• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Guatemalan toddler dies in US custody

dcsports said:
it's only a black eye from the standpoint of those who try to politicize it.
Click to expand...

Exactly, thank you! Trump is the one who has been politicizing this since he announced his campaign and the first thing out of his mouth were attacks on brown skinned people.

Hell, even before that, he gained his street cred with his base by making racist attacks on a sitting POTUS, saying he was UnAmerican for no other reason than he had black skin.

Again - The woman and child were taken into custody literally on the north bank of the Rio Grande. The child was extremely sick and in respiratory distress. He was taken by ambulance to a hospital, and then to a specialty (children's) hospital the next day. He received care for his illness, but unfortunately died. AND, he wasn't even in custody at that point -- mother and child were released when he was admitted to the hospital.

So how does the treatment of the child possibly give the US a 'black eye'? If anything, I would think it gives Mexico a black eye, for allowing a woman to travel through the entire length of the country with a child who was deathly ill without receiving care.
Click to expand...

The world sees a moronic clownish POTUS who launches into racist attacks whenever he needs to excite his base. The world sees his racism exemplified in the treatment of the immigrants at your Southern border. Babies separated from their mothers, maybe to never reunite. A policy of putting children in cages. And now children dying in the care of those policies.

Maybe you can't see the forest for the trees, or maybe you just don't care, or maybe you support Trump's behavior, I don't know. But the rest of the world can see and does care.
 
Last edited:
HumblePi said:
Solution #1. Do not NOT separate a 2 year old baby from his mother

Solution #2. ALL migrants, both adults and children should be given at least a cursory medical exam immediately after being detained. Someone with as little qualifications as a nurse's aide is capable of doing this. Both baby and mother should have been given a medical evaluation immediately following their capture and incarceration.

Solution #3. Flood the courts with more Federal judges to hear these cases and expedite them. Get them IN or get them OUT rapidly.

Solution #4 - do not separate babies from their mothers
Solution #5 - do not separate babies from their mothers
Solution #6 - do not separate babies from their mothers

I think it's pretty clear that I adamantly believe that young babies and young children should never be separated from parents.
Click to expand...

What should have been done differently in THIS case? The mother and baby weren't separated. The child wasn't given a cursory medical exam... he was taken to the hospital by ambulance immediately after being detained, and both were subsequently released.

I agree fully on point 3 - we should flood the courts with more judges (and staff) and expedite the process. There's no reason they should take so long to process. In most cases, it should be a simple screening and, barring a specific credible threat, a plane trip back to their home country with a packet of information detailing the steps to legally immigrate.
 
SLC said:
Yep two died from speaks and one died of a “brain infection” and this one from pneumonia or complications from pneumonia. None of these seem like the fault of BP and exposure seems a likely fault
Click to expand...

Whether the anti-Trumps want to admit it or not, everything possible was done medically to help these sick children.
Notice how we NEVER hear about the sick children border patrol helped to become healthy again?
 
JustHanging said:
Exactly, thank you! Trump is the one who has been politicizing this since he announced his campaign and the first thing out of his mouth were attacks on brown skinned people.

Hell, even before that, he gained his street cred with his base by making racist attacks on a sitting POTUS, saying he was UnAmerican for no other reason than he had black skin.



The world sees a moronic clownish POTUS who launches into racist attacks whenever he needs to excite his base. The world sees his racism exemplified in the treatment of the immigrants at your Southern border. Babies separated from their mothers, maybe to never reunite. A policy of putting children in cages. And now children dying in the care of those policies.

Maybe you can't see the forest for the trees, or maybe you just don't care. But the rest of the world can see and does care.
Click to expand...

whoops! You spun off topic there. The issue is the people politicizing this child's death. The president attempting to enforce immigration policy is a separate issue.

And again -- how does any of that relate to THIS case? The children are dying because they came into custody sick - not because they are in custody. This specific child was barely detained before being rushed to the hospital. If you want to talk about the care given to people by Border Patrol, the emphasis should probably be on how many sick kids came into their custody that received care once they got here and lived.
 
JustHanging said:
It was inevitable that an immigrant child was going to die in US Custody, it's just math.

