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[W:273]Trump makes yet another false claim about California voter fraud

TheParser said:
The left wants to abolish the Electoral College, of course.
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Of course they do because of California which is the model state for liberalism, a state leading the nation in poverty, homeless, has the highest cost of living, worst quality of life, and the largest wag gap in the nation. Notice that the left never addresses those issues.
 
MTAtech said:
Your post is completely off-topic. Even if California was the worst ****-hole in the country, there is no evidence that there were millions of voters voting illegally -- which is the topic.
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There isn't any proof whatsoever that illegals didn't vote in California other than the say so by political leaders in the state
 
It takes good deal of stupidity to believe a million votes could be cast by people unlawfully masquerading themselves with no one getting caught. Even a hundred or so strains normal credulity to the breaking point.
 
Not only does Trump and the Right lie, when it's proven to be a lie they will keep repeating that lie.

That's been a tactic for 20+ years in the Con media.. The Obamaphone lie was disproved almost immediately. But the Con media kept lying about it, for 8 years.. And now 2 years AFTER Obama left office there are still Cons who push the lie. The Pizzagate lie... The Seth Rich Lie... Uranium 1... The list is endless.

The Left/Dems HAVE to take the gloves OFF and get in the gutter and lie and insult just as much as the GOP and the allies on Fox do. The Right is going to hammer Biden over some statements he made on race!?!?!? LOL///lol.... After Trump, and Steve King, and Steven Miller and the endless list of racist in the GOP? The Dems should run in the media every single racist comment by anyone and everyone in the GOP.. Believe me, that will drown out a few comments by Biden.
 
Trump said:
do you even care if illegals vote?
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You are now trying to change the subject because you can't defend Trump's assertion about millions of ilegal votes.
 
Conservative said:
Most major cities are run by Democrats and it isn't abnormal IMO for those major cities to be rabid Democratic supporters as they can easily be manipulated and controlled. Immigration is a major issue in California as it leads the nation in illegal immigration, support for sanctuary cities, and caters to illegals by allowing them to have a state driver's license which also happens to be voter registration tool. Since California will not allow independent review of their voter registration process which is also a problem in other states, the likelihood of illegals voting in the state will always be debated. As stated since immigration is a major issue there and those cities gave Hillary the 4 million vote win the claim is certainly possible and IMO valid
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If you agree that is common place for major metropolitan areas to go blue, the fact that these major metropolitan areas went blue is not evidence of voter fraud.

Is it CA's voter registration process which is opaque?
Or is it the actual voter registrations that CA refused to release?
 
A state that was going to vote Blue no matter what, so 1 million people in the US/California illegally would risk being arrested and deported so they could vote for something/someone that was already determined???

Poorly educated Trumpsters indeed..
 
Conservative said:
There isn't any proof whatsoever that illegals didn't vote in California other than the say so by political leaders in the state
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There isn't any proof that extra-terrestrial aliens didn't vote in CA elections either.

That lack of proof is different than evidence that they did though.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
If you agree that is common place for major metropolitan areas to go blue, the fact that these major metropolitan areas went blue is not evidence of voter fraud.

Is it CA's voter registration process which is opaque?
Or is it the actual voter registrations that CA refused to release?
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Support for sanctuary cities and allowing illegals to have a driver's license will always open California up to the claim of voter fraud as will the immigration issue and the 4 million vote win by Hillary
 
MTAtech said:
You are now trying to change the subject because you can't defend Trump's assertion about millions of ilegal votes.
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answered....no use debating when you're not honest about position
 
Simon W. Moon said:
There isn't any proof that extra-terrestrial aliens didn't vote in CA elections either.

That lack of proof is different than evidence that they did though.
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No there isn't but there is plenty of proof that California supports illegal immigrants through sanctuary cities and driver's licenses. Haven't seen any support for extra terrestrials. You can bury your head in the sand and defend California but what you cannot defend are the actual results in California which is the bluest state in the nation and among the most fiscally disastrous in the nation, a state that should be a model for liberalism and truly is a model for what is wrong with liberalism
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
A state that was going to vote Blue no matter what, so 1 million people in the US/California illegally would risk being arrested and deported so they could vote for something/someone that was already determined???

