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Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934’

TU Curmudgeon

TU Curmudgeon

B.A. (Sarc), LLb. (Lex Sarcasus), PhD (Sarc.)
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From The Washington Post

Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934’
​

Pope Francis called for a united Europe in an interview published by Italian daily La Stampa on Friday, saying recent political rhetoric has echoed that of Nazi Germany.

“I am concerned because we hear speeches that resemble those of Hitler in 1934,” he said. “ 'Us first. We … We … ’ These are frightening thoughts.”

It is not the first time the pontiff has made such remarks, but his comments published Friday came as Italy’s populist government appeared to be on the verge of collapse.

On Thursday, Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini, the most powerful politician in Italy, called for parliament to be dissolved and asked President Sergio Mattarella to order snap elections that could make Italy’s government lean even further right.

COMMENT:-

A quick slap on the WaPo wrist for its "click bait" headline.

You have to read a bit further to see that what Pope Francis was referring to were the speeches of an Italian politician whose speeches "echo" the words and positions of Mr. Trump and NOT to the words and positions of Mr. Trump at all.

After all, there is no logical way to conclude that, just because "A" is echoing BOTH "B" and "C" that means that "B" and "C" are even remotely reflective of each other - right?
​
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From The Washington Post

Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934’
​

Pope Francis called for a united Europe in an interview published by Italian daily La Stampa on Friday, saying recent political rhetoric has echoed that of Nazi Germany.

“I am concerned because we hear speeches that resemble those of Hitler in 1934,” he said. “ 'Us first. We … We … ’ These are frightening thoughts.”

It is not the first time the pontiff has made such remarks, but his comments published Friday came as Italy’s populist government appeared to be on the verge of collapse.

On Thursday, Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini, the most powerful politician in Italy, called for parliament to be dissolved and asked President Sergio Mattarella to order snap elections that could make Italy’s government lean even further right.

COMMENT:-

A quick slap on the WaPo wrist for its "click bait" headline.

You have to read a bit further to see that what Pope Francis was referring to were the speeches of an Italian politician whose speeches "echo" the words and positions of Mr. Trump and NOT to the words and positions of Mr. Trump at all.

After all, there is no logical way to conclude that, just because "A" is echoing BOTH "B" and "C" that means that "B" and "C" are even remotely reflective of each other - right?
​
Click to expand...

Speak that truth to power Pope Francis!
 
One mortal man should not have so much power...
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From The Washington Post

Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934’
​

Pope Francis called for a united Europe in an interview published by Italian daily La Stampa on Friday, saying recent political rhetoric has echoed that of Nazi Germany.

“I am concerned because we hear speeches that resemble those of Hitler in 1934,” he said. “ 'Us first. We … We … ’ These are frightening thoughts.”

It is not the first time the pontiff has made such remarks, but his comments published Friday came as Italy’s populist government appeared to be on the verge of collapse.

On Thursday, Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini, the most powerful politician in Italy, called for parliament to be dissolved and asked President Sergio Mattarella to order snap elections that could make Italy’s government lean even further right.

COMMENT:-

A quick slap on the WaPo wrist for its "click bait" headline.

You have to read a bit further to see that what Pope Francis was referring to were the speeches of an Italian politician whose speeches "echo" the words and positions of Mr. Trump and NOT to the words and positions of Mr. Trump at all.

After all, there is no logical way to conclude that, just because "A" is echoing BOTH "B" and "C" that means that "B" and "C" are even remotely reflective of each other - right?
​
Click to expand...



I think very well of the Pope when he says stuff like this. But that is my occasional respect, momentary. I lost continuing respect for him for the way he handled pedophile priests. He should have warned children against pedophile priests. That would have been on-topic for the time in history.
 
The political left, which hates Christianity, now luvs the Pope.
 
aociswundumho said:
The political left, which hates Christianity, now luvs the Pope.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm always entertained when people who support abortion up through birth and agreed with Obama when he called Christians, "bitter bible clingers" will give props to the Pope when he seems to dog whistle to their globalist, socialist agenda.
 
Elvira said:
One mortal man should not have so much power...
Click to expand...

"How many divisions does the Pope have?" (variously attributed to Josef Stalin, Otto von Bismark, and Napoleon Bonaparte).

