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Cartoonist loses job after image depicting Trump ignoring dead migrants to play golf

TU Curmudgeon said:
Indeed there have been many such cases.

Of course there are also the cases of Americans who come to Canada to get medical treatment that they simply cannot afford in the US.

At one time Kingston General Hospital had quite a nice arrangement with several American medical insurance companies whereby the US companies would send patients up to KGH for treatment and would then pay 100% of the bill upon presentment.

Why would they do that?

Because KGH charged the insurance companies less than the American hospitals did (while the US insurance companies based their rates on what they would have to pay if they had sent their clients to US hospitals).

BTW, the universal medical insurance programs in Canada DO have provisions for paying elective care medical bills outside of their own provinces. In Canada there is generally an "overlap" period where the patient's home plan covers them until the plan for the patient's new province of residence kick in. Outside of Canada you have to get the treatment approved first (this is NOT a case where it is easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission).

PS - Have you heard of the Americans who have not been able to get any treatment at all (without bankrupting themselves) because they didn't "qualify" for any form of medical cost assistance/insurance? I have heard that, and can't say I would like to experience it.

PPS - Whenever I travel into the US I always carry "travellers' medical insurance". It costs me around $10 per month.
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I would say that as long as the majority of Canadian's like their plan, it's their decision to make. I truly hope it works well.

I had not heard of the Kingston Hospital arrangement. That is interesting and should kick off some sort of an investigation here.

As to bankruptcy for the cost of treatment, that is truly unfortunate.
As a Conservative, I have a strong negative suspicion of the Government and the programs they administer. It may be that Canada has a better crop of program administrators and functionary's than the US, but granting that, you can see why we here are not in favor of one size fits all insurance coverage.


All that said, I do support health coverage for all, I just believe we already have it here, just not so named.

Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
I would say that as long as the majority of Canadian's like their plan, it's their decision to make. I truly hope it works well.
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According to the survey published by US News & World Report (Feb. 4, 2019) the Canadian healthcare system ranks as the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] best in the world. That survey only included 80 countries.

According to the WHO survey reported by The Patient Factor (July 10th, 2019) the Canadian healthcare system ranked as an abysmal 30th best in the world. That survey included 190 countries.

You might want to read those surveys to see how much higher than Canada the US ranked on both of those surveys.

concernedpuma said:
I had not heard of the Kingston Hospital arrangement. That is interesting and should kick off some sort of an investigation here.
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Why would anyone want to investigate something that is both "100% legal" and (to use Mr. Trump's words) "is smart"?

concernedpuma said:
As to bankruptcy for the cost of treatment, that is truly unfortunate.
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The phrase "truly unfortunate" is one that I find appears much more frequently in the lexicon of people who have the attitude "That is never going to affect me so I really don't care." than it is in the lexicon of those who are truly concerned about their fellow humans.

concernedpuma said:
As a Conservative, I have a strong negative suspicion of the Government and the programs they administer.
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As a "Social Liberal, Fiscal Conservative, and Practising Orthodox Iconoclast" so do I. My attitude is that if something doesn't actually work then it shouldn't be done - REGARDLESS of what a "Good Idea" it is.

concernedpuma said:
It may be that Canada has a better crop of program administrators and functionary's than the US, but granting that, you can see why we here are not in favor of one size fits all insurance coverage.
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What is required to be an effective "insurance administrator and functionary" is the ability to do ordinary arithmetic. To be an effective "insurance actuary" slightly greater mathematical skill is required (or the ability to use a computer).

concernedpuma said:
All that said, I do support health coverage for all, I just believe we already have it here, just not so named.
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As long as you totally ignore the adverse financial effect of unexpected medical bills, then you are quite correct. After all, if someone does NOT already have medical insurance then they will qualify for "state administered" medical insurance as soon as they have been stripped of all assets and income streams.

With respect to medication costs, the fact that some people foolishly choose not to buy the medications that they require in order to fritter their money away of silly luxuries like food and housing is "truly unfortunate" - isn't it?
 