Poorly educated Trumpsters indeed..
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really...we can't even deport illegals that haven't shown for court dates:lamo
 
Trump said:
really...we can't even deport illegals that haven't shown for court dates:lamo
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:lamo... Trump's going to start a sweep of illegals in a couple of weeks... 1st on his list should be to round up that 1 mil illegals who voted Dem...I'm sure you guys know who they are.. You got the names and evidence... Right???? lol...

No problem for your god and cult leader..
 
Conservative said:
Support for sanctuary cities and allowing illegals to have a driver's license will always open California up to the claim of voter fraud as will the immigration issue and the 4 million vote win by Hillary
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That could be true.

But all the same, we should stay rational and rely on facts.
Otherwise our efforts are prone to being
co-opted by bull**** artists,
in the wrong direction,
and all for naught.​
 
Simon W. Moon said:
That could be true.

But all the same, we should stay rational and rely on facts.
Otherwise our efforts are prone to being
co-opted by bull**** artists,
in the wrong direction,
and all for naught.​
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Look, don't really give a damn about what California does as it if wants to remain the "****hole" of the nation and a bastion of illegal activities and liberalism so be it, just don't use it as justification for popular vote in the election of the President. This country isn't being represented well by California and their actions which is what this issue truly is all about. Trump is right in exercising his freedom of speech just as I am. I believe illegals and the legal families of illegals is what gave Hillary the 4 millino vote win in California and that alone makes the electoral college valid
 
Conservative said:
No there isn't but there is plenty of proof that California supports illegal immigrants through sanctuary cities and driver's licenses. Haven't seen any support for extra terrestrials. You can bury your head in the sand and defend California but what you cannot defend are the actual results in California which is the bluest state in the nation and among the most fiscally disastrous in the nation, a state that should be a model for liberalism and truly is a model for what is wrong with liberalism
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I was discussing the nature of the post I quoted rather than actually defending CA. [ Though obviously, ymmv about my posts. idk ]

Asking for proof of a negative is a notoriously difficult proposition.

Conservative said:
There isn't any proof whatsoever that illegals didn't vote in California other than the say so by political leaders in the state
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You are seeking proof that "illegals didn't vote" rather than seeking proof that they did.
This is generally a backassward approach to a situation.

Generally, we look for evidence of a crime instead of looking for the lack of evidence.
Again, this is because it generally difficult to conclusively prove a negative.

Because it generally difficult to conclusively prove a negative, it's a more efficient and reasonable proposition to seek evidence of a positive instead.
This is part of why the legal standard is that the gov must prove that someone committed a crime rather than the citizen having to prove that they're innocent.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I was discussing the nature of the post I quoted rather than actually defending CA. [ Though obviously, ymmv about my posts. idk ]

Asking for proof of a negative is a notoriously difficult proposition.



You are seeking proof that "illegals didn't vote" rather than seeking proof that they did.
This is generally a backassward approach to a situation.

Generally, we look for evidence of a crime instead of looking for the lack of evidence.
Again, this is because it generally difficult to conclusively prove a negative.

Because it generally difficult to conclusively prove a negative, it's a more efficient and reasonable proposition to seek evidence of a positive instead.
This is part of why the legal standard is that the gov must prove that someone committed a crime rather than the citizen having to prove that they're innocent.
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Here's the problem you want to ignore, there isn't going to be proof either way until the state which controls the election process opens the registration process and voter base to independent sources and that isn't going to happen. In the absence of state support positive or negative is impossible to determine so why isn't Trump allowed to exercise his freedom of speech just like others?

My point stands, the Electoral College was created to prevent massive states like California to determine the President of the United States
 
When it comes to Trump and his crime family Trumpsters want 100% proof that there was a crime.

