their immigration status. NOT THEIR RACE.
illegal alien
[illegal alien]

NOUN
US
a foreign national who is living without official authorization in a country of which they are not a citizen.

What defines illegal immigration?

Illegal immigration. Jump to navigation Jump to search. Illegal immigration refers to the migration of people into a country in ways that violate the immigration laws of that country, or the remaining in a country of people who no longer have the legal right to remain.

What is an undocumented alien?

An alien is a person who comes from a foreign country. The term illegal alien is accurate because it includes undocumented aliens and nonimmigrant visa overstayers. An undocumented alien is an individual who has entered the U.S. illegally, without entry documentation.


illegal alien[ ih-lee-guh l eyl-yuh n, ey-lee-uh n ]SHOW IPA
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR illegal alien ON THESAURUS.COM

noun Often Disparaging and Offensive.
a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.Compare resident alien.
Synonyms for illegal alien
day-crosser
illegal immigrant
undocumented immigrant

So there you have it. Everything you need to know about the term "illegal alien". Synonyms and all. It even says "often disparaging and offensive", but you will notice it doesn't refer to race or "brown skinned people" at all. That is your own inference. And notice it doesn't specify a country by name. An American that illegally enters Mexico would be an "illegal alien". Perhaps you could use a little self examination on how you view certain people.;)
 
mrdeltoid said:
How can I make it any clearer? AGAIN, if one enters the US ILLEGALLY, then he/she, regardless of race/color/religion, is an ILLEGALL ALIEN. It addresses their immigration status. NOT THEIR RACE.
illegal alien
[illegal alien]

NOUN
US
a foreign national who is living without official authorization in a country of which they are not a citizen.

What defines illegal immigration?

Illegal immigration. Jump to navigation Jump to search. Illegal immigration refers to the migration of people into a country in ways that violate the immigration laws of that country, or the remaining in a country of people who no longer have the legal right to remain.

What is an undocumented alien?

An alien is a person who comes from a foreign country. The term illegal alien is accurate because it includes undocumented aliens and nonimmigrant visa overstayers. An undocumented alien is an individual who has entered the U.S. illegally, without entry documentation.


illegal alien[ ih-lee-guh l eyl-yuh n, ey-lee-uh n ]SHOW IPA
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR illegal alien ON THESAURUS.COM

noun Often Disparaging and Offensive.
a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.Compare resident alien.
Synonyms for illegal alien
day-crosser
illegal immigrant
undocumented immigrant

So there you have it. Everything you need to know about the term "illegal alien". Synonyms and all. It even says "often disparaging and offensive", but you will notice it doesn't refer to race or "brown skinned people" at all. That is your own inference. And notice it doesn't specify a country by name. An American that illegally enters Mexico would be an "illegal alien". Perhaps you could use a little self examination on how you view certain people.;)
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You are deliberately and intentionally dodging the point I repeatedly have made in this thread, which is that calling another human being an "illegal" is a slur, regardless of what they have done.

I have been clear as crystal on this very simple point. I am not the one to blame if you refuse to understand it. :)
 
joko104 said:
Another example of leftwing progressive fascist domestic terrorism and criminal insurrection.
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Fascism and leftist/progressives are political opposites. Fascism is a far-right authoritarian capatalist idea.

These 14 points are the defining ideas of fascism. None of them are liberal, leftist or progressive.

The 14 points of Fascism
 
Phys251 said:
You are deliberately and intentionally dodging the point I repeatedly have made in this thread, which is that calling another human being an "illegal" is a slur, regardless of what they have done.
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I'm curious. Upon what do you base your opinion that it's a slur?
 
Phys251 said:
Supporters of fascism tend to use "illegal" as a noun to dehumanize people who are here without proper documentation. This is a necessary step for their intentions to oppress a group of people, as we do not mistreat people whom we consider to be value. But by calling a group of people a literal violation of the law, they dehumanize them. History shows what would happen next.
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Interesting defense:

But, I rather doubt it would work in another country's court of law if you were caught illegally living in that country without official authorization. Because...

If, You or I as foreign nationals (U.S. citizens} were living without official authorization in another country of which we were not citizens > we would be illegal aliens.

