[W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

SLC · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
I cannot guarantee anything. Can you guarantee that Trump is not compromised or that he did not collude with Russians?

I told you again that the uranium stories that conservatives read miss the whole picture. If you see that picture (which requires reading sources other than Judicial Watch and FOX), you will realize that it does not make sense to depict Clinton as the person who would be valued by the Russian government for the uranium deal.

Here is some information for you which I suspect you never read it anywhere in the sources you use...

4 GOP leaders warn of uranium mine sale - Washington Times

The State Department was one of nine agencies comprising CFIUS, which vets potential national security impacts of transactions where a foreign government gains control of a U.S. company. It was established by Congress in 2007 after the controversy over the planned purchase of seaports by a company in United Arab Emirates. The other agencies were the departments of Treasury, Defense, Justice, Commerce, Energy and Homeland Security, and two White House agencies (Office of the U.S. Trade Representative and Office of Science and Technology Policy).

Composition of CFIUS

The Secretary of the Treasury is the Chairperson of CFIUS, and notices to CFIUS are received, processed, and coordinated at the staff level by the Staff Chairperson of CFIUS, who is the Director of the Office of Investment Security in the Department of the Treasury.

In other words, the Secretary of Treasure was way more instrumental in the deal than Hillary. And in fact, when some republicans were questioning the deal they sent a letter to HIM to block the deal

...Four leading House Republicans, citing national security concerns, are urging Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to block the sale of a Wyoming-based uranium mine to an arm of the Russian government’s main nuclear agency.

It is just that the right wing press used this story to make Hillary the villain who supposedly provided invaluable service to the Russian government

If the yellow cake had never been shipped to Europe and Asia could you then guarantee it had never been shipped to Russia?

I can guarantee after 2800 subpoenas 500 interviews 300 search warrants and tens of millions spent no evidence of Trump collusion was found. That is as sure as it gets.

uptower · Jun 15, 2019

Athanasius68 said:
Steele wasnt the source for his dossier. He hasn't been to Russia in 20 years. The folks in Russia, annoymous folks, were his sources.
Why trust those sources when Russia is in the midst of such cyberwarfare against the USA?

The Mueller investigation did not stem from the findings of the Steele Dossier, so it is irrelevant. I'm not interested in conspiracy theories to that effect. What information was later gleaned from the Steele report has been verified or dismissed as necessary, but it is merely a right-wing myth that the investigation started with the dossier or even had much use for it. The mueller report bears ghow how little use it was.

Special Counsel investigation (2017–2019) - Wikipedia

"Australian officials informed American officials that in May 2016, a Trump presidential campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, told the Australian High Commissioner to Britain, Alexander Downer, that Russian officials were in possession of politically damaging information relating to Hillary Clinton"

Athanasius68 said:
Moreover, it's doubtful that Trump folks in the tower knew Veselnitskaya was an agent.

It's doubtful they cared. Yet when offered stolen goods they did not report it to the authorities and went to hear her out. FEC chairperson has just announced that is what should not have been done: the Trump campaign wilfully sought stolen goods.

Just for comparison when in 2000 Al Gore was offered something similar on McCain, he reported it.

The President of the United States has just admitted he do it all over again.

He is a crook.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
You ignore the fact that the people that bought Uranium One also donated more than 140 million to the Clinton Foundation prior to the sale of Uranium One. So the Russians must like Hillary at least as much as they like Trump.:lol:

Really?

First the donations were to the BILL CLinton's non profit organization.

Second, we had an agreement to see all such transactions.

Meanwhile, we let Trump hide his business deals and we already know that he lied when he said that he did not have deals in Russia during the campaign only to learn that he was pursuing such deals even after the start of his campaign..

Trump's in law talks with foreigners about business deals.

Give me a break!

Stealers Wheel · Jun 15, 2019

Mycroft said:
It's not against the law to receive "anything of value" from a foreign entity in support of their political campaign.

If that were the case, then Trump would be charged with a crime the first time Farage showed up at one of his campaign rallies.

If that were the case, then Hillary would be in jail for receiving the Steele dossier...which came from a foreign entity who got information from another foreign entity.

