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[W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Maybe it is because of Political bigotry?

Maybe, but they didn't worship and cover for any other Republican like this. Look at the way they lash out with hatred about Romney and McCain - the way they attack the Bush family, as Trump wants them to do. It isn't about party. It's about some very sinister devotion to Trump.
 
Re: Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Why do you insist on repeating the lies of idiots like Hinderaker?
Because lies are all Trump defenders have. They know truth doesn't support them so they resort to lies. They would rather have no integrity and get their way, than have integrity and share. They act every bit as childish as Trump himself.

It is absolutely despicable and unpatriotic.
 
It's a mixture of tribalism and cognitive dissonance.

They support Trump. Presented with solid evidence that Trump is deceitful, corrupt, intellectually vacant, self-serving, and highly unpatriotic is too much to handle, so they retreat back into their pee-conceived views.

I do not know, but my guess is because he is such a horrible person, they feel it is okay for them to be horrible people. They can be as racist, as hateful, as power hungry as they want because Trump makes them feel it is okay to do so.

It is such blatant dishonesty and it truly is fascinating to see.

I agree with both of you.

Trump knows this about his base, too. He has no respect for them. In fact it's pretty clear he holds them in contempt and always has (remember the shoot someone in broad daylight comment?).

I can't wait until he is gone from office and hopefully his idiotic fan base hides in a corner.
 
Maybe, but they didn't worship and cover for any other Republican like this. Look at the way they lash out with hatred about Romney and McCain - the way they attack the Bush family, as Trump wants them to do. It isn't about party. It's about some very sinister devotion to Trump.

Or a devotion to political conservatism that cares more about absolute power than anything else.
 
Re: Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Because lies are all Trump defenders have. They know truth doesn't support them so they resort to lies. They would rather have no integrity and get their way, than have integrity and share. They act every bit as childish as Trump himself.

It is absolutely despicable and unpatriotic.

Indeed. It informs and infests their every waking thought.

"How can I defend the indefensible today and whore my principles out for the mafioso in the White House?"

Sad to see so many here metaphorically fellate that pathetic excuse for a man.

Sad, yet predictable.
 
That would be because, not only is she a cheating little bitch, but she's also what we call...STUPID!

So being beholding to a adversarial foreign power is what you call being smart? You think all candidates should sell out their country for help in winning the election?
 
Re: Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Oh, man. This gets SO old, the misrepresentation and laughable pig-ignorance on the right.

If the Trump campaign had sent a private investigator to Moscow to interview people about the utterly absurd Uranium One 'story', nobody would have objected. It's opposition research. Happens all the time.

What Republicans did, and then Democrats later hired Christopher Steele to do, interview people, collect rumors, try and make sense of them, see if there's a narrative, falls into this category.

The quality of Steele's work you can dispute, and yet no one can demonstrate he 'fabricated lies'

He committed no crimes in the course of doing it

There is simply no rational comparison there between what twump did and what Steele did. None.

Why do you insist on repeating the lies of idiots like Hinderaker?


The Power Line. Holy crap. I haven't seen something from that group of frauds in years. I thought after they got humiliated about the Terri Schiavo memo they would scatter into the abyss where all liars go.
 
Comical considering every liberal out there had zero problem with Clinton using a British agent to get dirt from Russia on their political opponent.


I mean if you want us to continue laughing at your side, keeping feigning your horror over something your side is the master of.

Consider the following two scenarios:

(1) The Chinese government donates $5 million worth of paper to the Democratic nominee's campaign, for use in printing campaign flyers.

(2) The Democratic nominee's campaign buys $5 million of paper at market prices, for such purposes, and the supplier happens to be a Chinese company.

Presumably you'd have a problem with the first and not the second scenario. In the first, a foreign government is donating something of value to a US political campaign, in violation of campaign finance laws, with the hope of getting their preferred candidate elected (or the hope of compromising the candidate for later use). In the second scenario, there is nothing nefarious, since there is no law requiring campaigns to use domestic suppliers for the goods and services they use. They paid fair value for what they got, so there was no donation.