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TU Curmudgeon said:
According to the survey published by US News & World Report (Feb. 4, 2019) the Canadian healthcare system ranks as the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] best in the world. That survey only included 80 countries.

According to the WHO survey reported by The Patient Factor (July 10th, 2019) the Canadian healthcare system ranked as an abysmal 30th best in the world. That survey included 190 countries.

You might want to read those surveys to see how much higher than Canada the US ranked on both of those surveys.



Why would anyone want to investigate something that is both "100% legal" and (to use Mr. Trump's words) "is smart"?



The phrase "truly unfortunate" is one that I find appears much more frequently in the lexicon of people who have the attitude "That is never going to affect me so I really don't care." than it is in the lexicon of those who are truly concerned about their fellow humans.



As a "Social Liberal, Fiscal Conservative, and Practising Orthodox Iconoclast" so do I. My attitude is that if something doesn't actually work then it shouldn't be done - REGARDLESS of what a "Good Idea" it is.



What is required to be an effective "insurance administrator and functionary" is the ability to do ordinary arithmetic. To be an effective "insurance actuary" slightly greater mathematical skill is required (or the ability to use a computer).



As long as you totally ignore the adverse financial effect of unexpected medical bills, then you are quite correct. After all, if someone does NOT already have medical insurance then they will qualify for "state administered" medical insurance as soon as they have been stripped of all assets and income streams.

With respect to medication costs, the fact that some people foolishly choose not to buy the medications that they require in order to fritter their money away of silly luxuries like food and housing is "truly unfortunate" - isn't it?
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I wish you wouldn't attempt to be patronizing. Your attempt diminishes your post. There is a lot more to being a good steward of a program, like health care, than arithmetic. I Challenge you to be truthful and say that all medical care experience you have needed has been handled terrifically. Never had a goof that had their job, well, just because.
Further, you let your liberal slip show when you set up the false comparison with food and medicine. Many choose drugs and slovenly life style over treatment, both for themselves and their children.
Like children squealing with laughter at the carnival while riding the wild mouse roller coaster; I am happy for them, and if you like your health care, I'm happy for you. I just don't want to take the ride.
Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
I wish you wouldn't attempt to be patronizing. Your attempt diminishes your post. There is a lot more to being a good steward of a program, like health care, than arithmetic. I Challenge you to be truthful and say that all medical care experience you have needed has been handled terrifically. Never had a goof that had their job, well, just because.
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I have never run into any medical personnel that I could honestly say was "a goof that had their job, well, just because".

As for the administrative people running the healthcare insurance program, over the past 60 years or so, my experience has been:


  1. I need healthcare;
  2. I get the healthcare that I need;
  3. I don't get a bill.


How the healthcare providers deal with the healthcare insurers I have no idea.

concernedpuma said:
Further, you let your liberal slip show when you set up the false comparison with food and medicine. Many choose drugs and slovenly life style over treatment, both for themselves and their children.
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And many don't.

concernedpuma said:
Like children squealing with laughter at the carnival while riding the wild mouse roller coaster; I am happy for them, and if you like your health care, I'm happy for you. I just don't want to take the ride.
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Would it be totally unjustified to conclude that - at present - you have a very good healthcare insurance program that you do not pay for directly?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
I have never run into any medical personnel that I could honestly say was "a goof that had their job, well, just because".

As for the administrative people running the healthcare insurance program, over the past 60 years or so, my experience has been:


  1. I need healthcare;
  2. I get the healthcare that I need;
  3. I don't get a bill.


How the healthcare providers deal with the healthcare insurers I have no idea.



And many don't.



Would it be totally unjustified to conclude that - at present - you have a very good healthcare insurance program that you do not pay for directly?
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Well, TU. I am truly happy for you and I wish you continued good care.

To your last point; I do have a very good health insurance that I contribute to only as a SS payment each month. I got that privilege because I worked diligently for my employer for 35 years. I guess the real cut here in the US is planning for your future and doing your best to make it happen. How am I to react to the idea that working hard is good, but living a life of contemporary joy is as good?

