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Gov. Greg Abbott signs bill that will ban red light cameras statewide

Crosscheck said:
Wow, that really surprised me. I stand corrected then about red light cameras.

Perhaps if public safety is the number one concerned they need to work on better intersection control.


I find the lights that do a countdown from say 16 to 1 as to be the most helpful for a driver when coming upon a yellow light. If the countdown number is 4 to 16 you know you have enough time to drive through the intersection. If it shows 3 to 1 you should prepare to stop.
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I love those. They are a truckers best friend. Hell even the yellow flashing light before the intersection when its about to turn red is good.
 
OscarLevant said:
No, actually, in many intersections, you can turn and get stuck in the intersection because the traffic ahead of you, moving when you took the turn, suddenly backs up an stops, and you have no where to go and you can't complete the turn, and get a photo taken.

This happened in San Diego, (near the airport ) and it was happening a lot, and so a lawsuit was filed and the judge banned the photo-lights. In other words, a lot of people were getting unjustly ticketed.
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A while back, I was stopped at a recently red light (5 seconds or so). Some ignoramus behind me was not paying attention, and slammed into me at full speed. Sent my car forward quite a ways.

Fast forward a few weeks, and here I am with my injuries healing and significant repairs being done to my vehicle, and I open the mailbox to find.... a ticket for running that red light. When I got shoved forward, I triggered the camera, and wham, got a ticket. And those are an ENORMOUS pain in the arse to challenge and get rid of.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
I recall reading a while back about a small podunk town that decided to install a red light camera in their little town to free up the police for other matters. After a few months they uninstalled the light because the revenue from red light violations had dropped significantly. So much for public safety.
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Interestingly, that was actually in Lilburn, Georgia and the decrease became significant after a law passed to increase the length of the yellow light.

So not only was it clearly nothing other than trying to get more money, but the cameras themselves actually didn't even decrease the violations but the longer yellow light time period did.
 
Red light cameras don't make intersections safer, but they do cause more rear end collisions.

Red light cameras don't cut down on accidents or make intersections safer, a new study shows. ... But the trade-off is that there are more rear-end collisions as drivers slam on their brakes to avoid going into the intersection and are hit by vehicles from behind.
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Do red light cameras make streets safer? | Fort Worth Star-Telegram

And states with annual safety inspections aren't any safer than states without annual inspections. Just a money maker.
 
Gondwanaland said:
A while back, I was stopped at a recently red light (5 seconds or so). Some ignoramus behind me was not paying attention, and slammed into me at full speed. Sent my car forward quite a ways.

Fast forward a few weeks, and here I am with my injuries healing and significant repairs being done to my vehicle, and I open the mailbox to find.... a ticket for running that red light. When I got shoved forward, I triggered the camera, and wham, got a ticket. And those are an ENORMOUS pain in the arse to challenge and get rid of.
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You can beat that one, but the photo-lights are unjust in enough examples to warrant their being banned.
 
dcsports said:
The ones implemented in Houston actually bent over backwards to be fair. It captured three images, and the first was the vehicle entering the intersection while the light was red... not leaving it. After watching several local news stories on how these worked, I don't think you could really argue them. The only semi-controversy had to do with people running the light to make a right turn, and even there they had video and ticketed people who clearly didn't stop. They also closely tracked the timing changes, and lengthened the yellow light on some.

You could argue the ability to confront your accuser, or to remember when an incident occurred, but not wheter the vehicle ran the light.
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Thanks for that update. I have not been involved in the study for 6 years or more. It was proposed for my town and several nearby here in Florida, and fortunately it was rejected for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the state of Florida came up with standards and protocols. They have been very unpopular in most of the state. We were thankful that they were rejected by the local government.

I was briefed on the system (ATS) by several police officers. In those days, if any part of the vehicle was inside the box when the light was red, it was a very expensive ticket. Many businesses objected, as it was blatantly unfair.

Some group at a college in Tampa area conducted surveys and studies, and one of the not surprising things was that at the intersections where the cameras were, soon developed many rear-end collisions that came from panic stops by some drivers.

As a driver of a small car, my objection was that if one is following a tall truck in a small car, following at legally prescribed following distances, in many intersections one cannot even see the traffic light until one is well inside the intersection when it's too late. Patently unfair.
 
danarhea said:
How are they abused? If a camera sees you running a red light, its because you ran a red light.
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No actually it sees a car run a red light. Do you want to be prosecuted for something you didn't do if somebody else was driving?
 
Phys251 said:
Good. I like red light cameras in principle but they are abused 99% of the time.

I do worry about letting existing contracts expire, but that may have been a compromise that had to be made to get the bill to the governor's desk.
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It's because we like to neck about while waiting for the green, ain't it?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Thanks for that update. I have not been involved in the study for 6 years or more. It was proposed for my town and several nearby here in Florida, and fortunately it was rejected for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the state of Florida came up with standards and protocols. They have been very unpopular in most of the state. We were thankful that they were rejected by the local government.

I was briefed on the system (ATS) by several police officers. In those days, if any part of the vehicle was inside the box when the light was red, it was a very expensive ticket. Many businesses objected, as it was blatantly unfair.

Some group at a college in Tampa area conducted surveys and studies, and one of the not surprising things was that at the intersections where the cameras were, soon developed many rear-end collisions that came from panic stops by some drivers.

As a driver of a small car, my objection was that if one is following a tall truck in a small car, following at legally prescribed following distances, in many intersections one cannot even see the traffic light until one is well inside the intersection when it's too late. Patently unfair.
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If you can't see the traffic light until you're inside the intersection, you're following too close.
 
Deuce said:
If you can't see the traffic light until you're inside the intersection, you're following too close.
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Following distances are determined by state laws and guidelines, not a poster on the internet. During most driving conditions, I exceed the state recommended following distances. I do not tailgate. Those are MY standards.
 
There has been numerous studies on this. Statistically there is no direct evidence that red light cameras improve public safety, and there is no empirical data that they reduce the total number of vehicle accidents, reduce the number of pedestrians harmed at these intersections, reduce the total number of individuals injured in accidents, reduce the total number of severe injuries that involve trips to the hospital, or impact fatalities year on year.

What the evidence does show is red light cameras are effective at decreasing the number of vehicles running red lights that just changed over from yellow, that small window where the last car enters the intersection the moment the light turns red. But in complete contradiction at those same intersections deploying red light cameras saw an uptick in the number of accidents caused by vehicles not stopping running into the back of someone who did stop.

In the end we are talking about a behavioral shift in intersections where these red lights are deployed. To avoid a fine from a camera system, drivers will accept the higher risk of a rear end accident with all the damage and injuries those accidents tend to cause.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) a vehicle running into the back of another vehicle is still solidly the #1 type of accident year after year, and red light cameras made that statistic slightly worse.

The idea of traffic enforcement by camera over a police officer is one debate to have of course, but so is the cause and effect of these decisions because of these measures.

Abbott may have been right to ban the use of these cameras.
 
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