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Thread: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

  1. #101
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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Republicans took over the White House and both chambers of Congress in 2000.
    Not exactly true. Democrats won the popular vote for president and made gains in both chambers of congress.

    2000 United States Senate elections - Wikipedia

    2000 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    So said 16 other candidates who ran against him in the Republican primaries and crooked Hillary in the general.
    Trump isn't intelligent enough to lay a trap. Which is why the russians weighed in to help him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    I'm a moderate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rickeroo View Post
    In the spirit of my post, blacks have been conditioned to view themselves as retards.

  3. #103
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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Not exactly true. Democrats won the popular vote for president and made gains in both chambers of congress.

    2000 United States Senate elections - Wikipedia

    2000 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
    But Democrats didn't gain the White House or either chamber of Congress. If that's how Republicans were "punished" for their impeachment of Clinton, I don't want to know what rewarding them looks like.

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Trump isn't intelligent enough to lay a trap. Which is why the russians weighed in to help him.
    LOL. Keep on believing that.

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    But Democrats didn't gain the White House or either chamber of Congress. If that's how Republicans were "punished" for their impeachment of Clinton, I don't want to know what rewarding them looks like.
    Fact is, the popular vote for president went for the Democrat and Democrats gained seats in both houses of congress. In other words, the Republican impeachment of Bill Clinton helped Democrats.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.315f3e90e75b

    Lessons For Democrats From Former President Clinton's Impeachment : NPR

    If I remember correctly, you yourself started a thread worrying about the pitfalls of impeachment.

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Fact is, the popular vote for president went for the Democrat and Democrats gained seats in both houses of congress. In other words, the Republican impeachment of Bill Clinton helped Democrats.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.315f3e90e75b

    Lessons For Democrats From Former President Clinton's Impeachment : NPR

    If I remember correctly, you yourself started a thread worrying about the pitfalls of impeachment.
    Then I want Democrats to be "punished" in 2020 after impeaching trump by retaking the White House and both chambers of Congress.

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I agree. The Democrats have the larger base and have had since FDR. Also 2016 was the most unique election we ever had. It was between the two most unwanted major party candidates in our history. 56% of all Americans viewed Hillary unfavorably or didn't like or want her, 60% viewed Trump unfavorably or didn't like or want him. That is the record for the highest unfavorable's going back to FDR. Goldwater in 1964 held the record for the highest unfavorable at 47% until Trump and Hillary came around. Barry can now rest in peace knowing he isn't the most unlike presidential candidate anymore.

    Yes, turnout was an very important factor in 2016. The Democratic base had a six point advantage in numbers, but that shrunk to three among those who actually voted. Meaning the Republicans had the higher percentage turnout. Hillary's ho hum campaign and lack of campaign appearances, hitting the trail led to a lack of enthusiasm for the democratic base to turn out. Trump was always full of energy and that inspired his base. His supporters would go to the four corners of the earth for him, Hillary's, some wouldn't even go to the polls for her.

    Strange as it might seem, the same thing occurred in 2000. The Democratic base had a 5 point electoral advantage, but only 3 when it came to actual turnout. The statue Gore didn't inspire either. If the Democratic base had turned out, Gore and Hillary would have both won.

    I don't think the Democratic base will have that problem in 2020 regardless of whom is their nominee. Trump is a great motivator even if their candidate isn't. That was seen during the midterms. The Democratic base had only a three point party advantage in 2018 but come turnout, the democratic advantage increased to five points. It was the Republicans who stayed home more than the democrats.
    Good morning!

    I believe you may find this Axios article interesting, as it speaks to your last paragraph:

    (Axios) The Democrats' 100-year flood

    Not surprising in general, but to me surprising in specific quantity, the article claims Trump lost 3% of his core demographic in the past 4 years:

    And Trump voters aren't a growing demographic group. The share of whites with less than a 4-year degree Trump's constituency dropped by 3% from 2014 to 2018.
    That's large enough to have a substantive effect upon the election, and I'm blow-away at the size of the number. It really illustrates the age differences in each party's base. It also seems to show that Trump might be reflecting a political aberration - a pause - in the steady changing of America's citizenry to those of minority and colour. I'm thinking this Trump stuff might be sort of a "last hurray" of sorts, of traditional American WASP male political dominance.

