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US: Iran military could misidentify airliners amid tension

TU Curmudgeon

TU Curmudgeon

B.A. (Sarc), LLb. (Lex Sarcasus), PhD (Sarc.)
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From Associated Press

US: Iran military could misidentify airliners amid tension
​

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Commercial airliners flying over the Persian Gulf risk being targeted by “miscalculation or misidentification” from the Iranian military amid heightened tensions between the Islamic Republic and the U.S., American diplomats warned Saturday, even as both Washington and Tehran say they don’t seek war.

The warning relayed by U.S. diplomatic posts from the Federal Aviation Administration, though dismissed by Iran, underscored the risks the current tensions pose to a region critical to both global air travel and trade. Oil tankers allegedly have faced sabotage and Yemen rebel drones attacked a crucial Saudi oil pipeline over the last week.

Meanwhile on Saturday, Iraqi officials said ExxonMobil Corp. began evacuating staff from Basra, and the island nation of Bahrain ordered its citizens out of Iraq and Iran over “the recent escalations and threats.”

However, U.S. officials have yet to publicly explain the threats they perceive coming from Iran, some two weeks after the White House ordered an aircraft carrier and B-52s bombers into the region. The U.S. also has ordered nonessential staff out of its diplomatic posts in Iraq.

COMMENT:-

This is a very wise precaution because it has happened before when they (on 3 July 1988) shot down a commercial airliner in its normal flight path in an acknowledged air traffic corridor (and then claimed that it thought the aircraft was a fighter what might possibly be preparing to consider attacking their assets). Sure they issued notes of regret for the loss of human lives, but they never formally apologized or acknowledged wrongdoing and, in fact, have never been found guilty of anything (mostly because they paid off the complainants).

Or am I confusing things?
​
 
Or, Iran might down airliners because they are that bad... ran by ideological lunatics bent on killing people (similar to just about everyone else over there, including us.)
 
OrphanSlug said:
Or, Iran might down airliners because they are that bad... ran by ideological lunatics bent on killing people (similar to just about everyone else over there, including us.)
Click to expand...


Iran has not done that in the past, the US on the other hand
 
Great.

So now I'll be suspiscious if a passenger plane goes down near Iran.
 
Tigerace117 said:
But they certainly have organized and conducted plenty of terrorist attacks in the past
Click to expand...

As has the US. In fact, an American president sold weapons on the sly to Iran to get a secret stash of money to support terrorists in a foreign country.
 
Grand Mal said:
As has the US. In fact, an American president sold weapons on the sly to Iran to get a secret stash of money to support terrorists in a foreign country.
Click to expand...

Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Please provide evidence of the US ordering bombings of community centers, assassinating or attempting to assasinate foreign diplomats, deliberately and explicitly targeting civilians, hijacking airliners and more up to the present day.

There is no moral equivalence here, as much as you wish otherwise.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Please provide evidence of the US ordering bombings of community centers, assassinating or attempting to assasinate foreign diplomats, deliberately and explicitly targeting civilians, hijacking airliners and more up to the present day.

There is no moral equivalence here, as much as you wish otherwise.
Click to expand...

Moral equivalence? How does that work? How do you quantify the use of terror? I guess a body count might be a start, and also one could always quibble over the use of the word 'terror'. Might have to also decide which weighs more- a Muslim victim of terror or a Latin American victim.
But it kind of reminds me of an old, bad joke. You might have heard it- the punchline is, "We've already established what you are. Now we're just haggling over the price."
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
This is a very wise precaution because it has happened before when they (on 3 July 1988) shot down a commercial airliner in its normal flight path in an acknowledged air traffic corridor (and then claimed that it thought the aircraft was a fighter what might possibly be preparing to consider attacking their assets). Sure they issued notes of regret for the loss of human lives, but they never formally apologized or acknowledged wrongdoing and, in fact, have never been found guilty of anything (mostly because they paid off the complainants).

Or am I confusing things?
[/INDENT]
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing things, unless I'm reading your comment wrong. It wasn't Iran that shot down that airliner, but the U.S. Navy, so maybe the cautionary not shouldn't be direct at Iran, but the U.S. military. This smell like a false flag setup to me.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Or, Iran might down airliners because they are that bad... ran by ideological lunatics bent on killing people (similar to just about everyone else over there, including us.)
Click to expand...

The U.S. shot down an Iranian airliner, killing almost 300 civilians, and never apologized for it.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Please provide evidence of the US ordering bombings of community centers
Click to expand...

There are plenty of examples of the U.S. committing acts of terror on civilian populaces. One that immediately comes to mind is the intentional decimation of Iraq's water infrastructure which led to the deaths of thousands.