Please know that I am in favor and support universal health care for children; price be damned. I just don't want to adopt the parents.

Regards,
CP
 
A bunch of leftwingers opening a thread to show concern for free speech rights. IRONY!!
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Indeed there have been many such cases.

Of course there are also the cases of Americans who come to Canada to get medical treatment that they simply cannot afford in the US.

At one time Kingston General Hospital had quite a nice arrangement with several American medical insurance companies whereby the US companies would send patients up to KGH for treatment and would then pay 100% of the bill upon presentment.

Why would they do that?

Because KGH charged the insurance companies less than the American hospitals did (while the US insurance companies based their rates on what they would have to pay if they had sent their clients to US hospitals).

BTW, the universal medical insurance programs in Canada DO have provisions for paying elective care medical bills outside of their own provinces. In Canada there is generally an "overlap" period where the patient's home plan covers them until the plan for the patient's new province of residence kick in. Outside of Canada you have to get the treatment approved first (this is NOT a case where it is easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission).

PS - Have you heard of the Americans who have not been able to get any treatment at all (without bankrupting themselves) because they didn't "qualify" for any form of medical cost assistance/insurance? I have heard that, and can't say I would like to experience it.

PPS - Whenever I travel into the US I always carry "travellers' medical insurance". It costs me around $10 per month.
Click to expand...

I just re-read the second sentence fully. Are you writing that as an American, I can get free medical care in Canada, for just the price of an Airline ticket?

Regards,
CP
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From The Independent

Cartoonist loses job after image depicting Trump ignoring dead migrants to play golf
​

A cartoonist says he has been dropped from a series of newspapers after his image depicting Donald Trump ignoring dead migrants to play golf went viral.

Michael de Adder, a freelance political cartoonist in Canada, says he was let go by all major newspapers in the southeastern Canadian province of New Brunswick after his cartoon was shared by thousands on Twitter and Facebook.

Cartoon for June 26, 2019 on #trump #BorderCrisis #BORDER #TrumpCamps #TrumpConcentrationCamps pic.twitter.com/Gui8DHsebl
— Michael de Adder (@deAdder) June 26, 2019
​
The cartoon shows Trump standing next to a golf cart, club in hand, staring at two migrants who lie face down in the water and asking: “Do you mind if I play through?”

For the image, Mr de Adder drew extensively on the shocking photo of the El Salvadoran father and daughter who were found dead in the waters of the Rio Grande last week, a haunting testimony of the dangers migrants go through when they try to cross the US-Mexican border

In the photograph, which was taken by journalist Julia Le Duc, the two-year-old girl is tucked inside her father’s shirt, with her arm around his neck.

COMMENT:-

What a horribly egregious violation of Mr. de Adder's 1st Amendment rights.

Right?
​
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No. An employee or freelancer doesn't have the right to continue employment if their employers don't like their product.
 
Moderate Right said:
No. An employee or freelancer doesn't have the right to continue employment if their employers don't like their product.
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There seems to be some confusion as to what you are allowed as a citizen without governmental punishment, as opposed to being in the hire of another, who also has rights.

Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
Well, TU. I am truly happy for you and I wish you continued good care.

To your last point; I do have a very good health insurance that I contribute to only as a SS payment each month. I got that privilege because I worked diligently for my employer for 35 years. I guess the real cut here in the US is planning for your future and doing your best to make it happen. How am I to react to the idea that working hard is good, but living a life of contemporary joy is as good?
Click to expand...

And those who worked diligently for an employer for 35 years and do NOT have a very good health insurance that I contribute to only as a SS payment each month because their employer never provided one - they can simply suck rocks because they chose to work for that employer?

concernedpuma said:
Please know that I am in favor and support universal health care for children; price be damned. I just don't want to adopt the parents.
Click to expand...

And for those children who don't get a job with an employer that provides a good healthcare insurance plan, why they can simply suck rocks when they turn 18 because it was their choice to work for that employer?

The English saying "I'm alright Jack." doesn't actually end at the word "Jack". The complete saying is "I'm alright Jack, screw you.".
 