On the other hand, I don't think that's what Wray even said. I think you are making **** up.

Actually, it was the Chairman of Federal Elections Commission who tweeted it, but what does she know?

And Trump has since backpedaled his statement after His Ignoramus was informed by his own people that it was indeed illegal.

Athanasius68 · Jun 15, 2019

uptower said:
The Mueller investigation did not stem from the findings of the Steele Dossier, so it is irrelevant. I'm not interested in conspiracy theories to that effect. What information was later gleaned from the Steele report has been verified or dismissed as necessary, but it is merely a right-wing myth that the investigation started with the dossier or even had much use for it. The mueller report bears ghow how little use it was.

Special Counsel investigation (2017–2019) - Wikipedia

"Australian officials informed American officials that in May 2016, a Trump presidential campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, told the Australian High Commissioner to Britain, Alexander Downer, that Russian officials were in possession of politically damaging information relating to Hillary Clinton"

It's doubtful they cared. Yet when offered stolen goods they did not report it to the authorities and went to hear her out. FEC chairperson has just announced that is what should not have been done: the Trump campaign wilfully sought stolen goods.

Just for comparison when in 2000 Al Gore was offered something similar on McCain, he reported it.

The President of the United States has just admitted he do it all over again.

He is a crook.

The investigation began before the whole thing with PapaD. The FBU had already been surveilling the campaign by that point. That date is just the mark of the formal start (btw-- PapaD was not interviewed until after Trump was inagurated).
It's true the dossier did not factor into the Mueller report. Which explains why Mueller could not find a conspiracy between Russia and Trump. There was nothing else existing claiming to the contrary.

Maybe theTrump guys didn't care whether she was a spy or not. Maybe they didn't think about it one way or the other as it outside their experience.
But what excuse does the Obama admin in using the dossier? Why didn't they care that it wasn't verified?
What has caused more destruction in his country over the past couple years... A meeting in Trump tower or the stamp of legitimacy on that damned dossier?

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
If the yellow cake had never been shipped to Europe and Asia could you then guarantee it had never been shipped to Russia?

I can guarantee after 2800 subpoenas 500 interviews 300 search warrants and tens of millions spent no evidence of Trump collusion was found. That is as sure as it gets.

If you can guarantee such things, then I can quarantee also that if the yellow cake had gone to Russia, the senators or the memos would have said it. That is as sure as it get also.

Also, the fact that we do not even know which supposedly European country got some yellow cake and the fact that I see expressions like "it appears" and such, shows that this claim should not be treated as a fact.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

Athanasius68 said:
Ok-- so the FBI had an obligation to investigate foreign information.
So how come that obligation doesn't exist in 2020?

Why would Russia send fake info to Steele? Because it contribute to political instability in the country.

It was not the Russian government which sent fake info to Steele.
I have explained numerous times in this thread that it was Russian citizens who were NOT acting on behalf of the Russian government. An individual informer can have many reasons to give false information. It may be a product of a honest mistake. A product of rumor one heard! It may be a deliberate lie in an attempt to boost his importance and get some cash reward. It can be anything!

I do not understand the question of " So how come that [FBI] obligation doesn't exist in 2020"?

And for the nth time: Russians are not simpletons. They can very well combine helping Trump to win the elections and sow chaos and political instability. Do you think we have a political stable environment now with Trump as POTUS?

Atomic Kid · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
God you are naïve. the dirty dossier that she paid millions for was used to try to damage Trump. She wouldn't spend millions and have no idea what it was being spent on. Steele was a dirty tricks guy that was desperate to release the dossier. He went to the state department prior to the election and told them he wanted it released before the election. The woman that he spoke to at the state department realized it was a garbage document and notified the FBI.

Speaking of being naive to the point of cluelessness. 'She' didn't pay for anything. The Democratic party payed along the GOP as well. And no one spent 'millions' on on Steele's investigation and his memos , ie. 'dossier'. The total amount payed to Steele was $160,000. And he made no such demand upon the US State Dept. and HE was the one to reach out to the FBI. Not anyone else.

