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NYT: Trump’s Trade War Escalation Will Exact Economic Pain, Adviser Says

Conservative said:
Trade deficits reduce GDP and revenue and benefits to the American people and American businesses. You don't know the components of GDP, do you? Just like you don't know about the problems in your own state
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Do you believe that arbitrarily raising taxes will increase, or decrease, the GDP?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Do you believe that arbitrarily raising taxes will increase, or decrease, the GDP?
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Tariffs don't raise taxes as the U.S. Economy is so strong that this country is holding the cards but any tax increases like the 7 tax increases during the Trump term reduces cash available for consumers to spend thus will affect the number one component of GDP, consumer spending. You truly must live in a bubble where tax increases don't affect you at all in spite of the mess in your own state with the highest taxes in the nation
 
Conservative said:
Tariffs don't raise taxes as the U.S. Economy is so strong that this country is holding the cards but any tax increases like the 7 tax increases during the Trump term reduces cash available for consumers to spend thus will affect the number one component of GDP, consumer spending. You truly must live in a bubble where tax increases don't affect you at all in spite of the mess in your own state with the highest taxes in the nation
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News flash:

Tariffs are taxes.
 
Dittohead not! said:
News flash:

Tariffs are taxes.
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On specific items unlike rate hikes from the Fed. You seem to be very poorly informed about the U.S. economy, how big it is, and even what items are affected if at all!
 
Conservative said:
On specific items unlike rate hikes from the Fed. You seem to be very poorly informed about the U.S. economy, how big it is, and even what items are affected if at all!
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Ah.

So taxing specific items is no big deal- it’s not really a tax.

Good to know you’ll fully support a carbon tax in the future.
 
Threegoofs said:
Ah.

So taxing specific items is no big deal- it’s not really a tax.

Good to know you’ll fully support a carbon tax in the future.
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Another clueless liberal comment comparing Mexico products that don't affect all Americans to a carbon tax that affects most. Your post are another example of liberal logic and ignorance

So sorry that the private sector and America First bothers you so much. Accept responsibility for you own poor choices and mistakes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Conservative said:
Another clueless liberal comment comparing Mexico products that don't affect all Americans to a carbon tax that affects most. Your post are another example of liberal logic and ignorance

So sorry that the private sector and America First bothers you so much. Accept responsibility for you own poor choices and mistakes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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How clownish.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
International trade also matters overall and not simply between any two given nations.
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Good point.


  1. IF "Country A" is running a trade deficit of $1,000,000,000 with "Country B";
  2. AND IF "Country B" is running a trade deficit of $1,000,000,000 with "Country C";
  3. AND IF "Country C" is running a trade deficit of $1,000,000,000 with "Country A";
  4. THEN "What is the actual trade deficit of;
    • "Country A",
    • "Country B", and
    • "Country C"?


THIS CHART (use the "max" setting) [sorry, image wouldn't upload] should be highly enlightening in that it shows when the US began running trade deficits. That would have been around 1975 and America has been running trade deficits ever since then. Not overly surprising "around 1975" is when Robert J Gordon's "The Rise and Fall of American Growth: The U.S. Standard of Living since the Civil War" [Princeton University Press (Jan. 12 2016) -ISBN-10: 0691147728 /ISBN-13: 978-0691147727] documents that the rising competitiveness of those economies which had been rebuilt after being devastated by WWII really started coming on line.

Although it's too much to conclude that the US economy COULD never really compete if there was a level playing field, it probably isn't too much to conclude that the US economy never really HAD TO compete where there was a level playing field.
 
Crystal said:
What services?
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Financial and administrative.

Crystal said:
You think a 270% tariff on US dairy is a friendly neighborly thing do you?
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Well, considering that Wisconsin alone produces enough milk to supply 100% of the Canadian raw milk market, you might think that the Canadian government has about as much right to protect the Canadian dairy farmers from being wiped out due to the flooding of the Canadian milk market by subsidized American milk (that contains chemicals which are not allowed to be contained in milk sold in Canada) as the US government has to protect the American softwood farmers/loggers from being wiped out due to the flooding of the American softwood lumber market by unsubsidized, but cheaper to produce, Canadian softwood lumber which has superior mechanical characteristics to American softwood lumber.

