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Oberlin College to pay bakery the now-massive sum of $44M over racism dispute

ecofarm said:
Institutional marginalization.

"Keep your mouths shut".


I notice you capitalize white. How appropriate.
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Does not exist today and in the past only did because of big government democrats
 
ecofarm said:
Black people also have a defamation and disenfranchisement case. How about we give every black person $44 mil.
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No they don’t. All black people collectively do not have a case for anything resembling defamation
 
ecofarm said:
Black people also have a defamation and disenfranchisement case. How about we give every black person $44 mil.
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When you find a case like this, by all means let us know. Until then, you need to stop accusing people of being racist because they don't share your view of the case.
 
ecofarm said:
Black people also have a defamation and disenfranchisement case. How about we give every black person $44 mil.
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Pointless even talking to you anymore.


A real shame as you use to be fun engaging with. Somewhere along the line, your cynicism has made you a bore.
 
Celebrating this award is celebrating racism.
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, you did. You support the historical and continued marginalization of black people.
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Would you be in a bind if a person of color broke into your house and beat you up? How would you react?
 
ecofarm said:
Black people also have a defamation and disenfranchisement case. How about we give every black person $44 mil.
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Wow, this is amazing.

My ancestors fought and -died- to stop slavery. They literally died to ensure their black brothers and sisters would no longer be owned by the selfish, hollow elites of old Virginia and other slave states.

How about those reparations? How do I get repaid for the lost blood line in my lineage?

I completely agree institutionalized racism exists, is extant, and harms blacks and latinos mostly. But I will not agree that the blood debt our ancestors paid is not "good enough."

Blacks need help in advancing their communities, keeping families together, and breaking the cultural issue they have with "rap" culture. They need aid in catching up with education, and not a system that enables rich whites to insulate their kids in private schools like the right advocates for.

But they certainly are never going to get one dime out of me in a paycheck for "reparations." That blood tithe was paid. Dearly. By hundreds of thousands of americans.
 
ecofarm said:
Justice for white people is swift and merciless.

Justice for black people is still waiting, 200 years and counting.
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Justice might come sooner if they'd stop using criminals as poster children for white racism:

The protests occurred after Allyson Gibson, who is white, confronted a black student who’d shoplifted a bottle of wine. Two other black students joined in and assaulted Gibson. :doh

Oberlin College to pay bakery the now-massive sum of $44M over racism dispute | Fox News
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Ahlevah said:
Justice might come sooner if they'd stop using criminals as poster children for white racism:
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I am still waiting for the answer to "what would you do"? Glad I didn't hold my breath.
 
A few things strike me about this case:

1. Let me first say that I am a professor of philosophy at a top-50 research institution in the Midwest (which is as close as I get to identifying myself here). I, too, have concerns about the excesses of some of the social justice stuff I see on my campus, as well as around the country, though I think the general idea--that there are institutional injustices "baked in" to our systems--is correct, and needs to be corrected.

2. This award will likely be reduced or overturned on appeal. It violates Ohio law, which caps punitive damages at twice compensatory damages.

3. No one here really knows what happened. For instance, much is made of the fact that the three black students eventually plead guilty, and from a legal perspective, that fact is significant. However, we know that people sometimes plead guilty to crimes they did not commit due to the threat of prosecution, the prospect at having to pay hefty legal fees to adequately defend the action (or alternately, being stuck with a public defender who will insist on the plea or do basically nothing at trial), etc. Quite a few individuals who are eventually exonerated were first caught in this kind of trap, and it hits black and latinx individuals disproportionately.

4. The case against Oberlin college itself seems more tenuous than it should be to support this kind of punitive award. I've been to Oberlin one time (in 2009, if memory serves), but at that time, the people in Oberlin town seemed to be actively hostile toward students and professors, for little reason that I could tell at that time. I was only there a few days, so there's certainly something going on I didn't see, but my point is that there's a background hostility against the college among the community at large, and that hostility could also factor in here.

