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Sanders to propose canceling entire $1.6 trillion in US student loan debt

Buzz62 said:
Why not just force the colleges and universities to lower their tuitions?
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Or better yet rethink the entire concept of education. Is there really a need for having a professor lecture a 100 or so students when he could be reaching millions? Our current system seems incredibly outdated given where we are technologically. We could divert what we are paying to public universities and create an online university provided to every American citizen.
 
Nap said:
Or better yet rethink the entire concept of education. Is there really a need for having a professor lecture a 100 or so students when he could be reaching millions? Our current system seems incredibly outdated given where we are technologically. We could divert what we are paying to public universities and create an online university provided to every American citizen.
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Already done. Tuition at most universities is outrageous. On top of that, the quality of the education has gone down hill.
Enrollment is way down and universities appear to be more breading grounds for tweenkies and liberal activists, more than centers for higher education.

But hey...at least sexual deviants now have safe spaces and their own pronouns...:roll:
 
Renae said:
Sanders to propose canceling entire $1.6 trillion in US student loan debt - StamfordAdvocate

"The American experiment in democracy will end when the politicians realize they can bribe the voters with gold from the treasury.

All you suckers that did without, paid your loans off, fools the lot of you, you should have just waited for the Dem's to force everyone ELSE to pay for your college degree!

PS A main push to get kids to enlist/join the military is the promise the military will help pay for it, what will this do to recruitment?
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It can be called The Job Security And High Income For Leftist Professors Protection Act.
 
Buzz62 said:
Don't be a plank.
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Don't know what a "plank" is but we cannot just force, demand, non profit businesses like colleges to charge less for tuition any more than we can demand that car manufacturers cut their selling prices because we'd all like cheaper cars.
 
JasperL said:
I don't know what you're worried about. Free college and paying off debts won't cost taxpayers anything. We'll see improved economic growth by attracting more/better jobs and better productivity and I'm pretty sure that the program will pay for itself over time. And if it doesn't we can just cut tax rates some more and raise the new revenue that way. Seems like a good plan to me.
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really who is going to pay for it?
money just doesn't grow on tree's.
 
Erod said:
Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren today called for reparations for same sex couples.

Will the pandering ever end in this pathetic parity?
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nope because that is all they have left.
they have 0 ideas.
what ideas they do have stink worse than the crap they spew.
 
ludin said:
really who is going to pay for it?
money just doesn't grow on tree's.
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Why does anyone have to pay for it? I'm somewhat serious. When we cut taxes for the big money boys, no one pays for it and no one cares. But propose spending some money on the little people and all of a sudden it's essential that the payment plan be nailed down before the bill even gets proposed.

It's odd don't you think how the rules change depending on who benefits? My basic feeling is I don't give a damn who it's paid for or if it's paid for. Run on it, propose it and worry about paying for it next session or next year, or never, same as we do with tax cuts.
 
JasperL said:
Why does anyone have to pay for it? I'm somewhat serious. When we cut taxes for the big money boys, no one pays for it and no one cares. But propose spending some money on the little people and all of a sudden it's essential that the payment plan be nailed down before the bill even gets proposed.
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These is debt taken on by private lenders. that have lent money to people. they expect to be paid.
so again i ask who is going to pay it?

It's odd don't you think how the rules change depending on who benefits? My basic feeling is I don't give a damn who it's paid for or if it's paid for. Run on it, propose it and worry about paying for it next session or next year, or never, same as we do with tax cuts.
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sorry not how it works in private business. debtors expect to be paid to cancel the debt.
when i pay my Student loans they don't go to the government. why? my student loans aren't held by the government.
 
Renae said:
Sanders to propose canceling entire $1.6 trillion in US student loan debt - StamfordAdvocate

"The American experiment in democracy will end when the politicians realize they can bribe the voters with gold from the treasury.

All you suckers that did without, paid your loans off, fools the lot of you, you should have just waited for the Dem's to force everyone ELSE to pay for your college degree!

PS A main push to get kids to enlist/join the military is the promise the military will help pay for it, what will this do to recruitment?
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So, the sunken cost fallacy.
 
ludin said:
These is debt taken on by private lenders. that have lent money to people. they expect to be paid.
so again i ask who is going to pay it?



sorry not how it works in private business. debtors expect to be paid to cancel the debt.
when i pay my Student loans they don't go to the government. why? my student loans aren't held by the government.
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The issue is the federally guaranteed student loans. The US government backs the loans, so the insurers can offer lower rates. These also can't be relieved in bankruptcy - the part that many on the left complain about.