Athanasius68 · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
It was not the Russian government which sent fake info to Steele.
I have explained numerous times in this thread that it was Russian citizens who were NOT acting on behalf of the Russian government. An individual informer can have many reasons to give false information. It may be a product of a honest mistake. A product of rumor one heard! It may be a deliberate lie in an attempt to boost his importance and get some cash reward. It can be anything!

I do not understand the question of " So how come that [FBI] obligation doesn't exist in 2020"?

During a time period when we know Russia was screwing with the election, why the benefit of the doubt is being given to the country.

Obama received information from foreign sources about Trunp. His administration investigated Trump.
The hypothetical of 2020 is that it is a outrage that Trump would use foreign information to investigate a political opponent.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

Athanasius68 said:
During a time period when we know Russia was screwing with the election, why the benefit of the doubt is being given to the country.

I do not understand what you try to say. What I said was that the Russians could very well combine the objective of helping Trump win the election and create political instability. It makes no sense to suspect that the Russian government was providing false information to Steele which could harm Trump BEFORE he became president. And I gave you a very analytic view of the Russian interests to show why an anti-EU and anti-NATO (with respect to the US NATO allies) was a perfect match to vital Russian interests. Nothing prevented the Russians from spreading misinformation to embarrass Trump and help in a political destabilization AFTER Trump became president!

Obama received information from foreign sources about Trunp. His administration investigated Trump.
The hypothetical of 2020 is that it is a outrage that Trump would use foreign information to investigate a political opponent.

Not about Trump!

We know from Comey's testimony under oath (and nobody questioned this statement) that Trump was NOT the target of investigation. Comey said this to Trump during the first meeting they had soon after Trump won the elections. THis was the same meeting when Comey revealed the presence of Steele's file to Trump!

So there is no hypothetical to discuss. Now, if a Democrat candidate starts hiring for his campaign people with close connections to China, and if we have a leak of Trump's taxes from hacking which is attributed by all intelligence services to China, then you can make a comparison. And even then, as I said, Trump did not become an object of investigation while Trump was president.

Atomic Kid · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
If the yellow cake had never been shipped to Europe and Asia could you then guarantee it had never been shipped to Russia?

I can guarantee after 2800 subpoenas 500 interviews 300 search warrants and tens of millions spent no evidence of Trump collusion was found. That is as sure as it gets.

Ok, Alex Jones. Can you explain what great need an advanced nuclear power such as Russia has for 'yellow cake'? No matter it's point of origin? This is already fully debunked nonsense. You should be ashamed of how easily you are being manipulated by this nothing burger conspiracy nut nonsense.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

Correction to my previous post since i cannot edit it anymore

So there is no hypothetical to discuss. Now, if a Democrat candidate starts hiring for his campaign people with close connections to China, and if we have a leak of Trump's taxes from hacking which is attributed with high confidence by all intelligence services to China, then you can make a comparison. And even then, as I said, Trump did not become an object of investigation while OBAMA was president.

hanger4 · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
It was not the Russian government which sent fake info to Steele.
I have explained numerous times in this thread that it was Russian citizens who were NOT acting on behalf of the Russian government. An individual informer can have many reasons to give false information. It may be a product of a honest mistake. A product of rumor one heard! It may be a deliberate lie in an attempt to boost his importance and get some cash reward. It can be anything!

I do not understand the question of " So how come that [FBI] obligation doesn't exist in 2020"?

And for the nth time: Russians are not simpletons. They can very well combine helping Trump to win the elections and sow chaos and political instability. Do you think we have a political stable environment now with Trump as POTUS?

*It was not the Russian government which sent fake info to Steele.
I have explained numerous times in this thread that it was Russian citizens who were NOT acting on behalf of the Russian government.*

How do you know this ?? All I've ever read is 'anonymous Russian sources' ??

uptower · Jun 15, 2019

Athanasius68 said:
The investigation began before the whole thing with PapaD. The FBU had already been surveilling the campaign by that point. That date is just the mark of the formal start (btw-- PapaD was not interviewed until after Trump was inagurated).
It's true the dossier did not factor into the Mueller report. Which explains why Mueller could not find a conspiracy between Russia and Trump. There was nothing else existing claiming to the contrary.