The Trump behavior, obviously, is akin to the first scenario, while the Clinton behavior is akin to the second. Trump's campaign conspired to solicit the donation of valuable information from the Russian government, which was either trying to get its preferred candidate elected, or to compromise him for later use. Clinton's campaign, by comparison, was just paying market rates for a standard campaign service, and the nationality of the provider or his sources is as much of a red herring as the fact the paper company, in my hypothetical, was Chinese. Unless there's some reason to thinks those services were donated, rather than purchased, there's nothing nefarious.

It's interesting that so many on the right haven't been able to think that one through.
 
Collusion is defined by Merriam-Webster’s as a “secret agreement or cooperation, especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose,” such as “acting in collusion with the enemy.” Under that definition, the contacts between Trump’s campaign and Russia, an avowed enemy of the United States, at least amounted to coöperation with a deceitful purpose.:

Mueller report stated that they couldnt establish that the Trump campaign had "cooperated" with Russians for any purpose.
 
So, you lied....Got it.

Hey did you see how GOP senators and congresspeople are blocking legislation enhancing election security and requiring politicians to report illegal contacts for hostile foreign powers? How conservatives must be that they're all traitors.

Senate GOP blocks bill to require campaigns report foreign election assistance | TheHill

McConnell Blocks Election Security, Takes Checks From Voting Machine Lobbyists

Traitors. Party over country, all of them. If this doesn't disgust every American there's something really, really wrong with anyone who excuses this behaviour.
 
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Hey did you see how GOP senators and congresspeople are blocking legislation enhancing election security and requiring politicians to report illegal contacts for hostile foreign powers? How conservatives must be that they're all traitors.

Senate GOP blocks bill to require campaigns report foreign election assistance | TheHill

McConnell Blocks Election Security, Takes Checks From Voting Machine Lobbyists

Traitors. Party over country, all of them.

Still haven't seen you back up your dishonest claim that I outlined....Deflection won't help you here.
 
Consider the following two scenarios:

(1) The Chinese government donates $5 million worth of paper to the Democratic nominee's campaign, for use in printing campaign flyers.

(2) The Democratic nominee's campaign buys $5 million of paper at market prices, for such purposes, and the supplier happens to be a Chinese company.

Presumably you'd have a problem with the first and not the second scenario. In the first, a foreign government is donating something of value to a US political campaign, in violation of campaign finance laws, with the hope of getting their preferred candidate elected (or the hope of compromising the candidate for later use). In the second scenario, there is nothing nefarious, since there is no law requiring campaigns to use domestic suppliers for the goods and services they use. They paid fair value for what they got, so there was no donation.

The Trump behavior, obviously, is akin to the first scenario, while the Clinton behavior is akin to the second. Trump's campaign conspired to solicit the donation of valuable information from the Russian government, which was either trying to get its preferred candidate elected, or to compromise him for later use. Clinton's campaign, by comparison, was just paying market rates for a standard campaign service, and the nationality of the provider or his sources is as much of a red herring as the fact the paper company, in my hypothetical, was Chinese. Unless there's some reason to thinks those services were donated, rather than purchased, there's nothing nefarious.

It's interesting that so many on the right haven't been able to think that one through.

I cant imagine any court that would interpret "a thing of value" to include simple facts. A campaign can both employ foreigners and have foreigners volunteer for their campaign. Could simply deem the russian supplier of info to be a campaign volunteer and make it all perfectly legal.
 
I cant imagine any court that would interpret "a thing of value" to include simple facts. A campaign can both employ foreigners and have foreigners volunteer for their campaign. Could simply deem the russian supplier of info to be a campaign volunteer and make it all perfectly legal.

So you would be fine with Chinese hackers getting any “true” dirt on trump and then giving it to the dem candidate?
 
Re: Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives


Like I said, Trump did not receive information about Clinton from Russians.
It continues to be true that Mrs. Clinton received information about Trump from Russians.
 
I cant imagine any court that would interpret "a thing of value" to include simple facts. A campaign can both employ foreigners and have foreigners volunteer for their campaign. Could simply deem the russian supplier of info to be a campaign volunteer and make it all perfectly legal.

This isn't about employment in a campaign. WTF is with all of you who have no idea what this thread is about?
 
Let me make this simple for you. If drawing comparison between Trump and Obama makes a point then its appropriate to use in this thread no matter if it chaps your a** or not. And since you aren't a moderator you will just have to deal with it.

It doesnt and it never has. Just deflection.
 