In short, I think this is a wait and see case. It's going to go to appeal; we'll see what the appellate court says.
 
Renae said:
GOOD! It's about time the over zealous get a wake up call that their tactics are too far. Good for the bakery, good for the jury!
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Agree 100%.

But, sadly, in the coming decades, most juries will no doubt side with the "zealous."

It's terrible what's happening to our country, but the liberals/progressives/leftists are right: "There's no stopping us. We are on a roll. Just wait until we retake the Executive Mansion. You ain't seen nothing yet!"
 
ashurbanipal said:
A few things strike me about this case:

1. Let me first say that I am a professor of philosophy at a top-50 research institution in the Midwest (which is as close as I get to identifying myself here). I, too, have concerns about the excesses of some of the social justice stuff I see on my campus, as well as around the country, though I think the general idea--that there are institutional injustices "baked in" to our systems--is correct, and needs to be corrected.

2. This award will likely be reduced or overturned on appeal. It violates Ohio law, which caps punitive damages at twice compensatory damages.

3. No one here really knows what happened. For instance, much is made of the fact that the three black students eventually plead guilty, and from a legal perspective, that fact is significant. However, we know that people sometimes plead guilty to crimes they did not commit due to the threat of prosecution, the prospect at having to pay hefty legal fees to adequately defend the action (or alternately, being stuck with a public defender who will insist on the plea or do basically nothing at trial), etc. Quite a few individuals who are eventually exonerated were first caught in this kind of trap, and it hits black and latinx individuals disproportionately.

4. The case against Oberlin college itself seems more tenuous than it should be to support this kind of punitive award. I've been to Oberlin one time (in 2009, if memory serves), but at that time, the people in Oberlin town seemed to be actively hostile toward students and professors, for little reason that I could tell at that time. I was only there a few days, so there's certainly something going on I didn't see, but my point is that there's a background hostility against the college among the community at large, and that hostility could also factor in here.

In short, I think this is a wait and see case. It's going to go to appeal; we'll see what the appellate court says.
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The facts are very clear. The students did in fact attempt to steal.
The college did spread lies about the bakery.


Days of protests followed the arrests, with chants and flyers spread around the community calling Gibson’s “a racial establishment with a long account of racial profiling and discrimination.”

Flyers were hung in college halls and urged students and staff to take business elsewhere.

The lawsuit alleges Raimondo and other college professors were present and took part in the protests and the dissemination of flyers as well.

In response to the accusations of racism, Oberlin police conducted an investigation into arrests at Gibson’s and found “a complete lack of evidence of racism,” the complaint states. In a five-year period, according to police, 40 adults were arrested for shoplifting and only six were African-American.

“The defendants consciously ignored the facts and findings of the Oberlin Police Department because such ignorance allowed them to continue their agenda against Gibson’s bakery and the Gibsons,” the complaint states.

According to the complaint, this agenda also includes wanting to buy the Gibson’s building and the adjacent parking lot, owned by Allyn Gibson’s father, David Gibson.
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Gibson's sues Oberlin College - Chronicle-Telegram
 
ecofarm said:
Did the bakery incur $44,000,000 in damage? No. It's not Google.
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The damage award was 11 million. The punitive phase was 33 million.

So question is:

Was the attempt to destroy the bakery the bakery worth 11 million? Yes

Was the fine for the attempt worth 33 million? Yes.
 
Renae said:
The facts are very clear. The students did in fact attempt to steal.
The college did spread lies about the bakery.
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Which is why, if I were you, I wouldn't read to much into this ruling. People are going to continue to be called out for their racist comments and actions and there will still be protests to shame them and get them fired or run out of business. When Laura Ingraham tells basketball players to shut up and dribble, people are free to interpret that as racist and to protest and petition advertisers to drop her and Fox to fire her. You just can't tell outright lies and say Laura Ingraham called Lebron James a nig*er because she didn't. You can still interpret her actual comments as racist and shame her accordingly.
 