    Then we have this:

    turnout rates would likely go up for everybody. But:

    Older white people already tend to vote at high rates, and they're close to their maximum turnout already.

    By contrast, you'll see bigger turnout increases among young people, people of color, and low-income people generally important constituencies for the Democratic Party because they vote in lower numbers.

    From 2014 to 2018, turnout among whites with a 4-year degree went up 17%, while non-white voters' turnout increased by 15%.
    The article does state that the expected Trump turnout will also be high, but not Dem high. And a key point is made: Trump's core demo traditionally has a very high-turnout, even without Trump; the Dem core demos traditionally have a low turn-out rate. This implies the Dems have far more headroom to increased turnout. And this may have been seen, in 2018. I think I agree.

    So if we take the politics aside, we seem to see the general demographic characterizations seem to favor the Dems quite well. So what they would seem to need, is a highly charismatic candidate, similar to the Charisma Obama exhibited in 2008. If they do that, they seem to be in reasonable shape. These trends also would seem to show that perhaps tacking Left might be the way to go. And this last, is something I don't say very easily!
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

  8. #108
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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I don't know what to say, here. Trump clearly seems to be asking for it. It's getting kinda' hard not to oblige him.

    It might be best to start the investigative hearings, and see where they go.
    Trump wants them to impeach for the same reason that the Democrats were giddy as Hell every time the idiot Republicans voted to overturn the ACA. It was nothing but symbolic votes that the GOP knew would go nowhere fast while Obama was in office. Trump wants the red meat to show his drooling fan base how mean everyone is to him.

    Granted, impeachment would hurt him (even more) in the court of public opinion, but that damage has been done anyway, and the Democrats don't need to waste time on an impeachment process and vote that will die as soon as it gets to the Senate. The Republicans in the Senate have thrown in with Trump. They will not vote to remove him from office.

    I think, as you said, the Democrats should investigate the Hell out of Trump. The investigations will damage Trump even further, and the Democrats won't look dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The FBI isn't an intelligence agency.

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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    If Trump gets to decide whether or not to comply with subpoenas, our grand experiment in representative government is over.

    There are those on this board who have declared that the president is not accountable to Congress. If the USSC agrees, that means the president can do whatever he wants whenever he wants.

    There was a time when Washington politicians had shame (think Nixon). Nixon resigned when the leaders of his own party in the Senate went to the WH and advised him that he would not survive an impeachment trial. This will not happen today. Trump told us long ago that he could shoot someone and not lose any votes, that included the votes in the U.S. Senate. Whatever is right, whatever is wrong is irrelevant. All that matters is how does one get re-elected. Trump supporters will destroy any GOP member in their primary who dares oppose this president. His base does not care about law or justice.

  10. #110
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    Re: Democratic impeachment calls swell as McGahn defies subpoena

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Trump wants them to impeach for the same reason that the Democrats were giddy as Hell every time the idiot Republicans voted to overturn the ACA. It was nothing but symbolic votes that the GOP knew would go nowhere fast while Obama was in office. Trump wants the red meat to show his drooling fan base how mean everyone is to him.

    Granted, impeachment would hurt him (even more) in the court of public opinion, but that damage has been done anyway, and the Democrats don't need to waste time on an impeachment process and vote that will die as soon as it gets to the Senate. The Republicans in the Senate have thrown in with Trump. They will not vote to remove him from office.

    I think, as you said, the Democrats should investigate the Hell out of Trump. The investigations will damage Trump even further, and the Democrats won't look dumb.
    I say start with an official investigation into Presidential misconduct, which I believe is being voted upon in the House today. Then see how the political opinion turns as Trump's secrets come out. Take it from there, as it goes.

    The most important thing at this moment is to turn public opinion, and that requires Trump's secrets to be bared.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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