I cant imagine any court that would interpret "a thing of value" to include simple facts.

If any court were corrupt enough to interpret "thing of value" as not including facts, then it would largely short-circuit campaign finance law, and the laws against foreign interference in our elections. At that point, any campaign would be free to outsource all campaign functions that have an output consisting only of facts.

For example, campaigns spend a lot of money acquiring and processing voter information -- who lives where, who donates to whom, who is registered with the Party, and what other information is available about people that could be used to solicit donations. That output merely consists of a series of simple facts. So, all a campaign would have to do is call up whatever foreign dictator wants their guy to be his guy, and describe which "simple facts" would be helpful to them. Likewise, obviously, the money campaigns currently spend on opposition research needn't come from domestic sources. They can just hand off opposition research to outfits that take foreign donations, and then those outfits can produce whatever "simple facts" can be used to help the campaign. A lot of the work that goes into policy position papers and speech-writing also involved gathering facts, so that can also be done on the foreign dime. Why use US-donor money to fund policy research when you can just have a foreign-funded researcher hand you those "simple facts" after he's done the work? Market research can be outsourced, too. If you want to know how people in certain demographics react to certain talking points or ads that the campaign is planning to circulate, the information needed consists of "simple facts." It's helpful to know for a fact that 65% of registered voters who watched an ad thought the candidate came across as too aggressive, right? Why pay a dime for that focus group when Putin will foot the bill and then be at liberty to share those facts with you?

And if a court is willing to throw out the plain language of the law to invent out of whole cloth the idea that "simple facts" aren't things of value, then couldn't they take half a step further and include any immaterial assistance? For example, software coding, help desk services, speech writing, debate prep, etc., is just the exchange of information, just like "simple facts." So, you could outsource your campaign's IT work and other brain work to foreign governments, while you were at it. You could have them manning your phones, too, making the actual calls to voters on their dime -- they're just sharing "simple facts" with those voters, after all. Heck, you could probably have a foreign government drive about 80% of traditional campaign expenses through that giant loophole.

Of course, that's not to say that an activist court, like the hard-right Supreme Court, wouldn't legislate from the bench by inventing a new concept that facts don't have value for purposes of campaign law. But wouldn't it be better to leave it to Congress to change the law if they mean to radically restrict it that way?

A campaign can both employ foreigners and have foreigners volunteer for their campaign.

What they can't do is employ anyone on the campaign at a foreigner's expense. Even if the work that person is doing is just providing facts. And that's what we're talking about here -- people on a foreign payroll helping a campaign.
 
The point is moot. Hillary did not hire Steele. She hired Fusion GPS, an American firm.


From the viewpoint of the law, that is all that matters.

So, when she hired Fusion, Fusion then worked for HER. It's like when you hire a maid, she works for YOU. Hillary is 100% responsible for what Fusion did. She's guilty. And, she knew what Fusion and the DNC were doing. She knew what Steele was doing also. She knew he was conspiring and colluding with the Russians. And, even if she didn't, she paid for Steele to do so. She is still part of the conspiracy. And, Conspiracies are illegal. Lock her up!!! :sword:
 
Consider the following two scenarios:

(1) The Chinese government donates $5 million worth of paper to the Democratic nominee's campaign, for use in printing campaign flyers.

(2) The Democratic nominee's campaign buys $5 million of paper at market prices, for such purposes, and the supplier happens to be a Chinese company.

Presumably you'd have a problem with the first and not the second scenario. In the first, a foreign government is donating something of value to a US political campaign, in violation of campaign finance laws, with the hope of getting their preferred candidate elected (or the hope of compromising the candidate for later use). In the second scenario, there is nothing nefarious, since there is no law requiring campaigns to use domestic suppliers for the goods and services they use. They paid fair value for what they got, so there was no donation.

The Trump behavior, obviously, is akin to the first scenario, while the Clinton behavior is akin to the second. Trump's campaign conspired to solicit the donation of valuable information from the Russian government, which was either trying to get its preferred candidate elected, or to compromise him for later use. Clinton's campaign, by comparison, was just paying market rates for a standard campaign service, and the nationality of the provider or his sources is as much of a red herring as the fact the paper company, in my hypothetical, was Chinese. Unless there's some reason to thinks those services were donated, rather than purchased, there's nothing nefarious.