PS - Don't forget that Mr. Trump's absolutely fantastic negotiating skills got the Canadian government to knuckle under and increase the share of the Canadian raw milk market that the US dairy farmers could access before the tariffs kicked in from 3.25% to a huge 3.6% rather than the 3.5% that the Canadian government had already agreed to.

PPS - You might be interested to know that the US tariffs on imported dairy products are even higher than the Canadian ones, to the extent that it isn't economically feasible to export very much dairy product (except for some forms of cheese) to the US.

PPPS - Did you know that the Canadian tariff on US milk (in excess of the quota amount) is around CDN$36.53 per hectolitre (that works out to about US$27.40) while the US tariff on Canadian milk (in excess of the quota amount) is around US$34.00 per hectolitre (that works out to about US$34.00). The last time that I checked, US$34.00 was MORE than US$27.40. Has that changed? Who's not being "neighbourly"?
 
Outlook said:
That should be Canada’s decision. Canada should look after Canada. If canada feels the US is screwing them, they should take action.
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Strangely enough that is exactly what is happening.

Of course the Canadian solution is rather different than the American solution because the Canadian solution is to look for other markets and suppliers rather than to continue dealing with the same ones that have proven to be "sort of unreliable" rather than insisting that "The Rules" be changed so that Canada ALWAYS emerges on the profit side of ANY trading exchanges.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Strangely enough that is exactly what is happening.

Of course the Canadian solution is rather different than the American solution because the Canadian solution is to look for other markets and suppliers rather than to continue dealing with the same ones that have proven to be "sort of unreliable" rather than insisting that "The Rules" be changed so that Canada ALWAYS emerges on the profit side of ANY trading exchanges.
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Whatever works for Canada.
 
MTAtech said:
New York Times: Trump’s Trade War Escalation Will Exact Economic Pain, Adviser Says
Relevant snippets:

My comment: So, even Larry Kudlow now admits the trade war will hurt Americans. “In fact, both sides will pay,” Mr. Kudlow said on “Fox News Sunday.” “Both sides will suffer on this.”

My comment: Whenever investors suspect that Donald Trump will really go through with his threats of big tariff increases, provoking retaliation abroad, stocks plunge. Every time they decide it’s just theater, stocks recover. Markets really, really don’t like the idea of a trade war.
My Comment: Trump fundamentally doesn't know how tariffs work. Consumers pay the tariffs, not the country of origin.
My Comment: The wealthy and corporations got tax-cuts and the American consumer gets higher prices due to tariffs. Moreover, any growth aspect of the tax-cuts has worn off -- just in time for the contraction effects of the tariffs to kick in.

General comment:
In some ways, China really is a bad actor in the global economy. In particular, it has pretty much thumbed its nose at international rules on intellectual property rights, grabbing foreign technology without proper payment. And to be fair, Trump officials do sometimes raise the intellectual property issue as a justification for getting tough.

But if getting China to pay what it owes for technology were the goal, you’d expect the U.S. both to make specific demands on that front and to adopt a strategy aimed at inducing China to meet those demands.

In fact, the U.S. has given little indication of what China should do about intellectual property. Meanwhile, if getting better protection of patent rights and so on were the goal, America should be trying to build a coalition with other advanced countries to pressure the Chinese; instead, we’ve been alienating everyone in sight. Not for nothing, this issue was addressed in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) that Trump cancelled on day one.
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forget paying for it. It's a matter of national security. China is not a free country and not really our ally. We don't want China to have the technology, period.

if that means we have to break away from them entirely,it will be tough, but it might be necessary
 
Hypothetical said:
forget paying for it. It's a matter of national security. China is not a free country and not really our ally. We don't want China to have the technology, period.

if that means we have to break away from them entirely,it will be tough, but it might be necessary
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If you are trying to restrict China from having technology, that ship has long ago sailed and also has nothing to do with tariffs, which are taxes on our own people. Thus, collecting more tariff taxes from Americans doesn't restrict China from getting technology.
 
Conservative said:
Another clueless liberal comment comparing Mexico products that don't affect all Americans to a carbon tax that affects most. Your post are another example of liberal logic and ignorance

So sorry that the private sector and America First bothers you so much. Accept responsibility for you own poor choices and mistakes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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An increase in income taxes doesn't affect all Americans.