If you want a more directly comparable example the Amiriyah shelter bombing comes to mind, where ~400 civilians were killed in a deliberate targeted bombing by the U.S.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Please provide evidence of the US ordering bombings of community centers, assassinating or attempting to assasinate foreign diplomats, deliberately and explicitly targeting civilians, hijacking airliners and more up to the present day.

There is no moral equivalence here, as much as you wish otherwise.
Click to expand...

Really? You don't think the CIA or their affiliates have ever done anything like that? You really and sincerely believe an American government agency has never once assassinated a foreign diplomat?

You really and sincerely believe an American government agency has never once targeted and/or assassinated a civilian?

Wow. Just Wow.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From Associated Press

US: Iran military could misidentify airliners amid tension
​

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Commercial airliners flying over the Persian Gulf risk being targeted by “miscalculation or misidentification” from the Iranian military amid heightened tensions between the Islamic Republic and the U.S., American diplomats warned Saturday, even as both Washington and Tehran say they don’t seek war.

The warning relayed by U.S. diplomatic posts from the Federal Aviation Administration, though dismissed by Iran, underscored the risks the current tensions pose to a region critical to both global air travel and trade. Oil tankers allegedly have faced sabotage and Yemen rebel drones attacked a crucial Saudi oil pipeline over the last week.

Meanwhile on Saturday, Iraqi officials said ExxonMobil Corp. began evacuating staff from Basra, and the island nation of Bahrain ordered its citizens out of Iraq and Iran over “the recent escalations and threats.”

However, U.S. officials have yet to publicly explain the threats they perceive coming from Iran, some two weeks after the White House ordered an aircraft carrier and B-52s bombers into the region. The U.S. also has ordered nonessential staff out of its diplomatic posts in Iraq.

COMMENT:-

This is a very wise precaution because it has happened before when they (on 3 July 1988) shot down a commercial airliner in its normal flight path in an acknowledged air traffic corridor (and then claimed that it thought the aircraft was a fighter what might possibly be preparing to consider attacking their assets). Sure they issued notes of regret for the loss of human lives, but they never formally apologized or acknowledged wrongdoing and, in fact, have never been found guilty of anything (mostly because they paid off the complainants).

Or am I confusing things?
​
Click to expand...

Yes, you are confusing things. In 1988, the US shot down an Iranian passenger jet with a missile fired from the USS Vincennes aircraft. The plane was shot down over the Strait of Hormuz, killing all 290 people on board. The passenger plane, which was in Iranian airspace, had been incorrectly identified as a fighter jet. But in July 1988, Iran and Iraq were in the midst of a war that included attacks on each other’s oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. But, I'm sure the US apologized. 1988 was more than 30 years ago. I'm pretty certain that our technology has advanced greatly in 30 years in order to be able to distinguish the differences on radar between a large commercial jet liner and a fighter jet.

Have we forgotten about Malaysia Airlines Flight 17? Russia shot down that commercial plane on 17 July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board. It was shot down by a Russian fighter jet firing a guided missile. The Dutch Safety Board and the Dutch-led joint investigation team, concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.

I think it's a wise decision not to fly commercial airlines directly over conflict zones.

260px-Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_%286658105143%29.jpg
 
Fishking said:
I think you are confusing things, unless I'm reading your comment wrong. It wasn't Iran that shot down that airliner, but the U.S. Navy, so maybe the cautionary not shouldn't be direct at Iran, but the U.S. military. This smell like a false flag setup to me.
Click to expand...

You mean that the Iranians did NOT shoot down a regularly scheduled American airliner flying over the United States of America in a normal civil air corridor on its normal course but (with the appropriate changes) the United States of America did?

Oh come on now. Do you really expect anyone to believe that?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The U.S. shot down an Iranian airliner, killing almost 300 civilians, and never apologized for it.
Click to expand...

You're lying.

[The above officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life Gun Owners for Jesus", and “The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]
 
Do you believe that Bolton/Trump are crazy enough to shoot down an airliner to trigger a war? I do.
 
JustHanging said:
Really? You don't think the CIA or their affiliates have ever done anything like that? You really and sincerely believe an American government agency has never once assassinated a foreign diplomat?

You really and sincerely believe an American government agency has never once targeted and/or assassinated a civilian?

Wow. Just Wow.
Click to expand...

There’s no evidence of the “CIA and their associates” doing any such thing. Just spouting the “evil CIA does things for the evils” meme is not evidence of anything.

Do you have any actual evidence of the US murdering foreign diplomats across the globe?

Going “wow. Just wow” is an incredibly weak argument.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
There are plenty of examples of the U.S. committing acts of terror on civilian populaces. One that immediately comes to mind is the intentional decimation of Iraq's water infrastructure which led to the deaths of thousands.

If you want a more directly comparable example the Amiriyah shelter bombing comes to mind, where ~400 civilians were killed in a deliberate targeted bombing by the U.S.
Click to expand...