American said:
A bunch of leftwingers opening a thread to show concern for free speech rights. IRONY!!
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What's actually ironic is that you completely missed the entire point of the "COMMENT" in the OP.

Or maybe it isn't.
 
concernedpuma said:
I just re-read the second sentence fully. Are you writing that as an American, I can get free medical care in Canada, for just the price of an Airline ticket?

Regards,
CP
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Possibly you should have re-read the third sentence

At one time Kingston General Hospital had quite a nice arrangement with several American medical insurance companies whereby the US companies would send patients up to KGH for treatment and would then pay 100% of the bill upon presentment.
​

as well. If you had done that you might have noticed the "then pay 100% of the bill upon presentment" bit.

What you CAN get, for the price of an airline ticket, is a bill that is likely to be between one half and one third the size of the bill that you would get if you did not have insurance in the US. Of course, if you were attempting to do that as a private individual, you can count on the fact that the care provider is going to be VERY likely to want to see adequate ability to pay the bill in advance (read as "require a substantial cash deposit or credit card deposit"). For emergency care, that isn't as likely to be enforced. For elective/chronic matters it is.
 
concernedpuma said:
There seems to be some confusion as to what you are allowed as a citizen without governmental punishment, as opposed to being in the hire of another, who also has rights.

Regards,
CP
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My exact point.

There are a lot of people who think that the 1[sup]st[/sup] Amendment actually applies to anyone other than "Congress". The 14[sup]th[/sup] widened that quite a bit but it did NOT widen it to the point where private individuals (including "legal individuals") are covered by it.

You might want to note that there is a strong correlation between
  1. the people who decry Facebook/Twitter imposing restrictions of Mr. Trump and his supporters; and
  2. the people who are saying that the paper is NOT violating a person's rights if it chooses to discharge a person for expressing a lack of support for Mr. Trump.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
And those who worked diligently for an employer for 35 years and do NOT have a very good health insurance that I contribute to only as a SS payment each month because their employer never provided one - they can simply suck rocks because they chose to work for that employer?



And for those children who don't get a job with an employer that provides a good healthcare insurance plan, why they can simply suck rocks when they turn 18 because it was their choice to work for that employer?

First and foremost, I won't be writing anything negative about Canada. My respect for Canada is too deep for that. I am not conceding a higher place for Canada, but will not denigrate our northern brothers and sisters.
But to answer your colorized question...Well, yes, I suppose so. How many lives can you live? I have but one. Life is about choices, not second, third or fourth hand throws at it. I suspect you lived a life that rewarded your good choices, even if not, they are still yours.
I was born and raised in sub-middle class circumstance. From that I learned and then raised my own in much better circumstance(must include here, my life partner, wife, was a strong pillar that was irreplaceable and dually responsible), .and we never asked for a handout, even when times were rough, very rough. Therein lies the difference. I didn't want or expect your help, nor from anyone else. We faced the world and did what we had to, to make a better life for our children. Like us, some will work at it, and some will knock on your door.
Regards,
CP
Click to expand...
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
What's actually ironic is that you completely missed the entire point of the "COMMENT" in the OP.

Or maybe it isn't.
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Actually, you missed the point that as a Canadian Citizen, he doesn't have any US Constitutional Rights.
 
poweRob said:
A fact that was captured well in the OP's cartoon.
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Progressives(whatever they misconstrue progress to be) are quite adept at snipping. What exactly did you mean by your post, or are we left to internalize and come to your hoped for conclusion and revel in the warmth of your possible meaning? If so, that path is long since worn-out and obvious to discerning readers at this point in time. Be brave, write what you mean and take the flak from it.
Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
Progressives(whatever they misconstrue progress to be) are quite adept at snipping. What exactly did you mean by your post, or are we left to internalize and come to your hoped for conclusion and revel in the warmth of your possible meaning? If so, that path is long since worn-out and obvious to discerning readers at this point in time. Be brave, write what you mean and take the flak from it.
Regards,
CP
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I meant what I said. The OP's political cartoon was about trump and trump-nations' dispassionate and dismissive attitude and there was smallvoice right there, basically summarizing succinctly the general dismissive attitude towards anyone not lock-stepping beside them.
 