The increase in cost of anything from Mexico affects a lot more of us.
And the increase in cost in Mexico of US goods will effect anyone producing any product that is exported there.
 
Dittohead not! said:
An increase in income taxes doesn't affect all Americans.

The increase in cost of anything from Mexico affects a lot more of us.
And the increase in cost in Mexico of US goods will effect anyone producing any product that is exported there.
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You are a complete waste of time
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Financial and administrative.



Well, considering that Wisconsin alone produces enough milk to supply 100% of the Canadian raw milk market, you might think that the Canadian government has about as much right to protect the Canadian dairy farmers from being wiped out due to the flooding of the Canadian milk market by subsidized American milk (that contains chemicals which are not allowed to be contained in milk sold in Canada) as the US government has to protect the American softwood farmers/loggers from being wiped out due to the flooding of the American softwood lumber market by unsubsidized, but cheaper to produce, Canadian softwood lumber which has superior mechanical characteristics to American softwood lumber.

PS - Don't forget that Mr. Trump's absolutely fantastic negotiating skills got the Canadian government to knuckle under and increase the share of the Canadian raw milk market that the US dairy farmers could access before the tariffs kicked in from 3.25% to a huge 3.6% rather than the 3.5% that the Canadian government had already agreed to.

PPS - You might be interested to know that the US tariffs on imported dairy products are even higher than the Canadian ones, to the extent that it isn't economically feasible to export very much dairy product (except for some forms of cheese) to the US.

PPPS - Did you know that the Canadian tariff on US milk (in excess of the quota amount) is around CDN$36.53 per hectolitre (that works out to about US$27.40) while the US tariff on Canadian milk (in excess of the quota amount) is around US$34.00 per hectolitre (that works out to about US$34.00). The last time that I checked, US$34.00 was MORE than US$27.40. Has that changed? Who's not being "neighbourly"?
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Oh, no, only liberals think that $34 is more than $27. Conservatives know better.
 
Hypothetical said:
forget paying for it. It's a matter of national security. China is not a free country and not really our ally. We don't want China to have the technology, period.

if that means we have to break away from them entirely,it will be tough, but it might be necessary
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And if the EU, the CPTPP, and RF decide to step into the gap, what then?

Well, the obvious solution is to break away from the EU, the CPTPP, and the RF entirely - isn't it?
 
MTAtech said:
If you are trying to restrict China from having technology, that ship has long ago sailed and also has nothing to do with tariffs, which are taxes on our own people. Thus, collecting more tariff taxes from Americans doesn't restrict China from getting technology.
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But it will stop the Chinese from getting **A*M*E*R*I*C*A*N** technology. I mean, if it wasn't for American technology the world wouldn't have gunpowder, or radio, or TV, or jet aircraft, or rockets, or tanks, or submarines, or X-Rays, or steam engines, or internal combustion engines, or automobiles, or transistors, or insulin, or penicillin, or ... and would still be living in the dark ages of absolute monarchies and feudalism (because the Americans invented voting and democracy) - right?
 
Dittohead not! said:
An increase in income taxes doesn't affect all Americans.
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Especially it doesn't affect those whose incomes are high enough that they can afford to hire good tax accountants and lawyers.

Dittohead not! said:
The increase in cost of anything from Mexico affects a lot more of us.
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Not if you stop buying stuff from Mexico. I mean, American avocados and American coffee are at least as good as Mexican avocados and Mexican coffee - aren't they? Besides, who needs a bunch of imported tacos, burritos, and tamales?

Dittohead not! said:
And the increase in cost in Mexico of US goods will effect anyone producing any product that is exported there.
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Mr. Trump is NOT putting on an EXPORT tax, so there is absolutely no reason to expect that the production cost of anything exported from the US to Mexico will increase. Right?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Oh, no, only liberals think that $34 is more than $27. Conservatives know better.
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Actually I don't think that most "conservatives" (whatever that means) have the faintest glimmer of the ghost of a hint of the shadow of a suspicion that the US has import tariffs on imported milk products. That means that they are easy to convince that ANY other country's import tariffs are MUCH HIGHER than the American ones (since they don't know that there are any American ones [so that means that the American ones MUST be equal to zero]).
 
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