And we would rightly be subject to any of that countries laws concerning how they deal with that infraction.

Roseann:)
 
Phys251 said:
If it had just been derogatory comments by the President of the United States, that would have been a problem in its own right. But he took things much, much further than that. In his concentration camps, this is what he did to them:

Their property is often expropriated. Sometimes they are even segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. They are deliberately deprived of resources such as water or food in order to slowly destroy them.​

That's from Stage 8--persecution--the final stage before mass killing.
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Do you have any legitimate proof of your accusations? Investigative News Reporters Photos or their news articles or TV reports?

What kind of property? Where are these ghettos? What concentration camps and where are they? Name the famine-struck regions where they are being starved. Where is that happening?

Do you have any idea what real concentration camps looked like or the atrocities that happened there?

60 Top Concentration Camp Pictures, Photos, & Images - Getty Images
 
Phys251 said:
There's a big difference between slapping someone with the label of having committed a crime and with the label of literally being illegal. Whether or not the intent is to do that is irrelevant.
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Don't want to be slapped with a label and be subject to deportation... Follow the law and become a Permanent Resident Alien.

Definition of Terms | Homeland Security

Immigrant - See Permanent Resident Alien.

Definition of Terms | Homeland Security

Permanent Resident Alien - An alien admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident. Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants; however, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant under the INA but is not a permanent resident alien. Lawful permanent residents are legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States. They may be issued immigrant visas by the Department of State overseas or adjusted to permanent resident status by the Department of Homeland Security in the United States.

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
Do you have any legitimate proof of your accusations? Investigative News Reporters Photos or their news articles or TV reports?

What kind of property? Where are these ghettos? What concentration camps and where are they? Name the famine-struck regions where they are being starved. Where is that happening?

Do you have any idea what real concentration camps looked like or the atrocities that happened there?

60 Top Concentration Camp Pictures, Photos, & Images - Getty Images
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Please try not to hurt yourself with feigned outrage. It isn't a good look for you. :)

Instead, let's stick to the facts.

Their property is often expropriated.
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Are Rosaries Being Taken from Immigrants at the U.S.-Mexico Border?

Sometimes they are even segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved.
Click to expand...

This has already been established. Concentration camp | Definition of Concentration camp at Dictionary.com

They are deliberately deprived of resources such as water or food in order to slowly destroy them.
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Trump Administration Argues Detained Migrant Children Don't Need Toothbrushes, Soap
What we know about the immigrant children being detained separately from their parents - ABC News

Now would you like to spew any more manufactured outrage or would you like to actually address these facts that have been clearly presented to you? :)
 
Phys251 said:
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You are deliberately and intentionally dodging the point I repeatedly have made in this thread, which is that calling another human being an "illegal" is a slur, regardless of what they have done.

I have been clear as crystal on this very simple point. I am not the one to blame if you refuse to understand it. :)
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YOU, injected race. These are YOUR words: The Rethuglican party has caused the term "illegal" to be an acceptable slur for any brown-skinned person who commits the misdemeanor of being in our country without proper documentation. Instead of saying "Trump is dehumanizing desperate people who are seeking a better life," they label them with that slur. It's been an open way of pushing a false narrative.

Don't try to act like you didn't inject race into the issue. You obviously did, unless you have a different understanding of the meaning of "brown skinned people."
 
Phys251 said:
Please try not to hurt yourself with feigned outrage. It isn't a good look for you. :)

Instead, let's stick to the facts.



Are Rosaries Being Taken from Immigrants at the U.S.-Mexico Border?



This has already been established. Concentration camp | Definition of Concentration camp at Dictionary.com



Trump Administration Argues Detained Migrant Children Don't Need Toothbrushes, Soap
What we know about the immigrant children being detained separately from their parents - ABC News

Now would you like to spew any more manufactured outrage or would you like to actually address these facts that have been clearly presented to you? :)
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No need to fret that I may hurt myself since there is no outrage feigned or otherwise. FYI... My look is naturally always calm and collected.

I just see a big difference that you don't seem to see when you used your talking point via your use of the words "concentration camps" to make the two situations equivalent.

