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Antifa-Proud Boys confrontation in Portland turns violent; conservative writer injured

Barnacle said:
Well, we've seen it often enough here on this board - for the left the motto is: If you're not with me, you're against me.
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Further than that... If you're not with me, you're against me... and you deserve whatever horrible thing happens to you.
 
Hamish Howl said:
If they hang out at Unite The Right or Patriot Prayer rallies, that's good enough for me. They go into the box with the other Nazis.
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Like I said, "hang out with"? Many groups at that rally...Does that mean that they all were tied? Of course not...

It is when the flavor of that nationalism is to enforce a single cultural view on people. The proud boys don't limit themselves to hating on Muslims. They also hate Gays, women that don't know "their place", and anything else that doesn't involve white people being top dog just because they're white.
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That's your opinion...Tell me how much good multi culturism has gotten the world? There are plenty of arguments for being proud of your own culture, hell no one bats an eye when Hispanics do it, the Irish do it, and a plethora of others...Are they bad too?
 
Hamish Howl said:
Definition:



(bolding mine)
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From Webster:

Definition of nationalism
1 : loyalty and devotion to a nation
especially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
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Yup, I agree. Our citizens culture and country first. I would expect Canadians, Chinese, etc to do the same. Having said that, it could certainly go too far, and we want to ensure we don't reach that level of nationalism.

in the same way, I see you are a socialist, we know that can (and I believe always has) gone too far too... It's a bit harder to define when it goes too far, though. IMO, because the intention is laudable and it's easy to get the emotions of the movement. It just doesn't work and ends in death and destruction.
 
buck said:
From Webster:



Yup, I agree. Our citizens culture and country first. I would expect Canadians, Chinese, etc to do the same. Having said that, it could certainly go too far, and we want to ensure we don't reach that level of nationalism.

in the same way, I see you are a socialist, we know that can (and I believe always has) gone too far too... It's a bit harder to define when it goes too far, though. IMO, because the intention is laudable and it's easy to get the emotions of the movement. It just doesn't work and ends in death and destruction.
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Socialism isn't infallible. It still relies on people, and people can screw up a county fair. Norway, Canada, etc, are an example of socialism being done correctly (hey, you can even still have a market present), whereas the USSR is a really good example of it being done very badly.

People have the idea of socialism as some monolithic USSR-esque structure. Likewise, people - me, in this case - tend to identify nationalism as jingoism.
 
j-mac said:
Like I said, "hang out with"? Many groups at that rally...Does that mean that they all were tied? Of course not...



That's your opinion...Tell me how much good multi culturism has gotten the world? There are plenty of arguments for being proud of your own culture, hell no one bats an eye when Hispanics do it, the Irish do it, and a plethora of others...Are they bad too?
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If they decide that everyone who isn't Hispanic or Irish have to act as if they are, then yes, they would be bad.
 
Barnacle said:
Well, we've seen it often enough here on this board - for the left the motto is: If you're not with me, you're against me.
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And the right's motto is "anything is okay if we do it."
 
Hamish Howl said:
If they decide that everyone who isn't Hispanic or Irish have to act as if they are, then yes, they would be bad.
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Well, that's using your opinionated definition of things...But, in the general sense, just so I have this straight, other cultures can have, and show pride in their cultures, but if we do it, then it's akin to supremacy? That's whacked IMHO...Why are you ashamed of your own nation?
 
j-mac said:
Well, that's using your opinionated definition of things...But, in the general sense, just so I have this straight, other cultures can have, and show pride in their cultures, but if we do it, then it's akin to supremacy? That's whacked IMHO...Why are you ashamed of your own nation?
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Right now, the list is pretty long, really. We're not exactly the good guys at the moment.
 
j-mac said:
Well, that's using your opinionated definition of things...But, in the general sense, just so I have this straight, other cultures can have, and show pride in their cultures, but if we do it, then it's akin to supremacy? That's whacked IMHO...Why are you ashamed of your own nation?
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I think it was Orwell who said it's better to call it patriotism then to call it nationalism. I would tend to agree with that, IMO, just because of the connotation some people use. But, it's mostly the same thing.
 
truthatallcost said:
You just described labels that were flimsily attached to Trump at one point too. It's meaningless Card. Why not just say, 'I like white violent people when they represent my interests, i.e. Antifa'?
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Who likes Antifa? Does anybody like Antifa?
 
j-mac said:


Ok, but you aren't using any of those...No....You're trying the best you can to blur the line between White Supremacists, and other extreme right wing groups...It's so dishonest as to be a lie....
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It's not really a meaningful distinction to me, but truthatallcost is obviously trying to be very particular, which is why White Pride, Nationalist, ultra right wing and neo-fascist may be more acceptable to him. In this particular instance they all fall under the umbrella of White Supremacy.
 
j-mac said:
Let me make this clear...I do NOT support the Proud Boys, or what they claim are their values...With that said I am posting this because a Conservative writer/blogger was attacked by AntiFa during this latest riot in Portland...If this had been reversed and members of the Proud Boys had attacked a liberal journalist covering this, then not only would the left in here gone total ape ****, generalizing every conservative, or republican as a supporter of the violence that happened, but calling them responsible for the reporter's injury...I won't do that....I know that many on the left in here don't support AntiFa's leftist fascist action, just as myself and others on the right don't support Proud Boys....But, here is the opportunity for those on the left and right to denounce this violence. Let's see who are the rational members, and who can't resist the attack....
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Hope these fascist antifa thugs get caught. Nothing but a group of domestic terrorists.
 
rocket88 said:
So you don't support the Proud Boys, but you're upset that one of their apologists gets hit? Interesting.
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Looks like he's disturbed that a journalist got hit.

But I don't see why he shouldn't be disturbed that anyone got hit. Violence against someone not attempting to harm you is not acceptable.Whether they are a 'proud boy' or an 'apologist', or anyone.
 
Atomic Kid said:
If you want to run with dogs like the Proud Boys you're going get fleas.
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"fleas' being pathetic cowardly antifa thugs who attack journalists (note he's not the first journalist attacked by antifa either....)?
 
j brown's body said:
Anti-racist, but hate Muslims.
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1. Muslim is not a race, so I'm unsure what got into your knickers there.

2. he said anti-Islam, not 'hate muslims'. I'm an atheist - I'm anti-Christianity, anti-Islam, etc.. That doesn't mean I hate Christians and Muslims, etc..
 
Gondwanaland said:
Looks like he's disturbed that a journalist got hit.

But I don't see why he shouldn't be disturbed that anyone got hit. Violence against someone not attempting to harm you is not acceptable.Whether they are a 'proud boy' or an 'apologist', or anyone.
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Or a BBC cameraman? Would that also count?
 
Cardinal said:
They're a white supremacist group.
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No they aren't. Their leader is Enrique Tarrio. Not exactly the moniker of a white dude - hes an Afro-Cuban. They have various other members of color, including one of their more well known brawlers who has gotten arrested for fights, Tusitala “Tiny” Toese -a Samoan.

Just because they're right wing and you don't like them, doesn't make them white supremacists.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Or a BBC cameraman? Would that also count?
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I'm against the assaulting of anyone who is not harming or threatening imminent harm toward you. How about you?
 
Gondwanaland said:
I'm against the assaulting of anyone who is not harming or threatening imminent harm toward you. How about you?
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After the BBC guy got assaulted at the Trump rally, I am now in favor of violence as a political tool.
 
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