poweRob said:
I meant what I said. The OP's political cartoon was about trump and trump-nations' dispassionate and dismissive attitude and there was smallvoice right there, basically summarizing succinctly the general dismissive attitude towards anyone not lock-stepping beside them.
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You meant what you said? A fact that was captured well in the OP's cartoon.
Curious you would bring up lock-step. I can't imagine a better description of the so-called progressives. Though, if one were to consider bringing down America as progress, I suddenly get it! Good luck with your iconoclasm, but don't expect anyone to think of you as anything more than a boring(never again) party guest.
Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
You meant what you said? A fact that was captured well in the OP's cartoon.
Curious you would bring up lock-step. I can't imagine a better description of the so-called progressives. Though, if one were to consider bringing down America as progress, I suddenly get it! Good luck with your iconoclasm, but don't expect anyone to think of you as anything more than a boring(never again) party guest.
Regards,
CP
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That's nice. Were you able to jam in all your off-topic points or do you have more generalized, alarmist "end of the world if I don't get my way" clap-trap you'd like to share with the rest of us?
 
poweRob said:
That's nice. Were you able to jam in all your off-topic points or do you have more generalized, alarmist "end of the world if I don't get my way" clap-trap you'd like to share with the rest of us?
Click to expand...

To return to topic, since that seems to be your chief concern as marshal of what is acceptable, you not only wrote, but doubled down with he OP's political cartoon was about trump and trump-nations' dispassionate and dismissive attitude and there was smallvoice right there, basically summarizing succinctly the general dismissive attitude towards anyone not lock-stepping beside them.

In my point of view, it was no longer about a misguided cartoonist, but then became your interpretation of same. At that point, you opened yourself to dissent. I am that dissent.
Regards,
CP
 
concernedpuma said:
{quoting me}And those who worked diligently for an employer for 35 years and do NOT have a very good health insurance that I contribute to only as a SS payment each month because their employer never provided one - they can simply suck rocks because they chose to work for that employer?

And for those children who don't get a job with an employer that provides a good healthcare insurance plan, why they can simply suck rocks when they turn 18 because it was their choice to work for that employer? {end of quote}

First and foremost, I won't be writing anything negative about Canada.
Click to expand...

Please feel free to do so. There are times when an "outsider's" views help you see what you have previously overlooked (as an "insider").

concernedpuma said:
My respect for Canada is too deep for that.
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And, I suppose that that means that everyone should totally ignore the less than perfect conduct of others?

concernedpuma said:
I am not conceding a higher place for Canada, but will not denigrate our northern brothers and sisters.
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There is a distinction between "the actions of the government of __[fill in the blank]__" and "__[fill in the blank]__". I keep that distinction very clear in my mine.

concernedpuma said:
But to answer your colorized question...Well, yes, I suppose so. How many lives can you live? I have but one. Life is about choices, not second, third or fourth hand throws at it. I suspect you lived a life that rewarded your good choices, even if not, they are still yours.
I was born and raised in sub-middle class circumstance. From that I learned and then raised my own in much better circumstance(must include here, my life partner, wife, was a strong pillar that was irreplaceable and dually responsible), .and we never asked for a handout, even when times were rough, very rough. Therein lies the difference. I didn't want or expect your help, nor from anyone else. We faced the world and did what we had to, to make a better life for our children. Like us, some will work at it, and some will knock on your door.
Click to expand...

Even the least deserving are deserving of compassion and aid and it is our duty to provide them, or so it appears, Yeshua ben Yosef haNotzri would have us believe.
 
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smallvoice said:
Actually, you missed the point that as a Canadian Citizen, he doesn't have any US Constitutional Rights.
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Strangely enough, that isn't completely accurate.

In Canada, NO ONE (be they American citizen or not) has any "US Constitutional Rights" while in the US EVERYONE (be they American Citizen or not) has "US Constitutional Rights".
 
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