Private loans have higher rates, and are based on the credit worthiness of the student (and usually parents). These can be discharged in bankruptcy.

The best fix for all concerned may be to get the government out of the mix. Let students get private loans. Then creditors won't let them get this massive student debt.
 
JasperL said:
Don't know what a "plank" is but we cannot just force, demand, non profit businesses like colleges to charge less for tuition any more than we can demand that car manufacturers cut their selling prices because we'd all like cheaper cars.
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Do universities get government grants? Sure they do. Tuitions come down or grants disappear. I'm sure there's other "sticks" that can be used too.
 
dcsports said:
The issue is the federally guaranteed student loans. The US government backs the loans, so the insurers can offer lower rates. These also can't be relieved in bankruptcy - the part that many on the left complain about.

Private loans have higher rates, and are based on the credit worthiness of the student (and usually parents). These can be discharged in bankruptcy.

The best fix for all concerned may be to get the government out of the mix. Let students get private loans. Then creditors won't let them get this massive student debt.
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exactly they are federally insured meaning the people are going to get their money regardless of what happens.
so who is going to pay the 1.6 trillion dollars?
 
Buzz62 said:
Do universities get government grants? Sure they do. Tuitions come down or grants disappear. I'm sure there's other "sticks" that can be used too.
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So do car companies and just about every healthcare provider you can name, every hospital, every ED, etc.

It's just not a serious argument, particularly because public colleges and universities are already by definition subject to heavy involvement by the states who fund them, and I can't believe you want Big Brother to start setting tuition at private colleges.
 
JasperL said:
So do car companies and just about every healthcare provider you can name, every hospital, every ED, etc.

It's just not a serious argument, particularly because public colleges and universities are already by definition subject to heavy involvement by the states who fund them, and I can't believe you want Big Brother to start setting tuition at private colleges.
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Car companies receive government funds? I mean beyond the bailouts...which I believe they paid back?
Sure you can manage tuitions and hospitals. If private colleges insist on these outrageous fees, remove all funding they receive, redirect it to the state colleges on the provision that tuitions be cut drastically, and watch on for the next decade while these private colleges die out.
 
Buzz62 said:
Car companies receive government funds? I mean beyond the bailouts...which I believe they paid back?
Sure you can manage tuitions and hospitals. If private colleges insist on these outrageous fees, remove all funding they receive, redirect it to the state colleges on the provision that tuitions be cut drastically, and watch on for the next decade while these private colleges die out.
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OK, I don't consider that a workable or serious plan at all, but if you do, that's fine.
 
Buzz62 said:
Car companies receive government funds? I mean beyond the bailouts...which I believe they paid back?
Sure you can manage tuitions and hospitals. If private colleges insist on these outrageous fees, remove all funding they receive, redirect it to the state colleges on the provision that tuitions be cut drastically, and watch on for the next decade while these private colleges die out.
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Define drastically. Basically if you want to reduce college tuitions by a good amount, have them get rid of out-of-state college tuitions and only charge one rate. Those out-of-state college tuitions alone are 3-5 times the amount of in-state college tuitions.

What I don't like is the emphasis that the work places put on 4-year college degrees. I can understand if you are in the field of say Engineering, that you would need a 4-year degree (or more) in Engineering but for many positions a 4-year degree should not be required. I saw a management position one time require a minimum of a masters degree (in anything) to get the position. To me that is just plain stupid.

As long as the work place is going to require a 4-year degree (or more) when you don't really need one to do the job, then the colleges are going to be able to rake in the money regardless.

Personally out of all the people I have ever hired in the tech field, I have found those with 2-year technical vocational degrees to be more adept in their field than someone with a 4-year degree. I would like to see more government assistance in those fields for people rather than 4-year colleges.
 
Praxas said:
Define drastically. Basically if you want to reduce college tuitions by a good amount, have them get rid of out-of-state college tuitions and only charge one rate. Those out-of-state college tuitions alone are 3-5 times the amount of in-state college tuitions.