But that doesn't change the fact that this will be seen around the world as yet another black eye for the USA, further damaging America's reputation world wide. Internationally Trump has America looking like a boxer whose manager didn't know when to throw in the towel.
Click to expand...

He's number five.
 
HumblePi said:
At the very least, the US is seen as a world power that has no logical plan on how to deal with immigration. We're seen as a world power that can only be reactive instead of being proactive. We separate kids, lose those kids, incarcerate immigrants and throw them back after many months. We aren't addressing the question of 'why'. Why are they coming? Why are conditions so bad in Central America? Why are more economic sanctions only going to exacerbate the migration? In what ways can the US insert more pressure on their governments to suppress corruption and criminal mafia crimes like extortion and murder? The US is always dealing with this crisis on the wrong end of the crisis, the end result instead of the driving forces for this exodus from Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well over a century of raping the land and the people, and now everyone is surprised that there's nothing left, and the people are looking for a decent place.

The USA brought this on themselves, so to treat these people like this, after taking advantage of them and their ancestors for over a century, is really obscene.

I notice that the only religious group that overwhelmingly supports Trump, that supports this kind of obscene behavior, is Evangelical and Fundamental Christians. And they have audacity to complain about Muslims. SMH.
 
HumblePi said:
[h=1]Guatemalan toddler dies in US custody, report says[/h]Guatemalan toddler dies in US custody, report says - CNN

A 2 1/2-year-old Guatemalan boy apprehended on the US-Mexico border died Tuesday night in El Paso, Texas, the Washington Post reported.The child had been in the hospital in US custody for several weeks after crossing into the US with his mother, the Post reported, citing Guatemala Consul Tekandi Paniagua and another source.

CNN has reached out to the Department of Homeland Security and the Guatemalan consulate in Del Rio, Texas, but hasn't yet received a response.

The boy would be the fourth Guatemalan child since December to die after a border apprehension.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAICES Texas, nonprofit immigration legal services group, tweeted.

"A 2 year old baby boy ‘apprehended' by armed security forces. He's now dead. No baby should be ‘apprehended’. Immigrants should NEVER be kept in detention centers. This continues until we start treating people fleeing asylum in a humane way."

Now I'll count down the minutes before the comments saying "it's his mother's fault, she put him at risk" or "If the mother didn't try to get in our country illegally her kid would still be alive".

Go on.... let it all out, justify this death.
Click to expand...

You're kidding, right?

The mother sent him here without her, he got sick on the way, we tried to save him from dying in our hospitals, but he died.

How is this America's fault?
 
JustHanging said:
Yeah, well over a century of raping the land and the people, and now everyone is surprised that there's nothing left, and the people are looking for a decent place.

The USA brought this on themselves, so to treat these people like this, after taking advantage of them and their ancestors for over a century, is really obscene.

I notice that the only religious group that overwhelmingly supports Trump, that supports this kind of obscene behavior, is Evangelical and Fundamental Christians. And they have audacity to complain about Muslims. SMH.
Click to expand...

We've done no such thing. Remember when the rain forests were going away? They're still there. And Central America's problem is within their culture and corruption, just like Africa and other third-world regions.

We tried to save this kid after he almost died in Mexico because of his mother's unforgivable actions.
 
dcsports said:
whoops! You spun off topic there.
Click to expand...

Nope.

The issue is the people politicizing this child's death.
Click to expand...

And death of the child occurred in a system brought about by the politicizing of the brown skinned people at the Southern border.

If we're talking about politicizing the death, it's ridiculous to try and separate the two imo.

The president attempting to enforce immigration policy is a separate issue.
Click to expand...

Trump's primary campaign strategy to energize his base is to make racist attacks. Football players, Mexicans, Latinos, immigrants, Puerto Ricans, African countries, Muslims. The list goes on and on.

Trump’s Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

This is obviously just an extension of Trump's campaign strategy to excite and energize his base. To deny that is disingenuous at best.



As I said in my original post, this is yet another black eye for the USA, another in a long long series of black eyes Trump has given America internationally.
 
JustHanging said:
Nope.



And death of the child occurred in a system brought about by the politicizing of the brown skinned people at the Southern border.

If we're talking about politicizing the death, it's ridiculous to try and separate the two imo.



