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Key House Democrat plans to take 'enforcement action' against Justice Department

I support impeachment because it's the right thing to do on principle. But, I also like the idea of getting each of those slimeball Senators on record as supporting lawlessness. Then Democrats can run ads against the Senators that we have on record as supporting criminality. Sure, that won't make a difference in R+10 states but, in R+5 it could.
I agree with putting everyone on record and letting the public decide who is not acting in good faith


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I pretty much agree with everything here, except the final sentence. If Pelosi believes that impeaching Trump, whose "high crimes and misdemeanors" are legion, and documented for all the world to see (along with witness tampering so ham-fisted that a mob boss would be proud) would not pass the Senate, then an end-run impeachment of Barr, who the damned Senate just confirmed despite 19-pages of evidence that as AG, he would never allow the president of the U.S. to be indicted for any reason whatsoever, is doomed to failure.

Not only that, it would provide a wealth of video clips for 2020 GOP campaign ads of naughty democrats running amok, trying to oust the president's entire cabinet (because by then, most cabinet members will be literally in Contempt of Congress), none of which is helpful when courting middle-of-the-line voters and Independents.

Also, Pelosi is well aware that the House may be forced to do impeachment hearings because not to would present an untenable precedent for future presidential behavior. She, and Democrats, are in a tough spot here, and the GOP knows it. Too bad the GOP cares more for itself than it does for the damned country.

I pretty much agree. Impeachment could very well backfire on the Democrats. Especially if it looks like a very partisan political vendetta. One's view on impeachment is very partisan. 60% of Democrats want it, 32% of independents favor it while only 12% of Republicans. Overall, nationwide that is just 36% in favor of impeachment. For impeachment to work you must have a coalition of Democrats and Independents along with some Republicans. Impeachment in my opinion is a waste of time, energy and money if you don't have at least 50% of independents favoring it. Probably closer to 60% which with their seats in jeopardy you might be able to win over some Republican senators.

Still, with only 47 Democrats in the senate they would need a defection of 20 Republicans. That is if all Democratic senators vote guilty which all may not. Manchin could desert the Democrats, Trump's approval rating in West Virginia is over 60%. Jones, Alabama is another one who could desert. Trump is also over 60% approval in Alabama with Jones up for reelection in 2020. There may be a couple of more, but those two stand out.

Personally, I think Trump is more of a valuable assets to the Democrats by letting Trump be Trump when it comes to the election of 2020. Pelosi is politically savvy, I sure she knows this. Impeachment is a political process with all its pluses and minuses. If the Democrats can't convince a vast majority of Americans impeachment is warranted, it won't work and as I stated earlier, very well could backfire. Seen as more or less a coup to try to remove a sitting president by the opposition party as Bill Clinton's impeachment was seen. The GOP paid a price for that one. My thoughts on it anyway.
 
I know you are. So was I; Pelosi realizes, I think, they eventually the House will have to start impeachment proceedings against Trump; if they also start impeaching his cabinet, that just makes Democrats look like crazed obstructionists running amok.


You poor delusional people on the left ...

"Democrats, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have been hitting the airways to declare that the evidence of impeachable acts by President Donald Trump is not only clearly established by the Special Counsel Report but additional impeachable acts are unfolding every day. However, on Wednesday, a closed door caucus was held with a very different and apparently uncontested view: no impeachment.

According to reports, none of the firebrands calling for impeachment publicly even raised the issue in the caucus. Instead, Pelosi raised it to reaffirm again that it was a non-starter. What may be red meat for Democratic voters on MSNBC is clearly off the menu for not just the House leadership but the House rank-and-file.

... Pelosi said that they will not initiate impeachment proceedings. Period. Not a single member voiced a dissenting view. ..."


Report: Democrats Hold Closed Door Caucus Rejecting Impeachment Move . . . Without A Single Dissenting Voice – JONATHAN TURLEY
 
When the Republicans demanded the entire FBI file on the Clinton investigation and all 302's relating to underlying evidence, interviews, etc, the DOJ was told by Chaffetz "you don't get to decide what I see, I get to see all of it!", and the DOJ turned over the entire Clinton FBI file to the Republicans.

When the Republicans demanded hundreds of thousands of documents relating to the ongoing Russia investigation, the FBI turned over those documents, too.

These were unprecedented requests, that the DOJ and FBI eventually caved to, but now they are refusing to do the same for the Democratic committees, and refusing to turn over a single document.

Adam Schiff plans to take 'enforcement action' against Justice Department - CNNPolitics



BTW, the law allows grand jury information relating to intelligence matters to be turned over to the intelligence committees, so don't anybody give me that "they're asking Barr to break the law!" ****, because that doesn't apply here at all.

