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White Anxiety, and a President Ready to Address It

JustHanging said:
Of course not. There's a ****load of racists in the USA. Trump has proven that. And he's gotten them to come out and play in the daylight:





Why do so many Trump supporters blame everyone else instead of taking personal responsibility? Maybe if they went back to school, they would be able to compete.
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You call everyone white that opposes your views racists. That load has been shot. When you call somebody you dont even know evil and go after them or their families or how they make their living, dont be surprised when they fight back.
 
truthatallcost said:
According to popular opinion from those of the same ilk as the NYT authors, whites aren't entitled to a group identity, if that identity includes anything that stems from race. I'm sure whites also shouldn't be allowed group identity based upon nationality either, as that seems to constitute nationalism.



NYT is a good gig. These aren't college students we're talking about here, they're thought influencers.
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C'mon. 'White' isn't an identity. Italian is an identity, German and Irish and Spanish and English are identities.
White identity, with no ethnic qualifier, is just a knee-jerk reaction from a low-functioning individual who doesn't have a clue what 'identity' means in that context. I identify as Scots- it'd be just stupid of me to profess 'white identity'. Meaningless.
Tell me, how is 'white identity' expressed? Without an ethnic qualifier, I mean.
 
d0gbreath said:
I agree. I identify as white, non-Hispanic on forms. That's pretty much the end of it. There are zillions of other factors that keep same skin color people from joining a group based solely upon that premise.
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'White non-Hispanic'? What kind of form asks you that question?
 
truthatallcost said:
White Anxiety, and a President Ready to Address It - The New York Times

Emily Badger & Nate Cohn @ NYT postulate that Donald Trump's Presidency is giving white people the confidence to view themselves as having a unique identity of their own! Oh noes! How can we stop this? Should white people be encouraged to view themselves as lacking an identity, and is a unique identity which contains an element of racial identity something that only minorities should be encouraged to possess?

D_8Z2-CXoAAkNMA


Emily Badger once wrote an article detailing how the Talmud may be used to uncover the building blocks of the US Constitution.

Talmud, Internet Unlock James Madison - Pacific Standard
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You mean years of complaining about white supremacy and racism made whites start taking their own side? Those racists.
 
Grand Mal said:
C'mon. 'White' isn't an identity. Italian is an identity, German and Irish and Spanish and English are identities.
White identity, with no ethnic qualifier, is just a knee-jerk reaction from a low-functioning individual who doesn't have a clue what 'identity' means in that context. I identify as Scots- it'd be just stupid of me to profess 'white identity'. Meaningless.
Tell me, how is 'white identity' expressed? Without an ethnic qualifier, I mean.
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So what is black?
 
pamak said:
In West Africa is where they were traded. Slaves could come from Somalia too. See slave routes of map

Slavery in Africa - Wikipedia

The experience of slavery provides a common narrative for every black in the US.
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Ilhan Omar's ancestors may have been slave traders themselves, or, if her ancestors were sold as slaves, would have been more likely to wind up in Turkey, or somewhere east of the coast. Yet her 'narrative' is one of American slavery, huh? Is this what socialists believe in 2019?
 
phattonez said:
So what is black?
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I don't know. It changes with each generation.
My guess? Most black Americans don't know what their ethnic identities are. How could they? 'Black' is all they have left in terms of ethnic identity, anything more specific, more accurate, is just unavailable to them. They have to make do with 'black', and in fact 'black identity' has been a strong cultural driver in the USA. The most recognizably American art form, music- jazz, blues, rock- is a creation of 'black identity'.
Hell, lots of white people don't know much about their ethnic background either, beyond knowing where their last name came from.
 
d0gbreath said:
All of them. That pick has replaced the old cawkashun label.
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Are we talking about government forms? Job applications? Bank forms?
Just that I've never been asked that question. Never. My income tax form asks me if I'm a resident of a First Nation terroritory, that's it, and even that doesn't ask if I'm Native myself, just do I live there. I don't think it's legal to ask that question on a form here.
I wonder what the purpose is.
 