PS - It appears that the "Napoleon Version" arose from Napoleon's documented response of "And how am I to treat him? Am I to treat him as though he has 200,000 men?” as reported in Alfred Vandal's "L’avenement de Bonaparte", Vol II, p. 470 [HACHETTBNF (Feb. 28 2018 ed. {Original pub. 1907}) - ISBN-10: 2012475132 / ISBN-13: 978-2012475137. Vandal lived from 1853 to 1910
 
JustHanging said:
No ****, Sherlock.
Click to expand...

And I presume that your comment means that you think that the Pope did NOT say what the Washington Post reported him as saying (basing that opinion on the "fact" that absolutely nothing that is reported in the Washington Post is true) - right.

PS - Since the Washington Post reported that Donald John Trump was elected to the office of President of the United States of America I have to conclude that you DO NOT think that Mr. Trump is actually the President of the United States of America and I would be most grateful if you would tell me who you DO think is the President of the United States of America.
 
aociswundumho said:
The political left, which hates Christianity,...
Click to expand...

Really?

Do you honestly think that Jesus would have "voted Republican" in 2016?

[ASIDE - I am of the personal opinion that he would have been sickened to see the quality of candidates put forward by BOTH "The MORE Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party" AND "The LESS Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party".]


aociswundumho said:
... now luvs the Pope.
Click to expand...

Really?

How is reporting that The Pope is (VERY belatedly in my opinion) finally taking a (very tentative and almost non-committal) stand against "The Ignorant Right" exhibiting "luv" for The Pope?
 
Last edited:
Acadia said:
Yup. I'm always entertained when people who support abortion up through birth and agreed with Obama when he called Christians, "bitter bible clingers" ...
Click to expand...

There are, in fact, some "Christians" (well, "self-described Christians" at any rate who ARE "bitter Bible clingers". Of course there are, in fact, some "Jews" (well, "self-described Jews" at any rate who ARE "bitter Torah clingers". Of course there are, in fact, some "Muslims" (well, "self-described Muslims" at any rate who ARE "bitter Qu'ran clingers". Of course there ...

Acadia said:
... will give props to the Pope when he seems to dog whistle to their globalist, socialist agenda.
Click to expand...

Does that mean that you are in favour of the establishment of right-wing ("fascist") police state governments wherein the "lower orders" are expunged (whether by expulsion or through "more permanent means")?

Is that the basis for your rejection of The Pope's call to avoid "extreme right-wing" politics?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Do you honestly think that Jesus would have "voted Republican" in 2016?
Click to expand...

I don't know. Is the idea here that Democrats are more virtuous because they tend to spend other people's money more freely than Republicans?
 
aociswundumho said:
The political left, which hates Christianity, now luvs the Pope.
Click to expand...

I'm politically left. I'm a Christian. And I love the Pope. He speaks Biblical truth. All mankind is made in the image of God, so there is no such thing as an inferior race or inferior people. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth".
 
aociswundumho said:
I don't know.
Click to expand...

I suspect that that is applicable in many other instances as well.

aociswundumho said:
Is the idea here that Democrats are more virtuous because they tend to spend other people's money more freely than Republicans?
Click to expand...

Not really. Of course, someone who has adopted a "NetNik" like yours would tend to think so.

The question is more along the lines of "Do you think that Jesus would vote for someone of the same moral character, lack of ethics, and degree of bigotry that Mr. Trump has exhibited?". I can see why that question would be incredibly difficult for you to answer.
 
Media_Truth said:
I'm politically left.
Click to expand...

That I have yet to determine.

Media_Truth said:
I'm a Christian.
Click to expand...

So were Jim Jones, Miroslav Filipović, András Kun, Konstantinas Olšauskas, Hans B. Schmidt, Christian Federico von Wernich, Albert Fish, David Berkowitz, Dennis Rader, Gary Ridgway, Dr Harold Shipman, Janie Lou Gibbs, John Wayne Gacy, John Bodkin Adams, John Reginald Christie, Judy Buenoano, Lee Boyd Malvo, Peter Manuel, , Peter Tobin, Ted Bundy, Timothy McVeigh, and Torquemada.

Simply saying "I'm a Christian." is no real indication that someone actually follows Christ's teachings.

Media_Truth said:
And I love the Pope.
Click to expand...

Not required to be either a "Christian" or a "Catholic".

Media_Truth said:
He speaks Biblical truth.
Click to expand...

Which is different from "Real Truth"?

Media_Truth said:
All mankind is made in the image of God, ...
Click to expand...

So say many religions other than Christianity".

Media_Truth said:
...so there is no such thing as an inferior race or inferior people.
Click to expand...

Judging by your "NetNik" it wouldn't be overly safe to conclude that the omission of "gender" or "followers of political ideologies" was accidental.

Media_Truth said:
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth".
Click to expand...

That's what the powerful and assertive like to have you believe. Of course it's also a truncated "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth (after we have taken everything that we want and simply couldn't care less what happens to it).".
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Really?

Do you honestly think that Jesus would have "voted Republican" in 2016?
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think that Jesus would have voted for any man or woman in any election, when while Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples advocated God's kingdom? In fact, God's kingdom was the theme, or central point, of the good news during Jesus’ earthly ministry...Matthew 4:17; 10:7
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
That I have yet to determine.

So were Jim Jones, Miroslav Filipović, András Kun, Konstantinas Olšauskas, Hans B. Schmidt, Christian Federico von Wernich, Albert Fish, David Berkowitz, Dennis Rader, Gary Ridgway, Dr Harold Shipman, Janie Lou Gibbs, John Wayne Gacy, John Bodkin Adams, John Reginald Christie, Judy Buenoano, Lee Boyd Malvo, Peter Manuel, , Peter Tobin, Ted Bundy, Timothy McVeigh, and Torquemada.

Simply saying "I'm a Christian." is no real indication that someone actually follows Christ's teachings.

Not required to be either a "Christian" or a "Catholic".

Which is different from "Real Truth"?

So say many religions other than Christianity".

Judging by your "NetNik" it wouldn't be overly safe to conclude that the omission of "gender" or "followers of political ideologies" was accidental.

That's what the powerful and assertive like to have you believe. Of course it's also a truncated "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth (after we have taken everything that we want and simply couldn't care less what happens to it).".
Click to expand...

Yor pretend to have answers for everything. I admit that I don't have the answers. I admit that I am a sinner, who cannot possibly live the life of Christ.
 
Elvira said:
Do you honestly think that Jesus would have voted for any man or woman in any election, when while Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples advocated God's kingdom? In fact, God's kingdom was the theme, or central point, of the good news during Jesus’ earthly ministry...Matthew 4:17; 10:7
Click to expand...

Based on

Matthew 22:21 "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."
​

yes, I do think that "Jesus would have voted for any man or woman in any election" (which, of course, presupposes that the Roman Empire would have allowed Jesus to vote at all).

Thank you for proving that the only analogy that a "Real True Christian" can understand is one that is specifically spelled out in "The Bible" (which, since "The Bible" is the literal "Word of God" means that it isn't an analogy at all but is **R*E*A*L**).

Your scholarship to "Billy Bob's Uniquely Right (wing) Christian -Thal- -Theu- -Thalu- -Thealug- Bible and Divinity School" [a wholly owned subsidiary of Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to." (along with your "Honourary Parishioner" of "Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to.") will be arriving in the mail shortly.
 
Media_Truth said:
Yor pretend to have answers for everything.
Click to expand...

Nope, only responses to stupidly false positions.

Media_Truth said:
I admit that I don't have the answers. I admit that I am a sinner, who cannot possibly live the life of Christ.
Click to expand...

Good for you.

Unfortunately squatting down on your haunches and bemoaning the fact that you will never "achieve perfection" does not relieve one of the obligation to see how close one can get.

PS - I do so love the phrase "the life of Christ" since the people who use it are so very seldom capable of actually describing the actual life style that Jesus lived (to say nothing of the fact that "Christ" was NOT Yeshua bar Yosef bin Nazaret's name at all).
 
Re: Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934’

TU Curmudgeon said:
Based on

Matthew 22:21 "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."
​

yes, I do think that "Jesus would have voted for any man or woman in any election" (which, of course, presupposes that the Roman Empire would have allowed Jesus to vote at all).

Thank you for proving that the only analogy that a "Real True Christian" can understand is one that is specifically spelled out in "The Bible" (which, since "The Bible" is the literal "Word of God" means that it isn't an analogy at all but is **R*E*A*L**).

Your scholarship to "Billy Bob's Uniquely Right (wing) Christian -Thal- -Theu- -Thalu- -Thealug- Bible and Divinity School" [a wholly owned subsidiary of Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to." (along with your "Honourary Parishioner" of "Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to.") will be arriving in the mail shortly.
Click to expand...

Yours is laughable and ignorant of the scriptures, at best so stop your rambling and stick to the subject at hand...

Jesus words mention nothing about voting or supporting any earthly government...quite the contrary...Caesar minted the coins, so he had a right to ask for some of them back but Caesar did not have the right to ask a person to dedicate or devote his life to him...God gave humans “life and breath and all things" so a person can “give back” his life and devotion only to God, the one who has the right to require exclusive devotion...Acts 17:25

Paul's words in Romans do not even suggest voting or supporting any earthly government, as well..."existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God"...that is, by God’s permission...God allows the secular governments to have “relative” positions of authority, greater or lesser in relation to one another, but always inferior to his own supreme authority as Sovereign of the universe....understanding the use of the Greek word is paramount to understanding what Paul was truly saying...

The Greek word tasʹso used here is defined in various lexicons as “to bring about an order of things by arranging; to put in place; to draw up in order; to set in a certain order; to appoint.” The term is rendered “arranged” in some contexts. (Mt 28:16; Ac 15:2; 28:23) At Lu 7:8, Luke uses the same Greek word when rendering an army officer’s words: “I too am a man placed [form of tasʹso] under authority [form of e·xou·siʹa, the same word rendered “authority; authorities” at Ro 13:1-3], having soldiers under me.” This army officer had someone placed over him, and he had “soldiers under” him; so his “authority” was relative in relation to others. This indicates that the Greek word tasʹso does not always simply mean “to put in place.” It can also refer to a certain order in which someone is placed in relation to others. Many translations of Ro 13:1 use such expressions as “ordained of God” or “instituted (established; appointed) by God,” which might give the impression that God is ultimately responsible for installing secular rulers. However, based on the meaning of the Greek word, the immediate context, and what the Bible teaches elsewhere (Pr 21:1; Ec 5:8; Da 4:32; Joh 19:11),
Click to expand...

Romans 13 — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
Elvira said:
Do you honestly think that Jesus would have voted for any man or woman in any election, when while Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples advocated God's kingdom? In fact, God's kingdom was the theme, or central point, of the good news during Jesus’ earthly ministry...Matthew 4:17; 10:7
Click to expand...

So, that's a no.
 
Re: Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934â

Elvira said:
Yours is laughable and ignorant of the scriptures, at best so stop your rambling and stick to the subject at hand...

Jesus words mention nothing about voting or supporting any earthly government...quite the contrary...Caesar minted the coins, so he had a right to ask for some of them back but Caesar did not have the right to ask a person to dedicate or devote his life to him...God gave humans “life and breath and all things" so a person can “give back” his life and devotion only to God, the one who has the right to require exclusive devotion...Acts 17:25

Paul's words in Romans do not even suggest voting or supporting any earthly government, as well..."existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God"...that is, by God’s permission...God allows the secular governments to have “relative” positions of authority, greater or lesser in relation to one another, but always inferior to his own supreme authority as Sovereign of the universe....understanding the use of the Greek word is paramount to understanding what Paul was truly saying...



Romans 13 — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Click to expand...

Two points:

  1. "voting" simply wasn't something that was done by the average person in biblical times; and
  2. I refuse to "debate" religion with anyone who is at risk of being "shunned" if they think for themselves about possible meanings of the scriptures that may vary from the "officially approved line" because of the danger that it would place them in should they actually start to think for themselves.

PS - Jesus didn't speak (or write) Greek and neither Paul nor Matthew were Jesus.
 
Re: Pope Francis again warns against nationalism, says recent speeches sound like ‘Hitler in 1934â

TU Curmudgeon said:
Two points:

  1. "voting" simply wasn't something that was done by the average person in biblical times; and
  2. I refuse to "debate" religion with anyone who is at risk of being "shunned" if they think for themselves about possible meanings of the scriptures that may vary from the "officially approved line" because of the danger that it would place them in should they actually start to think for themselves.

PS - Jesus didn't speak (or write) Greek and neither Paul nor Matthew were Jesus.
Click to expand...

lol...you know nothing about the Christian Greek Scriptures, do you?

Language of Jesus - Wikipedia

Language of the New Testament - Wikipedia
 
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