Enough is enough. Barr has politicized the DOJ, mislead Congress, purposely slow walked the SCO report, and has refused to turn over documents that the DOJ has previously given Republicans.

Just impeach him.

They better do something. This guy is at war with the Constitution, and his idiot followers are on board with it.

It's time to crush the MAGA morons.
 
I pretty much agree. Impeachment could very well backfire on the Democrats. Especially if it looks like a very partisan political vendetta. One's view on impeachment is very partisan. 60% of Democrats want it, 32% of independents favor it while only 12% of Republicans. Overall, nationwide that is just 36% in favor of impeachment. For impeachment to work you must have a coalition of Democrats and Independents along with some Republicans. Impeachment in my opinion is a waste of time, energy and money if you don't have at least 50% of independents favoring it. Probably closer to 60% which with their seats in jeopardy you might be able to win over some Republican senators.

Still, with only 47 Democrats in the senate they would need a defection of 20 Republicans. That is if all Democratic senators vote guilty which all may not. Manchin could desert the Democrats, Trump's approval rating in West Virginia is over 60%. Jones, Alabama is another one who could desert. Trump is also over 60% approval in Alabama with Jones up for reelection in 2020. There may be a couple of more, but those two stand out.

Personally, I think Trump is more of a valuable assets to the Democrats by letting Trump be Trump when it comes to the election of 2020. Pelosi is politically savvy, I sure she knows this. Impeachment is a political process with all its pluses and minuses. If the Democrats can't convince a vast majority of Americans impeachment is warranted, it won't work and as I stated earlier, very well could backfire. Seen as more or less a coup to try to remove a sitting president by the opposition party as Bill Clinton's impeachment was seen. The GOP paid a price for that one. My thoughts on it anyway.

Do independents actually care about the institutions of government, or is that another democratic/republican partisan battle?
 
Adam "Look at my latest facelift!" Schiff?

OMG - you guys and your guys! :lamo

Yeah - Trump until 2025.

And that's all you have is making fun of how someone looks?
 
Do independents actually care about the institutions of government, or is that another democratic/republican partisan battle?

I found that most independents don't follow politics much unless it effects them personally. That is until election time. They're not all that partisan. They are too busy with their daily life and paying more attention to their favorite sport teams than politics or the goings on in Washington. In Nov 2016 independents made up 40% of the total electorate, but only 31% of those who actually tuned out to vote. Voting or who won wasn't all that important to them as it was to the partisans who affiliate with both major parties. Put it this way, whereas Republicans and Democrats had a horse in the race, independents didn't.
 
I found that most independents don't follow politics much unless it effects them personally. That is until election time. They're not all that partisan. They are too busy with their daily life and paying more attention to their favorite sport teams than politics or the goings on in Washington. In Nov 2016 independents made up 40% of the total electorate, but only 31% of those who actually tuned out to vote. Voting or who won wasn't all that important to them as it was to the partisans who affiliate with both major parties. Put it this way, whereas Republicans and Democrats had a horse in the race, independents didn't.

Do independents care about checks and balances, an independent judiciary, abuses of power, or basic Norms of government?
 
You know, I used to think so too.

And then 2016.

There was some chicanery afoot. But I think McConnel holding up Garland is unforgivable. Also Republicans broke the record on filibuster then scorched harry Reid for going nuclear. And now use that as an example to become more extreme. They are the grave diggers of American politics imo.

And don't even get me started on their attack dogs in the media.


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Do independents care about checks and balances, an independent judiciary, abuses of power, or basic Norms of government?

I'm sure some do. But I also think independents have become tired of all the partisanship going on in government today. They tend to put it on ignore.There's a reason independents have risen from 30% in 2006 to 44% of the electorate today. They're turned off by the antics of both major parties. Perhaps they for the most part just shrug viewing all of this goings on in Washington as part of the partisan politics they really dislike.

I'd say most independents aren't in either the pro Trump or anti Trump camp. Those independents who lean toward on party or the other probably are. I'd say the leans pay more attention to Washington than what I call true or pure independents with no leans. But the leans don't pay even close to the attention that the partisan who affiliate or call themselves Republicans and Democrats do.

Put it this way, we average approximately 55% voter turnout in presidential elections. That means roughly 45% don't give a darn who wins or loses. Midterm the turn out is closer to 38%. That an average of 62% of all Americans who don't care who controls congress.

Politics isn't all that important to independents or they'd be Republicans and Democrats instead. Go to question 56, generic presidential vote. Independents respond 31% Democratic candidate, 25% Trump, 18% it depends. Basically meaning it depends on whom the Democrats nominate. Then 27% of independents responding will not vote.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fs1r87zj1f/econTabReport.pdf

27% of independents today don't care who wins or loses the 2020 presidential election. They aren't going to vote. Compare that percentage to the percentage of Democrats who say they will not vote, 3% and the percentage of Republicans who say they will not vote 4%.

I think those who are sick and tired of all the shenanigans and antics going on in Washington are growing at a fairly fast clip. They've basically put Washington on ignore. Scroll through the poll, you'll see on China tariffs, 34% of independents don't care. Most trusted branch of government, 17% of independents say the executive branch, 9% the legislative branch, 21% SCOTUS. That 57% of independents who either doesn't trust any branch or don't care. You'll find approximately the same on almost any subject asked.
 
I pretty much agree. Impeachment could very well backfire on the Democrats. Especially if it looks like a very partisan political vendetta. One's view on impeachment is very partisan. 60% of Democrats want it, 32% of independents favor it while only 12% of Republicans. Overall, nationwide that is just 36% in favor of impeachment. For impeachment to work you must have a coalition of Democrats and Independents along with some Republicans. Impeachment in my opinion is a waste of time, energy and money if you don't have at least 50% of independents favoring it. Probably closer to 60% which with their seats in jeopardy you might be able to win over some Republican senators.

Still, with only 47 Democrats in the senate they would need a defection of 20 Republicans. That is if all Democratic senators vote guilty which all may not. Manchin could desert the Democrats, Trump's approval rating in West Virginia is over 60%. Jones, Alabama is another one who could desert. Trump is also over 60% approval in Alabama with Jones up for reelection in 2020. There may be a couple of more, but those two stand out.

Personally, I think Trump is more of a valuable assets to the Democrats by letting Trump be Trump when it comes to the election of 2020. Pelosi is politically savvy, I sure she knows this. Impeachment is a political process with all its pluses and minuses. If the Democrats can't convince a vast majority of Americans impeachment is warranted, it won't work and as I stated earlier, very well could backfire. Seen as more or less a coup to try to remove a sitting president by the opposition party as Bill Clinton's impeachment was seen. The GOP paid a price for that one. My thoughts on it anyway.
Either they feel the evidence warrants impeachment and they should make that vase or they should stop mak8ng sllegstions they cant back up

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Remember what Chuck Schumer said - all elected officials must do everything the intelligence communities want or they will destroy that politician. After ranting we MUST all accept anything anyone in the DOJ, FBI and CIA says - now the Democratic Party does another 180 going on the attack.

Never think there is anything any Democratic official or MSM talking head says has any integrity or truth to it. It is more likely than not within a year they'll be ranting and sobbing the exact opposite. There is no truth, no intellectual integrity in anything they say because they are perfectly amoral.
 
Either they feel the evidence warrants impeachment and they should make that vase or they should stop mak8ng sllegstions they cant back up

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I do think more and more people are beginning to feel exactly that way. Not that I have the numbers to back that up. It's just I have the feeling that after 2 1/2 years of this stuff, with the Mueller report out, enough is enough. It could be seen as piling it on for a partisan political advantage. If so, it might just backfire.
 
I do think more and more people are beginning to feel exactly that way. Not that I have the numbers to back that up. It's just I have the feeling that after 2 1/2 years of this stuff, with the Mueller report out, enough is enough. It could be seen as piling it on for a partisan political advantage. If so, it might just backfire.
Its irresponsible to run around making allegations that you cant back up. They kept telling everyone to wait for the Mueller report, now its done. Make the case or move on.

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Its irresponsible to run around making allegations that you cant back up. They kept telling everyone to wait for the Mueller report, now its done. Make the case or move on.

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No collusion. Accept it and move on. Exactly. Very tiresome.
 
There is no way trump can win in 2020, he does not have the votes.

He won by 78,000 votes spread over four states, all dependent on farming.

Trumps trade wars have lost those states and most likely even more.

Also we will be aware of the Putin's fix, and comeys last minute announcement of reopening an investigation.

The only way he wins is if Russia actually hacks even more voting machines this time around...

Don't worry. Trump could never win a Republican primary, let alone the general election as every poll shows. So don't worry. There is no chance that he can defeat President Hillary Clinton's re-election. He won't even be the Republican candidate. The Democrat's choice, Republican John Kasich, will win some states, but her re-election is a lock.

However, if in theory Trump were candidate, his election would depend upon blue collar workers, not farmers.
 
I didn't say you were a democrat.

But anybody who believes that Pelosi is gonna start impeachment proceedings is delusional. :)

Then kindly don't quote me and start with "You...on the left..." Thanks.

And although I don't want to see impeachment, Pelosi and the House Judiciary Committee might not have a choice. Trump is flaunting his corrupt and illegal behavior; the Democratic base (i.e. voters) may insist, because doing nothing makes the party look weak and impotent, not to mention sets an abysmal precedent for future presidential behavior.

