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Thread: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Equally, you cannot "prove" that the information that you get from an "operative" of a foreign government (especially when it does not concern the personnel or actions of that foreign government) is not true - at least you can't simply from the fact that you got it from an "operative" of a foreign government.

    When (at least a part of) that information is confirmed through sources which are NOT "operatives" of the (hostile) foreign government, then the amount of faith that you can put in the proposition "All the information obtained from 'operatives' of a 'hostile' foreign government is false, because it was obtained from 'operatives' of a 'hostile' foreign government." gets much smaller.
    How much of the Steele Dossier do you believe to be verified?

    A link, if available, would be appropriate.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Actually we can be very sure that Mr. Trump AND the Russians DID NOT "collude/connive/conspire".

    Why can we be sure about that?

    Because the Russians are not stupid enough to ACTUALLY "collude/connive/conspire" with a person of the personality type of Mr. Trump.

    That, of course, does not mean that the Russians - independently from "Team Trump" - were NOT doing whatever they thought was in Russia's best interests (regardless of what the laws of the United States of America are). And, if the Russians thought that it was in Russia's best interests for Ms. Clinton to be defeated, then they would have an incentive to do whatever they felt like doing (and which was practicable for them to do) to ensure that Ms. Clinton was defeated - even to the point of undertaking completely independent (from Mr. Trump and "Team Trump") actions that boosted Mr. Trump's chances of getting elected.



    I think that it would be safe to say that we can be sure that Mr. Trump:


    1. is ignorant about what the laws of the United States of America are (in many areas); or
    2. simply doesn't care what the laws of the United States of America are (in many areas); or
    3. believes that the laws of the United States of America (in many areas) simply do not apply to him;



    and that that should worry people.
    On a similar though not identical logical consideration, I've stated that the Russians' entire operation is so unsubtle that it's hard to believe it was directed at enlisting Trump as an asset, even unconsciously.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    You've asserted that you can't believe the Dossier was in any way produced by Russian intelligence because you're married to the narrative that the Russian government wanted Trump in office no matter what. I've already given my reasons for disputing this opinion.

    I see no reason to think that unverified info would make that much difference to American voters. I don't follow your questions re: some scenario in which the AG or someone else holds on to the Dossier. Are you talking about this happening within the scope of the Mueller Report's compilation, or what?

    Similarly, I also don't follow your Obama scenario. What good would it do to declassify something that hasn't yet been verified?
    You see no reason that unverified information will make that much difference to the American voters?
    If you follow elections, you can find countless examples of political opponents using such unverified info.
    Why do you think they do it?
    Why do you think Trump started talking nonsense about Ted Cruz's father?
    Why do you think we have politician using "FAKE NEWS" even when they KNOW that the information is false?

    Your belief that any politician would not think it was advantageous for his campaign to use unverified information makes no sense to me and is detached from political reality.

    If you can answer to me why you think that Trump thought it was a good idea to claim unverified information or rumors about Cruz's father, then you wil answer your own question regarding why Hillary or Obama would think that they could gain a benefit from using an unverified information a few weeks before the elections. The real FACT that the FBI HAD information of a "possible" compromise of some members of the Trump administration would be a political problem for Trump even if such information was not verified.
    Last edited by pamak; 06-25-19 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by pamak View Post
    Stop your BS excuses!

    As I said, and you choose to ignore, Obama used the FBI input while Trump tries to keep things secret from his intelligence advisers! If you do not see any difference in that is because you exhibit the attitude of a subservient citizen who is reluctant to hold is president politically accountable for his conduct!
    While it seems to be a law that Presidents shouldn't take "free gifts" of foreign-produced info, I have yet to read about any laws requiring Presidents to share all intelligence with their intelligence agencies.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    M = Moral
    A = Authority to
    G = Govern,
    A = ***hole
    Shouldn't that last one be plural?

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius68 View Post
    There is no false equivalency: Mr. Obama used foreign information to open up an investigation on the campaign of a political opponent. Period.
    And he did so by working WITH his intelligence agencies.

    Which indicates that good things don't always happen when Presidents do coordinate with their agencies.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    While it seems to be a law that Presidents shouldn't take "free gifts" of foreign-produced info, I have yet to read about any laws requiring Presidents to share all intelligence with their intelligence agencies.
    I have already mentioned the issue that a political conduct should not be simply judged by if it is legal or not. If a legal conduct promotes corruption, it should not be tolerated. Lobbying is legal but supposedly Trump supporters were chanting 'drain the swamp". Backdoor deals in suspicious settings should receive political criticism, and it is very suspicious for a president to get info from foreigners without bringing the FBI on board to get the professionals' estimate regarding the profile and background of the foreigner.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
    I don't think you can state with certainty that Obama never garnered intelligence that didn't come from his agencies.
    As I said, if the argument is that we cannot be certain, then this applies to Trump's collusion also. What I am saying that Obama had no reason to do anything illegal or jeopardize his reputation a few months before living the WH. it was not his election to accept gambles and start getting information outside of the official channels for the Trump Campaign.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by pamak View Post
    The steele dossier was not used before the election. WE learned about it AFTER the elections. So, OBVIOUSLY, Clinton did not use Russian operatives to meddle with the election. Your theory just does not hold in anyway or form...
    The first application for the warrant on Carter Page was October 2016.

    It's not making the Dossier public, but it's still making use of it for political purposes, particularly since the source of the Dossier was not clarified in the applications.

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    Re: [W:775]Trump: I think Id take damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

    Quote Originally Posted by j brown's body View Post
    Link

    He is a vast, moral wasteland.
    Not only Trump, but Adam Schiff also jumps at the chance to gather opposition research, as evidenced by his arrangement to secretly meet two Russians who had told him they had naked pictures of Trump for him.

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