• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump pardons fraudster Conrad Black after glowing biography

uptower

uptower

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
20,010
Reaction score
17,077
Location
Behind you - run!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
WillyPete said:
It IS impeachable. As a political process, the only thing that matters is whether you have the votes to successfully remove him from office.

With the needed votes, we could impeach because we don't like his stupid face. But we don't.

So what now?
Click to expand...

Deal with it in 2020 because there are no circumstances in which the GOP would impeach Trump.
 
uptower said:
This is a disgusting example of corruption and abuse of power. Should be impeachable.
Click to expand...

WillyPete said:
It IS impeachable. As a political process, the only thing that matters is whether you have the votes to successfully remove him from office.
Click to expand...

The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.

Don't like it? Amend the Constitution. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:
Deuce said:
Deal with it in 2020 because there are no circumstances in which the GOP would impeach Trump.
Click to expand...

He wouldnt get removed but there are other advantages of starting impeachment hearings. I say go right ahead, wouldnt have had nixon resign if congress didnt try.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.
Click to expand...

Great, and now I can criticize him for using it on corrupt people like Black and Sholom Rubashkin.
 
uptower said:
This is a disgusting example of corruption and abuse of power. Should be impeachable.




Trump pardons fraudster Conrad Black after glowing biography | Business | The Guardian
Click to expand...

Pffft.

A past President pardoned Marc Rich, a man indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage).

Today, that President is held in the highest esteem by all who supported him.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.

Don't like it? Amend the Constitution. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

An impeachable offense is whatever Congress says it is.
 
bomberfox said:
He wouldnt get removed but there are other advantages of starting impeachment hearings. I say go right ahead, wouldnt have had nixon resign if congress didnt try.
Click to expand...

The GOP today is not what it was under Nixon. The founding fathers ****ed up. They failed to anticipate an entire political party turning into a criminal organization.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PEWIOD...

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.
Click to expand...

He can abuse that power and is doing so. He is not the only one granted, but many of his pardons are blatantly political. He is not acting in good faith. add it to the list of offences.

The only thing protecting this crook is a spineless Senate.
 
Perfectly legal but sort of fitting: a fraudster pardons a fraudster.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.

Don't like it? Amend the Constitution. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Got some questions pls

If, and I say IF a President pardoned a person for personal financial gain, what would your opinion be?

Pardon is legal?

Pardon is illegal?
 
JANFU said:
Got some questions pls

If, and I say IF a President pardoned a person for personal financial gain, what would your opinion be?

Pardon is legal?

Pardon is illegal?
Click to expand...

As far as I know it's always legal. That doesn't make it laudable.
 
uptower said:
He can abuse that power and is doing so. He is not the only one granted, but many of his pardons are blatantly political. He is not acting in good faith. add it to the list of offences.

The only thing protecting this crook is a spineless Senate.
Click to expand...

Please indicate the specific Constitutional grounds upon which you base such limitations? Where does it say there are such limits to this power, i.e. only people who everyone thinks deserving qualify for a pardon?

There are none such. Now you can express your personal opinion on the subject, and if YOU ever become President can then employ your own limitations. Meanwhile, there are no such limitations.

The President can literally pardon anyone for any or no reason at all. About the only Constitutional limit would be if one were actually selling pardon's to the highest bidder, there could be a case made under the Emoluments Clause.

There is also the criminal act of accepting a bribe.

In such a case Congress could rightly impeach IMHO.

JANFU said:
Got some questions pls

If, and I say IF a President pardoned a person for personal financial gain, what would your opinion be?

Pardon is legal?

Pardon is illegal?
Click to expand...

JasperL said:
...If we found out he was selling pardons, for example, or throwing in a pardon as needed if the person bought an overpriced condo in a Trump property - sort of like banks used to hand out toaster ovens - seems clearly impeachable even though he has the power to sell/trade them.