Master Debator said:
Which is why, if I were you, I wouldn't read to much into this ruling. People are going to continue to be called out for their racist comments and actions and there will still be protests to shame them and get them fired or run out of business. When Laura Ingraham tells basketball players to shut up and dribble, people are free to interpret that as racist and to protest and petition advertisers to drop her and Fox to fire her. You just can't tell outright lies and say Laura Ingraham called Lebron James a nig*er because she didn't. You can still interpret her actual comments as racist and shame her accordingly.
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This might be more about setting an example. Lets hope it takes.
 
Master Debator said:
Which is why, if I were you, I wouldn't read to much into this ruling. People are going to continue to be called out for their racist comments and actions and there will still be protests to shame them and get them fired or run out of business. When Laura Ingraham tells basketball players to shut up and dribble, people are free to interpret that as racist and to protest and petition advertisers to drop her and Fox to fire her. You just can't tell outright lies and say Laura Ingraham called Lebron James a nig*er because she didn't. You can still interpret her actual comments as racist and shame her accordingly.
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You aren't a master of debate, as that argument you make has no relevance to the case. This is about a college, actively using its resources and staff to cause economic harm to a business, through lies, intimidation and actions. A far cry from "shaming" a Laura Ingram for alleged racially motivated comments.

Come back to the thread when you've got a grasp of the facts of the case.
 
ecofarm said:
It's a bakery. Worth perhaps 3 million in total. $44,000,000 is institutional racism.
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The school is mostly white. About 95%.

It was the school and it's students that were screaming racism.

You're trying are trying very hard to make this about racism. There's nothing racist about the actions of the bakery. They called the police on some shoplifters. They were assaulted and harassed with the intent to destroy the business. It's not about President Trump either.

So, without those two fallback positions, the left has basically nothing.
 
Renae said:
You aren't a master of debate, as that argument you make has no relevance to the case. This is about a college, actively using its resources and staff to cause economic harm to a business, through lies, intimidation and actions. A far cry from "shaming" a Laura Ingram for alleged racially motivated comments.

Come back to the thread when you've got a grasp of the facts of the case.
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Maybe don't be so reactionary and learn to read. I was addressing the idea that you and some have shated that this is going to end or dilute some the wave of social change sweeping the nation. I agree with the ruling. Ive said as much. This wouldn't have changed the out come of the Starbucks protest for instance because Starbucks did ask that black man to leave and people are still free to interpret that action as racist and say so and protest Starbucks based on that.
 
Master Debator said:
Maybe don't be so reactionary and learn to read. I was addressing the idea that you and some have shated that this is going to end or dilute some the wave of social change sweeping the nation. I agree with the ruling. Ive said as much. This wouldn't have changed the out come of the Starbucks protest for instance because Starbucks did ask that black man to leave and people are still free to interpret that action as racist and say so and protest Starbucks based on that.
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No, what we're hoping, is that maybe this will temper the outrage machine to pick actual battles that are worth the effort... ya know, actual cases of racism, by realizing that there are consequences for their behavior.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No they don’t. All black people collectively do not have a case for anything resembling defamation
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In any event, the statute of limitations ran out on that case 150 years ago.
 
Master Debator said:
Maybe don't be so reactionary and learn to read. I was addressing the idea that you and some have shated that this is going to end or dilute some the wave of social change sweeping the nation. I agree with the ruling. Ive said as much. This wouldn't have changed the out come of the Starbucks protest for instance because Starbucks did ask that black man to leave and people are still free to interpret that action as racist and say so and protest Starbucks based on that.
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Did the Starbucks employee ask non purchasing customers, who happened to be of color, to leave? Of course what you stated is what was reported.
This is another case that puzzles me.
The key word is "alleged", but the accusation of intent is real
Leslie Jones blasts Sephora on eve of inclusion training, says aide alleges bias
 
dobieg said:
You use to be one of the more reasonable people around here but lately there's been a marked shift in your tone and attitude.


What's up?
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His preferred candidate lost.
 
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