It's interesting that so many on the right haven't been able to think that one through.

Except that scenario #1 didn't happen. People thought it did, people investigated it, people believe it happened.
But it did not happen.

Nor is scenario #2 accurate for purposes of what happened (its not like one can reasonably conclude that hiring an expert on Russia would mean he would get anti- Trump info from Norway).

Since the claim is that Russia is the great adversary, what happened is that Clinton sought info from Russia. Period.
OTOH, the Trump campaign did not seek out info from Russia and instead was targeted by Russia by Russia coming to them).
 
So, when she hired Fusion, Fusion then worked for HER. It's like when you hire a maid, she works for YOU. Hillary is 100% responsible for what Fusion did. She's guilty. And, she knew what Fusion and the DNC were doing. She knew what Steele was doing also. She knew he was conspiring and colluding with the Russians. And, even if she didn't, she paid for Steele to do so. She is still part of the conspiracy. And, Conspiracies are illegal. Lock her up!!! :sword:

hmmm, no!

If this is the case, you and Trump are guilty for all the illegal workers who were hired by the companies which were working for you or Trump and they were hiring illegal immigrants.

And something else, it makes no sense to equate a foreigner who works for an American company to a foreigner who works for a government.
 
The quote repeats what we already know from the intelligence reports. The fact that Russians spent some effort to hack also republican facilities is known by such reports. It is also known that one of the reasons the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russians wanted specifically to help Trump was that they did not see any Russian attempt to leak whatever information they got from hacking the republicans. The quote does not sound odd. As I said, if the Russians wanted to gather potential harmful to the republicans (and Trump) information to use at some point in the future sounds quite rational from their point of view.

But it does not sound rational to leak such harmful information before the election when they saw a candidate who was clearly more open to establishing better relations with Russia than Hillary. Recall that Russia had already invaded Crimea and the Russian military was helping the Russian minority in Ukraine and that even the republicans were accusing Hillary of being a Cold War warmonger. It should be pretty clear that in such environment a candidate who sounded as being much more friendly and open to Russians would be the clear choice of the Russian government.

On the matter of intelligence:

It is also known that one of the reasons the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russians wanted specifically to help Trump was that they did not see any Russian attempt to leak whatever information they got from hacking the republicans.

Returning to my supposition that the Russians simply wanted to sow discord no matter which party benefited in the short term, it's entirely possible that whatever "information" the Russians got from hacking the RNC was simply nothing worth bruiting about. In any case, they didn't need to undermine the RNC that much, since Democrats were trying to find as much dirt on Trump as they could.

I've seen a lot of rhetorical opinions about how Russia supposedly believed that Trump would be more conciliatory to their interests, and very little hard evidence. Given that I've also seen other rhetorical opinions to the effect that Barack Obama was already extremely conciliatory to Russia, why would Russia necessarily think Hillary would become their mortal enemy? Yes, I'm sure she made her share of "tough on Russia" speeches, but she's contradicted herself on many occasions, so I have strong doubts that Russian policy-makers would assume that they couldn't work around her as they did around Obama.

It suits the Left's narrative that everything Russia did was to benefit Trump, because the Left wants to find some way to invalidate Trump's election. This narrative works only if we assume that Russia believed that their attempted hacks of the election would never be detected. That's not impossible, but it seems naive for practiced spies to assume that their hacking is just that good. So, given that Mueller was unable to demonstrate collusion, I think it's more probable that Russia knew that their hacking WOULD be detected, and that the Left would pick up on it and weaken the nation with endless legitimacy quarrels.

I suspect that's not a possibility you'll countenance, however.
 
People who defend his morality make me sick. Call a spade a spade, no matter if they have an "R" or a "D" behind their name. Until then, you're (in general) being led blindly by your bias.

I believe, and have always stated here, that Trump is a profoundly vulgar and narcissistic individual.

However, I also believe that we've had many presidents who had similar defects, and that in that respect Trump is nothing special.

Thus I find the attempt to paint him as the Antichrist to be overblown and manipulative.

He may well, at some point, be decisively proven to be guilty of high crimes like cheating on his taxes, or beating his wife, or whatever. But the Left's insistence that such things have ALREADY been proven are foolish in the extreme.
 
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