They are factually called detention centers not concentration camps.

But, I do understand your need to use a talking point to support your point of view.

detention centre - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

a large cell where prisoners (people awaiting trial or sentence or refugees or illegal immigrants) are confined together temporarily

NOTE: No mention of Nazi's in this definition.

The U.S.is not the only Country to use detention centers.

https://www.globaldetentionproject.org/category/publications/country-detention-reports

Interesting photographer Thomas Kiefer, who used to work as a janitor for Customs and Border Protection (CBP) in Ajo, Arizona...

Gallery was published along with a 12 March 2017 story in The New Yorker.

After using the pics of the belongings of those immigrants he said he gathered from the trash in his gallery photos used in the New Yorker along with his story.

Did he a least try to return the wallets, and other personal items the immigrants might have wanted returned to them had they known that they were retrieved, cleaned and used by a photographer for an article in the New Yorker? Did he keep them? Did he trash them again? I'm curious what happened to the belongings when he was done using them for his gallery and story in the New Yorker. I wonder, how much he was paid by the New Yorker?

Note: No gallery pics of the trash receptacles filled with the immigrants belongings (as proof) before he allegedly retrieved them and then cleaned them up for his photographic gallery used in the New Yorker article.

I just asked for proof of your talking points.

Perhaps, you are the one spewing manufactured outrage and not facts?

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
No need to fret that I may hurt myself since there is no outrage feigned or otherwise. FYI... My look is naturally always calm and collected.

I just see a big difference that you don't seem to see when you used your talking point via your use of the words "concentration camps" to make the two situations equivalent.

They are factually called detention centers not concentration camps.

But, I do understand your need to use a talking point to support your point of view.

detention centre - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

a large cell where prisoners (people awaiting trial or sentence or refugees or illegal immigrants) are confined together temporarily

NOTE: No mention of Nazi's in this definition.

The U.S.is not the only Country to use detention centers.

Country Detention Reports Archives - Global Detention Project | Mapping immigration detention around the world | Global Detention Project | Mapping immigration detention around the world

Interesting photographer Thomas Kiefer, who used to work as a janitor for Customs and Border Protection (CBP) in Ajo, Arizona...

Gallery was published along with a 12 March 2017 story in The New Yorker.

After using the pics of the belongings of those immigrants he said he gathered from the trash in his gallery photos used in the New Yorker along with his story.

Did he a least try to return the wallets, and other personal items the immigrants might have wanted returned to them had they known that they were retrieved, cleaned and used by a photographer for an article in the New Yorker? Did he keep them? Did he trash them again? I'm curious what happened to the belongings when he was done using them for his gallery and story in the New Yorker. I wonder, how much he was paid by the New Yorker?

Note: No gallery pics of the trash receptacles filled with the immigrants belongings (as proof) before he allegedly retrieved them and then cleaned them up for his photographic gallery used in the New Yorker article.

I just asked for proof of your talking points.

Perhaps, you are the one spewing manufactured outrage and not facts?

Roseann:)
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Merriam Webster defines "detention center" as detention center noun
Definition of detention center
1 : a place where people who have entered a country illegally are kept for a period of time
2 : a place where people who have committed crimes are kept as punishment

What crimes have these children and their families committed? Also the term implies that those being held for any 'crimes' are there to await the legal processing of their alleged offenses within a reasonable and predetermined period of time. If that has been changed to an indefinite period of time with no promise of due process, a speedy trial or any legal resolution. You have essentially turned them into "internment camps"

To quote you your own cited source "Vocabulary.com". It describes "internment" thusly.

"Internment means putting a person in prison or other kind of detention, generally in wartime. During World War II, the American government put Japanese-Americans in internment camps, fearing they might be loyal to Japan.

Internment usually doesn’t involve a trial, so you're being held because someone thinks you might be dangerous, but there’s no proof. The internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II is now widely considered to have been a terrible mistake, in that the citizens who were detained — some for as long as four years — were not traitors, but loyal Americans, and their internment caused them considerable emotional and economic hardship. Internment comes from the Latin internus, “inward.”

Are we now at war with Western Southern Hemisphere?
 
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