Because impeachment is a power granted to Congress in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the Congress sees fit, and if selling pardons or trading them or handing them out for any corrupt purpose isn't a high....misdemeanor I can't imagine what would be.
Click to expand...

See above.
 
Last edited:
phattonez said:
As far as I know it's always legal. That doesn't make it laudable.
Click to expand...

That would make a president above the law.
It would end up with SCOTUS
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.

Don't like it? Amend the Constitution. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Doesn't it make you gag just a little?
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President has absolute pardon power over federal offenses, PERIOD!

It is NOT an "impeachable offense," it NOT an "abuse of power."

It is power granted to the officeholder in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the President sees fit.
Click to expand...

IMO, the pardon reveals Trump for the sad, pathetic narcissist we've all known he is, but the act isn't impeachable. However, just because he CAN do something doesn't mean it's not an abuse of power or impeachable. If we found out he was selling pardons, for example, or throwing in a pardon as needed if the person bought an overpriced condo in a Trump property - sort of like banks used to hand out toaster ovens - seems clearly impeachable even though he has the power to sell/trade them.

Because impeachment is a power granted to Congress in the U.S. Constitution to dispense as and when the Congress sees fit, and if selling pardons or trading them or handing them out for any corrupt purpose isn't a high....misdemeanor I can't imagine what would be.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Please indicate the specific Constitutional grounds upon which you base such limitations? Where does it say there are such limits to this power, i.e. only people who everyone thinks deserving qualify for a pardon?

There are none such. Now you can express your personal opinion on the subject, and if YOU ever become President can then employ your own limitations. Meanwhile, there are no such limitations.

The President can literally pardon anyone for any or no reason at all. About the only Constitutional limit would be if one were actually selling pardon's to the highest bidder, in which case there could be a case made under the Emoluments Clause.

In such a case Congress could rightly impeach IMHO.



See above.
Click to expand...

You mean like selling a pardon for a glowing biography? You guys will accept any corruption from Trump.
 
Deuce said:
An impeachable offense is whatever Congress says it is.
Click to expand...

Sooooo, you are hereby arguing in favor of/for a different branch of our government's "abuse of power?" :roll:

The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Click to expand...
Article II, Section 4.


High crimes = Felonies; Misdemeanors is self-explanatory. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:
The whole Presidential "pardon" power has become a joke...That needs to be removed
 
Captain Adverse said:
The President can literally pardon anyone for any or no reason at all. About the only Constitutional limit would be if one were actually selling pardon's to the highest bidder, there could be a case made under the Emoluments Clause.

In such a case Congress could rightly impeach IMHO.
Click to expand...

They could argue that giving free publicity is payment in kind. It's congress. Congress gets to decide high crimes and misdemeanours, something that by definition only a president can commit in the wrongful execution of his duties. They could (had they the balls) hold that pardoning crooks who praised him in a book is just such an abuse of the powers bestowed on a president.

For those powers are not limitless, are subject to oversight and in light of his other offences part of a pattern of corruption.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Please indicate the specific Constitutional grounds upon which you base such limitations? Where does it say there are such limits to this power, i.e. only people who everyone thinks deserving qualify for a pardon?

There are none such. Now you can express your personal opinion on the subject, and if YOU ever become President can then employ your own limitations. Meanwhile, there are no such limitations.

The President can literally pardon anyone for any or no reason at all. About the only Constitutional limit would be if one were actually selling pardon's to the highest bidder, there could be a case made under the Emoluments Clause.
Click to expand...

Doubtful: ...And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

In such a case Congress could rightly impeach IMHO.
Click to expand...

Of course, because Congress can impeach for obvious abuses of power/acts of naked corruption like selling pardons, and technically legal or not would have little to do with it.
 
Deuce said:
The GOP today is not what it was under Nixon. The founding fathers ****ed up. They failed to anticipate an entire political party turning into a criminal organization.
Click to expand...

Actually, when our forefathers wrote the Constitution, political parties did not exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom