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Trump Says U.S. Will Hit Mexico With 5% Tariffs on All Goods

OlNate said:
lol...yeah, you rights are bloody amazing at it. :lamo

Tell me, do you plan to change your border patrol uniform to this:

It's ok, man, I know you're like super into being a conservative, and right now this is what they're about, so you have no choice but to sing it's praises. But in your quiet moments you have to know this is dumb, and that there's got to be a better way than a super expensive wall that doesn't cover the entire border. :shrug: It's stupidity a toddler could point out.
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Europe border walls: Growing number of anti-immigrant fencing erected

*shrug* they works pretty well in these countries.

hmm they must not be as informed as you are since they are building walls.
 
OlNate said:
Because we've had the conversation before, and you're fully dedicated to believing stupid things, like that there's an equivalency between house walls and border walls... :shrug:
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That's why the Pelosi residence is surrounded by one...right?

OlNate said:
The solutions are simple:

1) Make employing illegal workers a felony, with a mandatory minimum sentence for first time offenders, as well as considering all assets of the business owners to be the proceeds of crime, and therefore subject to seizure.
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Agreed.

OlNate said:
2) Legalize all drugs.
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That I can't agree with. I know personally what cocaine will do to a person. And now they have fentynol. Plus heroin is now more abundant and cheaper than ever. Pot yes...the rest? A resounding "no".

OlNate said:
3) Implement work initiatives so that migrant workers can come across legally, be tracked, and pay taxes. This one actually MAKES money.
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Agreed only if a citizen is not qualified or able to do the job.

OlNate said:
4) Implement a national ID system for citizens, and make it bulletproof.
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You know the Libbies will never stand for that. They'd call it racist. However I would support that.

OlNate said:
These solutions actually address the reasons why people come across illegally to begin with. Where there's a will there's a way...especially through a swiss cheese wall. Cure the disease, remove the symptoms. I know, I know, no stupid wall, no erection inducing Rambo approach, no shooting the place up...very boring. Yet any of these things would work better than a wall, because a wall won't work.
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Alone no. But back the wall up with the military and...that would most certainly work. Especially after a few of these "coyotes" get their heads blown off.
 
ocean515 said:
I just did. The Rio Grande Sector is responsible for the majority of apprehension on the SW Border. How much border infrastructure exists in that sector?


Why don't you show how walls are inefficient, against the data that shows they are?
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:lamo

Ocean. Let's just tackle this slowly...

1) Arrest rates are lower where there are walls. Cool, I acknowledge that.

2) America still has an illegal immigration problem - I'm sure you would acknowledge that.

3) This means people are going around the walls. Agree?

So...how exactly is a wall that doesn't go the entire length, or even the majority of the length, of the border going to stop illegal immigration? And if it isn't, why spend the money there, rather than on solutions that will? I have seen all kinds of statistics about what a wall does here or there, but never have had this sufficiently answered.
 
Buzz62 said:
That's why the Pelosi residence is surrounded by one...right?


Agreed.


That I can't agree with. I know personally what cocaine will do to a person. And now they have fentynol. Plus heroin is now more abundant and cheaper than ever. Pot yes...the rest? A resounding "no".


Agreed only if a citizen is not qualified or able to do the job.


You know the Libbies will never stand for that. They'd call it racist. However I would support that.


Alone no. But back the wall up with the military and...that would most certainly work. Especially after a few of these "coyotes" get their heads blown off.
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Legalizing all drugs in Portugal actually made drug use go down. But that's a matter of choice...it would appear America must decide whether they hate drugs or illegal immigration more...though their failure rate with both make one wonder how much they actually hate either of them...but that's a conversation for another day. The bottom line is, you're not going to get rid of drugs, that has been proven. Your only choice is where it comes from, who benefits, and what treatment options are available. The cost save on prisons alone would pay for treatment programs.

I don't understand how having an identity-theft proof form of identification would trigger liberals, but I'm not especially partisan, so I don't care. It would work.

Migrant workers are taking jobs Americans don't want, or don't want to work for the wages the industries pay. But, I would be willing to look at it on an industry by industry basis. Managed properly, it could be a boon for America's economy. It doesn't have to be carte blanche, only enough to address the issue.

As for your advocation of violence, how does a country maintain any moral standing when they kill when they have other options? Better options? You shouldn't be so eager to see dead Mexicans, it presents you in a way I'd hope you'd rather not be.
 
OlNate said:
:lamo

Ocean. Let's just tackle this slowly...

1) Arrest rates are lower where there are walls. Cool, I acknowledge that.

2) America still has an illegal immigration problem - I'm sure you would acknowledge that.

3) This means people are going around the walls. Agree?

So...how exactly is a wall that doesn't go the entire length, or even the majority of the length, of the border going to stop illegal immigration? And if it isn't, why spend the money there, rather than on solutions that will? I have seen all kinds of statistics about what a wall does here or there, but never have had this sufficiently answered.
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So what solutions would be a better solution? I've seen people talk about technology. Ok. What technology is currently in use?

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/688666.pdf

I've seen people talk about employer sanctions and penalties. Ok. What about forged documents and stolen Identities?


The fact is, walls aren't a solution, but they are a first line of defense.

DHS reports the "gotaway" rate, meaning the number of people seen, but not apprehended, is between 30 and 80% depending on sector.

That means at least 1 for every 2 apprehended successfully evade apprehension. In some sectors it's one for one. At current apprehension rates, that means 500,000, to 1 million illegal aliens are successfully entering without interdiction, beyond the 500,000 to 1,000,000 who are apprehended.
 
ocean515 said:
So what solutions would be a better solution? I've seen people talk about technology. Ok. What technology is currently in use?

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/688666.pdf

I've seen people talk about employer sanctions and penalties. Ok. What about forged documents and stolen Identities?


The fact is, walls aren't a solution, but they are a first line of defense.

DHS reports the "gotaway" rate, meaning the number of people seen, but not apprehended, is between 30 and 80% depending on sector.

That means at least 1 for every 2 apprehended successfully evade apprehension. In some sectors it's one for one. At current apprehension rates, that means 500,000, to 1 million illegal aliens are entering, beyond the 500,000 to 1,000,000 who are apprehended.
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See post #575
 
OlNate said:
See post #575
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With the exception of the drugs thing, I wouldn't disagree with your recommendations. However, with 20+ million illegals living in the US, they create their own economy.


That's what they have done here in Southern California. They don't live by the laws of the State, or the Nation. They live to avoid being caught by them and operate as they did in the countries they left behind.

Allowing more and more to enter the US unabated is foolish. The CBP statistics demonstrate that robust border infrastructure has a significant effect on border crossings. That is undeniable.
 
Buzz62 said:
Really?
And did you laugh a few years ago when Obama first brought this to everyone's attention?
Was it funny then?
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Illegal immigrants started under obama???? You must be young. Lol
 
ocean515 said:
So what solutions would be a better solution? I've seen people talk about technology. Ok. What technology is currently in use?

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/688666.pdf

I've seen people talk about employer sanctions and penalties. Ok. What about forged documents and stolen Identities?


The fact is, walls aren't a solution, but they are a first line of defense.

DHS reports the "gotaway" rate, meaning the number of people seen, but not apprehended, is between 30 and 80% depending on sector.

That means at least 1 for every 2 apprehended successfully evade apprehension. In some sectors it's one for one. At current apprehension rates, that means 500,000, to 1 million illegal aliens are successfully entering without interdiction, beyond the 500,000 to 1,000,000 who are apprehended.
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your posting facts.
they are not interested in facts.
 
OlNate said:
I'm uninformed, huh? Maybe you can explain the physics behind how a wall that doesn't go the entire distance of your border will solve illegal immigration. I can't wait to hear the flat-earth grade explanation.
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read the article. they pretty much disagree with you and that walls and barriers do work to keep people out or
make it more difficult for them.

no one said that it would solve the problem but it is a first step.
 
ocean515 said:
It's a shame emotion and political motivation is allowed to drive the narrative for so many.
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that is all these leftists have are nothing but appeal to emotion arguments on everything.
 
ludin said:
that is all these leftists have are nothing but appeal to emotion arguments on everything.
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Right. Trump the demagogue is the voice of reason.
 
ludin said:
read the article. they pretty much disagree with you and that walls and barriers do work to keep people out or
make it more difficult for them.

no one said that it would solve the problem but it is a first step.
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It is absurd - the reflection of a country that has lost its collective mind.
 
ocean515 said:
With the exception of the drugs thing, I wouldn't disagree with your recommendations. However, with 20+ million illegals living in the US, they create their own economy.


That's what they have done here in Southern California. They don't live by the laws of the State, or the Nation. They live to avoid being caught by them and operate as they did in the countries they left behind.

Allowing more and more to enter the US unabated is foolish. The CBP statistics demonstrate that robust border infrastructure has a significant effect on border crossings. That is undeniable.
Click to expand...

I have absolutely nothing against border control, nor do I have a problem with removing people from your country that aren't there legally, provided it's done in a humane way that takes into consideration the part that America has played (by hiring these folks, or buying their contraband) in getting them there. What we're debating here is simply #TheWall, and whether it's the right priority.

As for the drugs, please see post #579.
 
vegas giants said:
Illegal immigrants started under obama???? You must be young. Lol
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Huh...

There are times when the sheer...oddity of responses produced, leave me without words...that I can safely post back.
Conga-rats.
 
OlNate said:
Legalizing all drugs in Portugal actually made drug use go down. But that's a matter of choice...it would appear America must decide whether they hate drugs or illegal immigration more...though their failure rate with both make one wonder how much they actually hate either of them...but that's a conversation for another day. The bottom line is, you're not going to get rid of drugs, that has been proven. Your only choice is where it comes from, who benefits, and what treatment options are available. The cost save on prisons alone would pay for treatment programs.

I don't understand how having an identity-theft proof form of identification would trigger liberals, but I'm not especially partisan, so I don't care. It would work.

Migrant workers are taking jobs Americans don't want, or don't want to work for the wages the industries pay. But, I would be willing to look at it on an industry by industry basis. Managed properly, it could be a boon for America's economy. It doesn't have to be carte blanche, only enough to address the issue.

As for your advocation of violence, how does a country maintain any moral standing when they kill when they have other options? Better options? You shouldn't be so eager to see dead Mexicans, it presents you in a way I'd hope you'd rather not be.
Click to expand...

Going to work off the beer I drank last weekend. Will respond in a bit.
 
ludin said:
read the article. they pretty much disagree with you and that walls and barriers do work to keep people out or
make it more difficult for them.

no one said that it would solve the problem but it is a first step.
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If there are things that will work better, it's a bad first step. :shrug: Also, the issues Europe is facing isn't the same as you are with Mexico, in so many ways.
 
Trump either outright lies or changes his mind so often that nothing he says is to be taken seriously. He is a joke and a clown.
 
Buzz62 said:
Going to work off the beer I drank last weekend. Will respond in a bit.
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Wish I could...got a little carried away yesterday at an afternoon / early evening thing, and I'm hurting today.

I'll be here...enjoy your walk.
 
OlNate said:
I have absolutely nothing against border control, nor do I have a problem with removing people from your country that aren't there legally, provided it's done in a humane way that takes into consideration the part that America has played (by hiring these folks, or buying their contraband) in getting them there. What we're debating here is simply #TheWall, and whether it's the right priority.

As for the drugs, please see post #579.
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Humane way? What does that mean? If an illegal alien is caught in the US, they should be deported immediately. I don't disagree with a hearing of some sort before that occurs.


Every illegal alien living illegally in the US knows they are at risk of being deported. Doesn't matter if they have kids while illegally living here. They know it. That is a decision they made when they crossed the border. They decided that if caught, they could screw their families. Their choice. Why should anyone listen to their whines when they are caught?
 
OlNate said:
I have absolutely nothing against border control, nor do I have a problem with removing people from your country that aren't there legally, provided it's done in a humane way that takes into consideration the part that America has played (by hiring these folks, or buying their contraband) in getting them there. What we're debating here is simply #TheWall, and whether it's the right priority.

As for the drugs, please see post #579.
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That (bolded above) depends on what one considers to be the "right" priority. There seems to be vast disagreement on whether immigration (legal or not) is even a problem (much less, a crisis).
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That (bolded above) depends on what one considers to be the "right" priority. There seems to be vast disagreement on whether immigration (legal or not) is even a problem (much less, a crisis).
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Fair enough...but this appears to be a conversation amongst folks (them and me) who appear to agree that illegal immigration is a problem. I'm basing my prioritization on there being a finite amount of money available to address the situation, holding a rather fiscally conservative view, and advocating for spending money on the things that will work best first. I'm not sure what folks, who also think that illegal immigration is a problem, are basing their decision on when advocating that the wall needs to be prioritized.
 
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