Gee, you mean efforts during a war to force another government—an extremely brutal one—-to surrender?

It’s regrettable, but stuff like that happens in war.

Iran is not at war with Argentina, or Israel, or any of the countries in which it launched a terrorist attacks. So no, there is no equivalence between the two.
 
Grand Mal said:
Moral equivalence? How does that work? How do you quantify the use of terror? I guess a body count might be a start, and also one could always quibble over the use of the word 'terror'. Might have to also decide which weighs more- a Muslim victim of terror or a Latin American victim.
But it kind of reminds me of an old, bad joke. You might have heard it- the punchline is, "We've already established what you are. Now we're just haggling over the price."
Click to expand...

So in other words you don’t have evidence of the US doing any such actions and are desperately trying to handwave it away(are Argentinean Jews not considered Latin American?)
 
HumblePi said:
Yes, you are confusing things. In 1988, the US shot down an Iranian passenger jet with a missile fired from the USS Vincennes aircraft. The plane was shot down over the Strait of Hormuz, killing all 290 people on board. The passenger plane, which was in Iranian airspace, had been incorrectly identified as a fighter jet. But in July 1988, Iran and Iraq were in the midst of a war that included attacks on each other’s oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. But, I'm sure the US apologized. 1988 was more than 30 years ago. I'm pretty certain that our technology has advanced greatly in 30 years in order to be able to distinguish the differences on radar between a large commercial jet liner and a fighter jet.
Click to expand...

Your lieing.

[The above officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life Gun Owners for Jesus", and “The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

HumblePi said:
Have we forgotten about Malaysia Airlines Flight 17? Russia shot down that commercial plane on 17 July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board. It was shot down by a Russian fighter jet firing a guided missile. The Dutch Safety Board and the Dutch-led joint investigation team, concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.
Click to expand...

1. Since when have the Russians been installing this

buk.jpg​

on their fighters?

2. So far no one has actually determined WHO fired the missile (which was available to BOTH sides in the Ukraine.

HumblePi said:
I think it's a wise decision not to fly commercial airlines directly over conflict zones.
Click to expand...

I quite agree. I'd even extend that to include "or anywhere close".
 
Last edited:
TU Curmudgeon said:
You mean that the Iranians did NOT shoot down a regularly scheduled American airliner flying over the United States of America in a normal civil air corridor on its normal course but (with the appropriate changes) the United States of America did?

Oh come on now. Do you really expect anyone to believe that?
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? This is ridiculous in how far off you are.

Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[2][3]
Click to expand...

I don't know how you've confused this so much.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Do you believe that Bolton/Trump are crazy enough to shoot down an airliner to trigger a war? I do.
Click to expand...

Why are you giving this impression that this is somehow unique to the Trump admin? This type of thing has happened many times. It's almost as American as apple pie.
 
Tigerace117 said:
So in other words you don’t have evidence of the US doing any such actions and are desperately trying to handwave it away(are Argentinean Jews not considered Latin American?)
Click to expand...

Tell me this. Say country A is ruled by a brutally repressive regime. The people in A put aside their political differences, unite under an umbrella organization and start a civil war to try to overthrow their oppressors. Country B, a very strong military power, prefers the politics of the rulers to the insurgents and supports the rulers with money, weapons and personnel to the point where B's officers are running A's military while the military is scouring the countryside and slaughtering tens of thousands of civilians. Is B a state sponsor of terror?
 
Grand Mal said:
Tell me this. Say country A is ruled by a brutally repressive regime. The people in A put aside their political differences, unite under an umbrella organization and start a civil war to try to overthrow their oppressors. Country B, a very strong military power, prefers the politics of the rulers to the insurgents and supports the rulers with money, weapons and personnel to the point where B's officers are running A's military while the military is scouring the countryside and slaughtering tens of thousands of civilians. Is B a state sponsor of terror?
Click to expand...

Still no actual evidence for your claims I see. On top of that, provide evidence of what countries the US has "run their military".

Not only that, provide evidence of the US doing any of what you claim at any point within the last, hmm, twenty five years. Iran has continued sponsoring terrorist attacks and trying to kill diplomats up to the present day.

And then we can play the fun game called "considering how Canada loyally supported Britain's many wars of imperial conquest, why do Canadians feel they are any more morally justify than those they disparage?"
 
Tigerace117 said:
Still no actual evidence for your claims I see. On top of that, provide evidence of what countries the US has "run their military".

Not only that, provide evidence of the US doing any of what you claim at any point within the last, hmm, twenty five years. Iran has continued sponsoring terrorist attacks and trying to kill diplomats up to the present day.

And then we can play the fun game called "considering how Canada loyally supported Britain's many wars of imperial conquest, why do Canadians feel they are any more morally justify than those they disparage?"
Click to expand...

Is country B a state sponsor of terrorism?
 
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