What I don't like is the emphasis that the work places put on 4-year college degrees. I can understand if you are in the field of say Engineering, that you would need a 4-year degree (or more) in Engineering but for many positions a 4-year degree should not be required. I saw a management position one time require a minimum of a masters degree (in anything) to get the position. To me that is just plain stupid.

As long as the work place is going to require a 4-year degree (or more) when you don't really need one to do the job, then the colleges are going to be able to rake in the money regardless.

Personally out of all the people I have ever hired in the tech field, I have found those with 2-year technical vocational degrees to be more adept in their field than someone with a 4-year degree. I would like to see more government assistance in those fields for people rather than 4-year colleges.
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I completely agree with your assessment of university grads as opposed to 2 year college grads. Techs need to be hands-on and technical.
As for out of state tuitions, I also agree with you.
However I would also have the state colleges cut tuitions by a significant percentage. Perhaps by trashing that silly program called "Humanities"? Just a thought...
 
ludin said:
exactly they are federally insured meaning the people are going to get their money regardless of what happens.
so who is going to pay the 1.6 trillion dollars?
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The people who borrowed the money. But this would phase out the problem, at least as far as the federal government goes, in 10 years.
 
Praxas said:
Define drastically. Basically if you want to reduce college tuitions by a good amount, have them get rid of out-of-state college tuitions and only charge one rate. Those out-of-state college tuitions alone are 3-5 times the amount of in-state college tuitions.

What I don't like is the emphasis that the work places put on 4-year college degrees. I can understand if you are in the field of say Engineering, that you would need a 4-year degree (or more) in Engineering but for many positions a 4-year degree should not be required. I saw a management position one time require a minimum of a masters degree (in anything) to get the position. To me that is just plain stupid.

As long as the work place is going to require a 4-year degree (or more) when you don't really need one to do the job, then the colleges are going to be able to rake in the money regardless.

Personally out of all the people I have ever hired in the tech field, I have found those with 2-year technical vocational degrees to be more adept in their field than someone with a 4-year degree. I would like to see more government assistance in those fields for people rather than 4-year colleges.
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I disagree on the out of state tuition. You find this with public colleges. Generally, the tuition is 'the same', and the difference actually reflects funds paid by the state and/or community entity to offset tuition for their citizens. So for example, a person going to the University of Texas from Amarillo will pay less than one from Florida, because the state of Texas pays the difference.
 
Surrealistik said:
TBH, I think a lot of the surface proposals can be easily argued as a form of smart negotiation, where you start high, and bargain from there as the actual legislative process always features considerable mutation and tempering, versus the Obama approach of asking for half a loaf and getting crumbs.

I don't think a single person believes for example, that the MFA that Bernie proposes is the MFA that will ultimately pass if and when it does.
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On the contrary that is precisely what is causing so much friction, even here on DP.
There's a large handful of VERY vocal paranoid knee-jerk reactionary types who shriek in reflex to any mention of health care reform that does not issue from the pink pulsing pie hole of Donald Trump Himself.

And MFA? Bernie????

Bernie is going to send us all straight to commie Hell!


OMG teh socialismz!!!!
OMG teh socialismz!!!!
OMG teh socialismz!!!!

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If we could filter out that nonsense, rational people on both sides could talk reasonably.
Of course I don't expect conservatives to be thrilled about Bernie Sanders, of course I don't expect them to embrace MFA, but they know as well as WE know that whatever Sanders was to propose is going to get hammered on and watered down in some way.
Sanders will PROPOSE MFA but what we might get - - in an ideal cooperative bipartisan miracle, would probably be some sort of public option system with an early Medicare buy-in for younger people who have a life history of poor health, maybe 45-50 + years of age instead of 65.
We might want to keep Trump's recent EO that requires up-front hospital pricing, if there's any actual substance to the EO.
We might get a merge of the VA and DoD healthcare systems to streamline them and eliminate duplication.

At most we might get a limited single payer system that covers the absolute basics but which requires a small gap insurance mandate, which is subject to some kind of limited opt-out system in which objectors pay into a HCSA (healthcare savings account) system overseen by states.

I don't think that a fully socialized or fully single payer system would ever happen, even if Sanders were to win with Democratic majorities in both chambers of Congress. It would be some kind of compromise system at best.

And we wouldn't be witnessing some absurd idea of "America turning socialist" either.
Sanders is a New Deal Democrat, and that's what he would be pushing for...a redux of FDR's New Deal.
We'd be about as "socialist" as we were during the Eisenhower 1950's.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
On the contrary that is precisely what is causing so much friction, even here on DP.
There's a large handful of VERY vocal paranoid knee-jerk reactionary types who shriek in reflex to any mention of health care reform that does not issue from the pink pulsing pie hole of Donald Trump Himself.

And MFA? Bernie????

Bernie is going to send us all straight to commie Hell!


OMG teh socialismz!!!!
OMG teh socialismz!!!!
OMG teh socialismz!!!!

If we could filter out that nonsense, rational people on both sides could talk reasonably.
Of course I don't expect conservatives to be thrilled about Bernie Sanders, of course I don't expect them to embrace MFA, but they know as well as WE know that whatever Sanders was to propose is going to get hammered on and watered down in some way.
Sanders will PROPOSE MFA but what we might get - - in an ideal cooperative bipartisan miracle, would probably be some sort of public option system with an early Medicare buy-in for younger people who have a life history of poor health, maybe 45-50 + years of age instead of 65.
We might want to keep Trump's recent EO that requires up-front hospital pricing, if there's any actual substance to the EO.
We might get a merge of the VA and DoD healthcare systems to streamline them and eliminate duplication.

At most we might get a limited single payer system that covers the absolute basics but which requires a small gap insurance mandate, which is subject to some kind of limited opt-out system in which objectors pay into a HCSA (healthcare savings account) system overseen by states.

I don't think that a fully socialized or fully single payer system would ever happen, even if Sanders were to win with Democratic majorities in both chambers of Congress. It would be some kind of compromise system at best.

And we wouldn't be witnessing some absurd idea of "America turning socialist" either.
Sanders is a New Deal Democrat, and that's what he would be pushing for...a redux of FDR's New Deal.
We'd be about as "socialist" as we were during the Eisenhower 1950's.
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Republicans will never be on board with even half of what Sanders wants and will always call it socialism/communism/collectivism, and all the various sundry nonsense. So long as they have the power of veto, Democrats will never be able to pass anything of substance. Trying to placate or appeal to them is an absolute fool's errand, something that Biden clearly doesn't understand per his demonstrable and glaring lack of judgement. Even a public option probably wouldn't see the light of day in this event, so they can yell and scream and howl all they like, I don't give a damn, nor should anyone who's serious about enacting actual change. The focus should be on robbing them of that veto power at the polling booth, not acquiescing to their impossible, moronic demands.

The real threat, the one that we can actually (probably) negotiate with and work around is the enemy within of the Democratic party; the Joe Liberman style shills of the insurance and drug companies and the like. I agree Bernie's not going to get everything on his MFA wish list, absolutely, but I also think it's far better he start out demanding everything under the auspices of a Democrat House and Senate (and making fierce use of his bully pulpit to get as much as possible), than end up with three fourths of nothing by going the Obama route, promising the world only to not even try for a public option (I mean, not really; Obama never used the bully pulpit or even confronted Liberman).
 
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Surrealistik said:
Republicans will never be on board with even half of what Sanders wants and will always call it socialism/communism/collectivism, and all the various sundry nonsense. So long as they have the power of veto, Democrats will never be able to pass anything of substance. Trying to placate or appeal to them is an absolute fool's errand, something that Biden clearly doesn't understand per his demonstrable and glaring lack of judgement. Even a public option probably wouldn't see the light of day in this event, so they can yell and scream and howl all they like, I don't give a damn, nor should anyone who's serious about enacting actual change. The focus should be on robbing them of that veto power at the polling booth, not acquiescing to their impossible, moronic demands.

The real threat, the one that we can actually (probably) negotiate with and work around is the enemy within of the Democratic party; the Joe Liberman style shills of the insurance and drug companies and the like. I agree Bernie's not going to get everything on his MFA wish list, absolutely, but I also think it's far better he start out demanding everything under the auspices of a Democrat House and Senate (and making fierce use of his bully pulpit to get as much as possible), than end up with three fourths of nothing by going the Obama route, promising the world only to not even try for a public option (I mean, not really; Obama never used the bully pulpit or even confronted Liberman).
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Oh I agree that you have to ask for the Moon in order to get a few rocks.
 
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