When it comes to anyone else, possibly, could be and maybe are enough proof.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No, we actually DO know.

A. There is literally no credible evidence, whatsoever, backing up twump's claim.
B. He's a pathologically dishonest whore, as you admit.
C. He wants to bang his own daughter.
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There is no credibile evidence disputing Trump's claim.
 
Mycroft said:
There is no credibile evidence disputing Trump's claim.
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All available evidence shows his claim is conspiracist, Adderrall-fueled bull****, designed to fool suckers and rubes.

And I see that in some cases it's working.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
A state that was going to vote Blue no matter what, so 1 million people in the US/California illegally would risk being arrested and deported so they could vote for something/someone that was already determined???

Poorly educated Trumpsters indeed..
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The Adorables are not known for their critical thinking skills. No more proof is needed then too read some of the comments in this very thread. There is poorly educated, then there is ignorant.
 
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Conservative said:
Look, don't really give a damn about what California does as it if wants to remain the "****hole" of the nation and a bastion of illegal activities and liberalism so be it, just don't use it as justification for popular vote in the election of the President.
This country isn't being represented well by California and their actions which is what this issue truly is all about.
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You may not like it, but Californians are Americans too.
W/e they are is a part of what Americans are.
You don't have to like it, but that's how it is

Conservative said:
Trump is right in exercising his freedom of speech just as I am. I believe illegals and the legal families of illegals is what gave Hillary the 4 millino vote win in California and that alone makes the electoral college valid
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You are welcome to believe most w/e you like.
But if you are asking others to believe, you should provide solid reasons for them to believe.

Pointing out that something could have happened, and that there's no evidence that it did not happen is an inherently weak case.

Yes, there are illegal aliens in CA.
Yes there is a *possibility* that some of them could have voted in CA's elections
What is unknown is the probability that some of them did vote in CAs elections.
What seems patently improbable is that 3 to 4 million illegal immigrants voted in the 2016 CA elections.

A particular problem with the 3-4 million illegal immigrant votes theory you and Trumpco are espousing is that the estimates of California's 2016 illegal immigrant population are about 2.2 million — ≈20% of the US illegal immigrant population at the time.

This means that the CA illegal immigrant population would have to have a 100% participation rate.
It also means that some significant percentage ( maybe 50% to 90% ) of them would have needed to voted more than once.

It boggles the mind to think that the Democratic party could motivate any population group to 100% voter participation.
If US democrats possessed the power to get 100% voter participation, they'd never have any issues winning elections.


Believe as you wish.
If you wish that Trump's loss in CA were the fault of millions of illegal immigrants rather than the votes of Americans, you are free to believe that you wish was fulfilled.


But if you want more company in your belief, you should probably make a stronger case than, "It could have happened. You can't prove that it didn't."
 
yankintx said:
That alone is enough to dump him in 2020. The man has zero integrity.
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Hopefully, enough voters will realize. For his cult, nothing was enough in 2016 -- not his birtherism -- not his ***** grabbing -- not his insulting the handicapped -- not his insulting John McCain, as a war hero.
 
Conservative said:
Here's the problem you want to ignore, there isn't going to be proof either way until the state which controls the election process opens the registration process and voter base to independent sources and that isn't going to happen.
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If there is no proof and no evidence of the massive voter fraud which is alleged, why should you or I believe that this sort of thing actually happened?
Because it *could* have happened?

Conservative said:
In the absence of state support positive or negative is impossible to determine so why isn't Trump allowed to exercise his freedom of speech just like others?
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Is some part of the govt trying to crack down on Trump for making his improbable claims?
If not, then "freedom of speech" is not at issue here. ymmv

Pointing out that there's no evidence to support this seemingly improbable claim is the correct response of the Electorate and the Press.
This is notably different than the govt trying to infringe on your or Trump's 1st Amendment rights. ymmv

Conservative said:
My point stands, the Electoral College was created to prevent massive states like California to determine the President of the United States
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You point is about the EC, and not about illegal aliens being the reason why Trump lost in CA?
 
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