Trump's primary campaign strategy to energize his base is to make racist attacks. Football players, Mexicans, Latinos, immigrants, Puerto Ricans, African countries, Muslims. The list goes on and on.

Trump’s Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

This is obviously just an extension of Trump's campaign strategy to excite and energize his base. To deny that is disingenuous at best.
Click to expand...

Wow.

LOL, that is colossally idiotic.
 
HumblePi said:
[h=1]Guatemalan toddler dies in US custody, report says[/h]Guatemalan toddler dies in US custody, report says - CNN

A 2 1/2-year-old Guatemalan boy apprehended on the US-Mexico border died Tuesday night in El Paso, Texas, the Washington Post reported.The child had been in the hospital in US custody for several weeks after crossing into the US with his mother, the Post reported, citing Guatemala Consul Tekandi Paniagua and another source.

CNN has reached out to the Department of Homeland Security and the Guatemalan consulate in Del Rio, Texas, but hasn't yet received a response.

The boy would be the fourth Guatemalan child since December to die after a border apprehension.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAICES Texas, nonprofit immigration legal services group, tweeted.

"A 2 year old baby boy ‘apprehended' by armed security forces. He's now dead. No baby should be ‘apprehended’. Immigrants should NEVER be kept in detention centers. This continues until we start treating people fleeing asylum in a humane way."

Now I'll count down the minutes before the comments saying "it's his mother's fault, she put him at risk" or "If the mother didn't try to get in our country illegally her kid would still be alive".

Go on.... let it all out, justify this death.
Click to expand...

Here’s a hypothetical situation to ponder, Lets say a Mom and Dad, both US citizens decided to undertake an arduous journey on foot across the mostly desert southwest with there two year old son. Once reaching their designation the child dies of complications due to exposer and neglect. What do you think will happen to these parents under US law? Well, I can tell you, they would be charged with child endangerment and if there’s any other children they would go into the care of CPS immediately.
 
JustHanging said:
Nope.



And death of the child occurred in a system brought about by the politicizing of the brown skinned people at the Southern border.

If we're talking about politicizing the death, it's ridiculous to try and separate the two imo.



Trump's primary campaign strategy to energize his base is to make racist attacks. Football players, Mexicans, Latinos, immigrants, Puerto Ricans, African countries, Muslims. The list goes on and on.

Trump’s Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

This is obviously just an extension of Trump's campaign strategy to excite and energize his base. To deny that is disingenuous at best.



As I said in my original post, this is yet another black eye for the USA, another in a long long series of black eyes Trump has given America internationally.
Click to expand...

WAY WAY off the target there. Sorry. The immigration crisis predates Trump, sorry.

And again, on this case, if the child had not been apprehended and rushed to a hospital, what would have happened to him?
 
Erod said:
We've done no such thing.
Click to expand...

Dang, your public education system really is one large fail eh?

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America

Both the coup and the following authoritarian regime was eagerly endorsed and supported by the United States government[1] with US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger paying several official visits to Argentina during the dictatorship.[2][3] Among the many human rights violations committed during the period were extrajudicial arrest, mass executions, torture, rape, disappearances of political prisoners and dissenters,[4] and illegal relocations of children born from pregnant women (both pregnant before their imprisonment or made pregnant by the continuous rape).[2][4]


Maybe I'm being too harsh on your public education system. Are you homeschooled?
 
Yep you have no shame
Obscurity said:
Oh spare me the baloney. The right politicizes death constantly. Celebrates it and calls for it in some cases. No one cares about your flimsy attempts here.
Click to expand...
 
dcsports said:
WAY WAY off the target there. Sorry. The immigration crisis predates Trump, sorry.
Click to expand...
Deflection.

We're not talking about immigration before Trump. We're talking about the immigration policies Trump has installed. And how they are typical of the racist statements and policies he uses to try and energize his base.

That includes Trump's politicization of the immigration system.

And again, on this case, if the child had not been apprehended and rushed to a hospital, what would have happened to him?
Click to expand...

Good question. What would have happened if the family had been treated decently from the start, they weren't separated, and received proper medical care from the start?
 
Last edited:
JustHanging said:
Dang, your public education system really is one large fail eh?