Maybe theTrump guys didn't care whether she was a spy or not. Maybe they didn't think about it one way or the other as it outside their experience.
But what excuse does the Obama admin in using the dossier? Why didn't they care that it wasn't verified?
What has caused more destruction in his country over the past couple years... A meeting in Trump tower or the stamp of legitimacy on that damned dossier?

Trump supporters should be thankful the Obama admin didn't 'use' the Dossier. They could have released it - parts unverified or not - and tried to sink his campaign. In any case the special prosecutor's investigation did not hinge on the dossier and Trumpies only keep bringing it up to deflect. Case in point: when his detractors speak of evidence against him they point to the Trump Tower Meeting and the Mueller Report. It's all in there, not some irrelevant bit of oppo research.

Only his supporters keep bringing their little Steele sideshow into this. Why?

Because they want to distract us from the fact that the president sought help from foreign agents and just said he'd do it again. See thread title.

Athanasius68 · Jun 15, 2019

uptower said:
Trump supporters should be thankful the Obama admin didn't 'use' the Dossier. They could have released it - parts unverified or not - and tried to sink his campaign. In any case the special prosecutor's investigation did not hinge on the dossier and Trumpies only keep bringing it up to deflect. Case in point: when his detractors speak of evidence against him they point to the Trump Tower Meeting and the Mueller Report. It's all in there, not some irrelevant bit of oppo research.

Only his supporters keep bringing their little Steele sideshow into this. Why?

Because they want to distract us from the fact that the president sought help from foreign agents and just said he'd do it again. See thread title.

It's understandable why people wish to forget the dossier existed. It claimed that Trump and Russia were conspiring. After the Mueller report, we know this is untrue.

We also know from the report that Trump did not reach out to Russia; they responded (sometimes) to Russian outreach.

Trump said he would probably listen to what information foreign countries had on the 2020 Democratic nominee.
Which is no different than what the Obama Admin did in 2016 to the Republican nominee that year.

SLC · Jun 15, 2019

uptower said:
Trump supporters should be thankful the Obama admin didn't 'use' the Dossier. They could have released it - parts unverified or not - and tried to sink his campaign. In any case the special prosecutor's investigation did not hinge on the dossier and Trumpies only keep bringing it up to deflect. Case in point: when his detractors speak of evidence against him they point to the Trump Tower Meeting and the Mueller Report. It's all in there, not some irrelevant bit of oppo research.

Only his supporters keep bringing their little Steele sideshow into this. Why?

Because they want to distract us from the fact that the president sought help from foreign agents and just said he'd do it again. See thread title.

The Obama administration used the dossier to obtain FISA warrants so they could read all the emails of Carter Page and listen in on all his phone conversations. So yes the Obama administration did in fact use the dossier. And not the original scope letter to Mueller has been seen by a few select representatives in Congress and it appears that the dossier was part of the scope letter. I sure the letter will eventually be declassified by Barr and we will be able to see it for ourself.

SLC · Jun 15, 2019

Atomic Kid said:
Ok, Alex Jones. Can you explain what great need an advanced nuclear power such as Russia has for 'yellow cake'? No matter it's point of origin? This is already fully debunked nonsense. You should be ashamed of how easily you are being manipulated by this nothing burger conspiracy nut nonsense.

The point remains that Uranium One was not supposed to ship yellow cake out of the country yet they did it anyway.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

hanger4 said:
*It was not the Russian government which sent fake info to Steele.
I have explained numerous times in this thread that it was Russian citizens who were NOT acting on behalf of the Russian government.*

How do you know this ?? All I've ever read is 'anonymous Russian sources' ??

I explained the reasoning!

First, it does not make sense (for all the reasons I explained before) to have the Russian government both trying to help Trump win the election and spread misinformation before the election to harm him, and second we have the FBI getting the information from Steele and directors from two different administrations did not find anything to suggest that Russian government was trying to undermine Trump by misinformation given to Steele. In fact, even AFTER the appointment of new directors DURING the Trump administration, their assessment remained the same. And that assessment (with HIGH confidence) was that the Russian government intervened during the elections to help Trump.

SLC · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
If you can guarantee such things, then I can quarantee also that if the yellow cake had gone to Russia, the senators or the memos would have said it. That is as sure as it get also.

Also, the fact that we do not even know which supposedly European country got some yellow cake and the fact that I see expressions like "it appears" and such, shows that this claim should not be treated as a fact.

Yes that is the troublesome fact alright we don't know what happen to it we only know its not in the United States like it is supposed to be.

SLC · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
I explained the reasoning!

First, it does not make sense (for all the reasons I explained before) to have the Russian government both trying to help Trump win the election and spread misinformation before the election to harm him, and second we have the FBI getting the information from Steele and directors from two different administrations did not find anything to suggest that Russian government was trying to undermine Trump by misinformation given to Steele. In fact, even AFTER the appointment of new directors DURING the Trump administration, their assessment remained the same. And that assessment (with HIGH confidence) was that the Russian government intervened during the elections to help Trump.

Steele never gave anyone his sources. AGAIN The Russians were trying to sow chaos the gave disinformation to HRC in the form of fake dirt on DJT. And they gave real dirt to the public in the form of real compromising emails on HRC and the DNC. Your "logic" is flawed.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
Steele never gave anyone his sources. AGAIN The Russians were trying to sow chaos the gave disinformation to HRC in the form of fake dirt on DJT. And they gave real dirt to the public in the form of real compromising emails on HRC and the DNC. Your "logic" is flawed.

Who says that he never gave his sources? You think that such thing (revealing sources) would be announced in public? Your statements of what you think the Russians did, is just that, STATEMENTS! They are not arguments expressing WHY my logic is flawed. If the FBI or any agency had any suspicion that the Russian government were using Steele to spread misinformation and harm Trump, they would not have concluded with high confidence that the Russian government intervened with the specific purpose to help Trump!

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

SLC said:
Yes that is the troublesome fact alright we don't know what happen to it we only know its not in the United States like it is supposed to be.

I see no reason for any republican senator or conservative activist in this administration not to find the specific destination of that cake. This is why I see the claim as more like a rumor than a fact.

Athanasius68 · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
Who says that he never gave his sources? You think that such thing (revealing sources) would be announced in public? Your statements of what you think the Russians did, is just that, STATEMENTS! They are not arguments expressing WHY my logic is flawed. If the FBI or any agency had any suspicion that the Russian government were using Steele to spread misinformation and harm Trump, they would not have concluded with high confidence that the Russian government intervened with the specific purpose to help Trump!

Steele has said (under oath) that he does not know the identity of many of the sources used in his dossier.

hanger4 · Jun 15, 2019

pamak said:
I explained the reasoning!

First, it does not make sense (for all the reasons I explained before) to have the Russian government both trying to help Trump win the election and spread misinformation before the election to harm him, and second we have the FBI getting the information from Steele and directors from two different administrations did not find anything to suggest that Russian government was trying to undermine Trump by misinformation given to Steele. In fact, even AFTER the appointment of new directors DURING the Trump administration, their assessment remained the same. And that assessment (with HIGH confidence) was that the Russian government intervened during the elections to help Trump.

*First, it does not make sense (for all the reasons I explained before) to have the Russian government both trying to help Trump win the election and spread misinformation before the election to harm him,*

It makes perfect sense considering the Ruskies main objective was to sow discord and distrust in the US election system. Hell they've been attempting since WWII.

pamak · Jun 15, 2019

Athanasius68 said:
Steele has said (under oath) that he does not know the identity of many of the sources used in his dossier.

which is normal when one gets information from people about different rumors. In such situations, the origin of the information is not always known But this does not mean that Steele did not now in general the ID of his informants! In fact, even YOU (meaning your side) argued before that Steele was chosen EXACTLY because as a private employee had available contacts from his career as a British intelligence officer. If one tries to argue that Steele does not have a clue about his sources, then stop arguing that he payed foreign agents to get his information.He could have got his information from westerners in Russia...