Which I have said before in this very thread; apparently you missed it.
 
When the Republicans demanded the entire FBI file on the Clinton investigation and all 302's relating to underlying evidence, interviews, etc, the DOJ was told by Chaffetz "you don't get to decide what I see, I get to see all of it!", and the DOJ turned over the entire Clinton FBI file to the Republicans.

When the Republicans demanded hundreds of thousands of documents relating to the ongoing Russia investigation, the FBI turned over those documents, too.

These were unprecedented requests, that the DOJ and FBI eventually caved to, but now they are refusing to do the same for the Democratic committees, and refusing to turn over a single document.

Adam Schiff plans to take 'enforcement action' against Justice Department - CNNPolitics



BTW, the law allows grand jury information relating to intelligence matters to be turned over to the intelligence committees, so don't anybody give me that "they're asking Barr to break the law!" ****, because that doesn't apply here at all.

Enough is enough. Barr has politicized the DOJ, mislead Congress, purposely slow walked the SCO report, and has refused to turn over documents that the DOJ has previously given Republicans.

Just impeach him.
Yeah tell me how that works out for you :lamo
 
Then kindly don't quote me and start with "You...on the left..." Thanks.

And although I don't want to see impeachment, Pelosi and the House Judiciary Committee might not have a choice. Trump is flaunting his corrupt and illegal behavior; the Democratic base (i.e. voters) may insist, because doing nothing makes the party look weak and impotent, not to mention sets an abysmal precedent for future presidential behavior.

Which I have said before in this very thread; apparently you missed it.


Not everybody on the left is a democrat, but everybody on the left is delusional if they believe Pelosi will start impeachment proceedings.
 
What are you talking about?

The contents of the bill, and the fact that they gave up. Too busy with political investigations.

I'm reading conservative estimates (not politically conservative) that this nation is in need of more than $30 trillion of rebuilding money over the next ten years, and another $20 tril for new infrastructure construction over the same period of time or the costs will treble during the following decade. $2 trillion won't cover much more than soft costs. That covers everything from rebuilding highways, train tunnels and tracks, harbor dredging and clean water initiatives, levees, international and domestic airports, bridges and commuter tunnels, river recovery, reforesting, mine cleanups, toxic cleanups, fish husbandry, coral repair, beach reconstruction, new energy sources and repair and upgrading of the national power grid, Federal park reconstruction, and so on, and on, and on and...........

The jobs that would be created alone are worth the investment, but we don't have enough workers, skilled workers and the birthrate is dropping despite Alabama. How many can operate a bull dozer, a road grader, do stake surveys, spin cable on bridges, operate core drilling equipment for tunnels, ah, the tasks are endless. The workers insufficient and in need of training. How much do you really think $2 trillion will accomplish?

There's always money for floods, but not quality levees. What will we do about the water shortage already appearing in the west? Shall we see more barriers on the California borders for Okies? Those responsible for governing must start developing long term solutions and leave the quibbling for online critics with too much time on their hands. Hmm, more forest fires because we've removed the predators from our lands and the deer destroy the water retaining shrubbery and grasses as they feed, and ranchers worry about a few sheep and cattle which will die from thirst. Encourage a few more wolves, buffalo herds, the fauna that makes our lands stronger. Restrict housing and commercial development where it is a threat to our lives. Governers need to govern. That is why the people elected them. Not because of how much they spend to get elected, but for doing for the nation. We don't need income redistribution when jobs go begging, we need the right education of skills for those jobs. And if need be, let's bring in the immigrants willing and able to work for our prosperity and fiscal health. There is always work for masons, plumbers, carpenters, with skills. It takes quality governance to see the light.

Don't talk to me about forlorn, forgotten baby steps that stopped at a wall.
 
The TVA, the WPA projects, the endangered Hudson rail tunnels which carry 47% of the annual GDP and the George Washington Bridge, US Highway One and the rest of Ike's Highway system, Amtrak, out entire commercial rail system, The Federal Reserve Water System, the entire Federal parklands system, every navigable river under Federal jurisdiction, I could easily go on with an endless list, but you get the idea by now.


Federal highways are under the purview of the Federal Government, federal lands, all federally built and maintained infrastructure. I don't know where this Glitch guy gets his info from but he needs to demand a refund.
Sounds like Prager University.
Based on the post you were responding to, it appears Glitch wants to abolish Congress.

All Congress has ever done since their inception is play political games.

I utterly despise Trump, but would gladly see him President-for-Life rather than see Hillary serve even a partial term as President.

Starting to sound like somebody is bordering on unhinged. Now the entire democratic process, and the Democratic Party itself is invalid and worthy of attack.
He says he despises Trump but bowing to an authoritarian strongman seems to make him moist.
Wow. :eek:
 
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