Grand Mal said:
I don't know. It changes with each generation.
My guess? Most black Americans don't know what their ethnic identities are. How could they? 'Black' is all they have left in terms of ethnic identity, anything more specific, more accurate, is just unavailable to them. They have to make do with 'black', and in fact 'black identity' has been a strong cultural driver in the USA. The most recognizably American art form, music- jazz, blues, rock- is a creation of 'black identity'.
Hell, lots of white people don't know much about their ethnic background either, beyond knowing where their last name came from.
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Then why is black a valid identity, but not white?
 
truthatallcost said:
Ilhan Omar's ancestors may have been slave traders themselves, or, if her ancestors were sold as slaves, would have been more likely to wind up in Turkey, or somewhere east of the coast. Yet her 'narrative' is one of American slavery, huh? Is this what socialists believe in 2019?
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As I said, group identity is not about the personal connections 400 years ago. There may be American citizens today whose great-great-great parents were loyalists and avoided deportation to Canada. What matters is the common story that people accept today, and you like it or not, African-Americans do accept such a unifying story not only because of slavery but because of an enduring and still existing discrimination.
 
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phattonez said:
Then why is black a valid identity, but not white?
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Because African-Ameiricans have a UNIFYING EXPERIENCE based on their race in the form of slavery and discrimination after their emancipation which was very obvious up until the civil rights movement and continues to exist in a more subtle way up until today!
 
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Grand Mal said:
Are we talking about government forms? Job applications? Bank forms?
Just that I've never been asked that question. Never. My income tax form asks me if I'm a resident of a First Nation terroritory, that's it, and even that doesn't ask if I'm Native myself, just do I live there. I don't think it's legal to ask that question on a form here.
I wonder what the purpose is.
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Actually declaring one's race is optional on all of the forms.
 
d0gbreath said:
Actually declaring one's race is optional on all of the forms.
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Are you sure about this with the new census under the Trump administration?

[sarcasm intended]
 
phattonez said:
You mean years of complaining about white supremacy and racism made whites start taking their own side? Those racists.
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In pre-Nazi Germany, the privileged members of the intelligentsia at the Frankfurt School were complaining about white supremacy, literally during the period of the Weimar Republic! They called white supremacy, 'the authoritarian mindset', and deemed it to be a phenomenon of the uneducated, German blue collar class. So while leftist thinkers of today rationalize their psychological war against white identity by lazily pointing at Nazis as 'proof' that white collective identity is 'dangerous', their ideological forbearers were kvetching about white identity long before the Nazis came into power.
 
truthatallcost said:
In pre-Nazi Germany, the privileged members of the intelligentsia at the Frankfurt School were complaining about white supremacy, literally during the period of the Weimar Republic! They called white supremacy, 'the authoritarian mindset', and deemed it to be a phenomenon of the uneducated, German blue collar class. So while leftist thinkers of today rationalize their psychological war against white identity by lazily pointing at Nazis as 'proof' that white collective identity is 'dangerous', their ideological forbearers were kvetching about white identity long before the Nazis came into power.
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At that time, most in Europe regardless of ideological background accepted an ideology of white supremacy. The same was true in the UK and France. And, yes, if there is anything useful in studying history is the idea of learn from past mistakes and wrong ideas of identity.
 
pamak said:
As I said, group identity is not about the personal connections 400 years ago. There may be American citizens today whose great-great-great parents were loyalists and avoided deportation to Canada. What matters is the common story that people accept today, and you like it or not, African-Americans do accept such a unifying story not only because of slavery but because of an enduring and still existing discrimination.
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Then facts are irrelevant to African American identity, and just as I'd previously suggested, skin color is what unifies their group identity, and 'the common story people accept today', which is a generic oppressor vs oppressed Dr Seuss version of history.

Yet you've stated words to the effect that white American's experiences are so different and diverse, that we couldn't possibly share some common bond. Isn't that racist?
 
phattonez said:
Then why is black a valid identity, but not white?
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Because white people have Irish background or Swedish background or German background, and so on. People can and do celebrate this all the time. Those are all white identities. "White" is not a singular culture or identity to anyone except white supremacist or white nationalist groups.

For black people, that was taken away from them. They don't have South African heritage or Zaire heritage or Congo heritage because that history was deliberately scrubbed by slavers. Black people had to form a new culture in the new world. This is why "black culture" is much more singular than "white culture."
 
pamak said:
At that time, most in Europe regardless of ideological background accepted an ideology of white supremacy. The same was true in the UK and France. And, yes, if there is anything useful in studying history is the idea of learn from past mistakes and wrong ideas of identity.
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So white supremacy ruled Germany, France and the UK equally in the 1920s-early 1930s period I'm referring to. Yes?
 
truthatallcost said:
Then facts are irrelevant to African American identity, and just as I'd previously suggested, skin color is what unifies their group identity, and 'the common story people accept today', which is a generic oppressor vs oppressed Dr Seuss version of history.

Yet you've stated words to the effect that white American's experiences are so different and diverse, that we couldn't possibly share some common bond. Isn't that racist?
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At a personal level, may indeed be irrelevant and this applies to all forms of identity. I mentioned my example to make my point clear. The biological facts may have me be an offspring of a Viking who settled as a warrior in the Byzantine Empire hundreds of years ago when the Byzantine Emperor used them as mercenaries. Such possibility has zero effect on how I FEEL about my identity. And even if there was a way to have a DNA test and find that I am indeed an offspring of a Viking, it would not change the identity I have accepted and cultivated as a Greek.

The above though doe not mean that facts are completely irrelevant. At the GROUP level, the majority of my group will have ancestors who were indeed Greeks just like the majority of African-Americans will have ancestors who were slaves.

Also, I did not state that white American's cannot have ANY type of common bond. I said that skin color is not going to be the one which can unify them. So, a group of predominantly white Americans may have a common bond based on ethnicity. Most Greeks in Astoria NY are white, but the bond that connects them is not the color of their skin but their ethnicity.
 
truthatallcost said:
So white supremacy ruled Germany, France and the UK equally in the 1920s-early 1930s period I'm referring to. Yes?
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Well no, not equally. Was the idea that white Europeans were superior to other races common at the time? Of course. Was it so ingrained that people were willing to commit genocide over it? Only in one of those states.
 
truthatallcost said:
According to popular opinion from those of the same ilk as the NYT authors, whites aren't entitled to a group identity, if that identity includes anything that stems from race. I'm sure whites also shouldn't be allowed group identity based upon nationality either, as that seems to constitute nationalism.



NYT is a good gig. These aren't college students we're talking about here, they're thought influencers.
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This nothing but a smokescreen to distract from the core problem in this country...wealth inequality. Until the wealthy stop sucking up all the profits and socking it away we will have unrest by the masses.

The insights of this new data series are many, but for this post here I want to highlight a single eye-popping statistic. Between 1989 and 2018, the top 1 percent increased its total net worth by $21 trillion. The bottom 50 percent actually saw its net worth decrease by $900 billion over the same period.
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No wonder there are so many angry whites who feel cheated. They are right but not about the cause.

Top 1% Up $21 Trillion. Bottom 50% Down $900 Billion. – People's Policy Project
 
Deuce said:
Because white people have Irish background or Swedish background or German background, and so on. People can and do celebrate this all the time. Those are all white identities. "White" is not a singular culture or identity to anyone except white supremacist or white nationalist groups.

For black people, that was taken away from them. They don't have South African heritage or Zaire heritage or Congo heritage because that history was deliberately scrubbed by slavers. Black people had to form a new culture in the new world. This is why "black culture" is much more singular than "white culture."
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Not necessarily-


(CNN)Along the lush sea-islands and the Atlantic coastal plains of the southern East coast of America, a distinctive group of tidewater communities has stuck together throughout the centuries, preserving its African cultural heritage and carving out a lifestyle that is uniquely its own.

The Gullah/Geechee people are direct descendants of West African slaves brought into the United States around the 1700s. They were forced to work in rice paddies, cotton fields and indigo plantations along the South Carolina-Georgia seaboard where the moist climate and fertile land were very similar to their African homelands.
After the abolition of slavery, they settled in remote villages around the coastal swath, where, thanks to their relative isolation, they formed strong communal ties and a unique culture that has endured for centuries.

121204042200-gullah-map-story-body.jpg


Gullah/Geechee: African slave traditions live on in U.S. - CNN
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Migration is what causes some people to lose their native culture, and these African Americans never lost theirs, because they simply remained in place as a community. Blacks who moved away to New York, Chicago, or elsewhere lost their connection to their roots the same way that Italians who left Little Italy did, as they made their way to other states.
 
truthatallcost said:
So white supremacy ruled Germany, France and the UK equally in the 1920s-early 1930s period I'm referring to. Yes?
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I do not know if it was equal. Perhaps it was at least in the 1920's and early 30's. My claim is that it existed in all these western developed countries. I recall that the British Army before WWII was trying to evaluate the capabilities of the Japanese Armed Forces, and reports were saying things like that the slit eyes of the Japanese pilots prohibited peripheral vision which gave them a handicap. Then it came the biggest defeat in the history of the British Empire in Singapore at the hands of the Japanese...
 
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