United States involvement in regime change in Latin America

Both the coup and the following authoritarian regime was eagerly endorsed and supported by the United States government[1] with US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger paying several official visits to Argentina during the dictatorship.[2][3] Among the many human rights violations committed during the period were extrajudicial arrest, mass executions, torture, rape, disappearances of political prisoners and dissenters,[4] and illegal relocations of children born from pregnant women (both pregnant before their imprisonment or made pregnant by the continuous rape).[2][4]


Maybe I'm being too harsh on your public education system. Are you homeschooled?
Click to expand...

MBA.

And if you believe what you read on wikipedia, then perhaps you need to re-enroll. And I don't mean at Evergreen College.
 
JustHanging said:
Deflection.

We're not talking about immigration before Trump. We're talking about the immigration policies Trump has installed. And how they are typical of the racist statements and policies he uses to try and energize his base.



Good question. What would have happened if the family had been treated decently from the start, they weren't separated, and received proper medical care from the start?
Click to expand...

He's deflecting?

LOL, you just blamed a child's death on 30 years of, I guess, the mistreatment of Guatemala for the past century.

Then why aren't they all dead?

Geez, you're special.
 
JustHanging said:
It was inevitable that an immigrant child was going to die in US Custody, it's just math.

But that doesn't change the fact that this will be seen around the world as yet another black eye for the USA, further damaging America's reputation world wide. Internationally Trump has America looking like a boxer whose manager didn't know when to throw in the towel.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on if the facts of the incident are presented, or just an emotional, fact-free narrative, such as the OP provided. It’s horrible this child died, but considering he was in a US hospital for weeks after being admitted almost immediately upon entry into the country, no rational person could legitimately make the claim that it was the fault of the US.
 
trixare4kids said:
Why should we care about this OPEN border group and how they have politicized the death of a child for their own agenda?
Resources – RAICES How do you justify politicizing his death for your own anti-Trump agenda?

You probably think we should charge the president with this toddler boy's death?

RIP, little boy.
Click to expand...

No, what Trump can be charged with is ignoring US and treaty law, precedent, and international standard practices in dealing with migrations like the one in question, lying about refugees, and traumatizing kids jailed and separate from parents. And of course Donald "There are Middle Easterners in the Caravan" Trump would never politicize things.
 
Fledermaus said:
Claim of hypocrisy yet cannot explain the claimed hypocrisy....

FAIL.
Click to expand...

Already did. Republicans claim to be the party of life and kids die in their custody on their watch.

Hypocrisy 101.
 
Fledermaus said:
Post #46 nails it.

Political points from the death of a child is pathetic no matter who does it.

Thank you for demonstrating you are no better than any on "the right".
Click to expand...

Oh, but I am. I am leagues above anyone on the right. Unlike them, I have no fear of the "other" and don't have to justify my positions like you lot do.

Moreover, spare me the high horse routine. You lot use every tragedy to score political points and then screech to the high heavens when it's used against you.

Newsflash; none of us give a damn about the useless bleatings of the right wingers on this forum or anywhere else.
 
SLC said:
Yep you have no shame
Click to expand...

Oh please. You lot get so triggered when your own tactics are used against you. Get used to it, I don't care for anything but to see the party of anti-rights and anti-cannabis and anti-life lose every election from here on out.
 
JustHanging said:
Deflection.

We're not talking about immigration before Trump. We're talking about the immigration policies Trump has installed. And how they are typical of the racist statements and policies he uses to try and energize his base.

That includes Trump's politicization of the immigration system.
Click to expand...

That's a wild (and incorrect) statement. And you are deflecting. Again, if you want to talk about Trump's immigration policies in general, you should do so under an appropriate thread.


JustHanging said:
Good question. What would have happened if the family had been treated decently from the start, they weren't separated, and received proper medical care from the start?
Click to expand...

You missed the point (again). Note that you keep inserting something that isn't there (separation). They WERE treated decently (at least, there's no indication otherwise), and the child DID receive proper medical care from the start (the child was taken to the hospital by ambulance). And note (again) that mother and child were released upon admission to the hospital. What more should the border patrol have done?

I'll help you though -- So if they would not have been stopped by border patrol, the child (1) would never have received medical care at all, or (2) would have been taken to the hospital at a later point when the child's condition became more serious. What do you think the outcome would have been at that point?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom