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American Nazis protested a Holocaust remembrance event. ...

bomberfox said:
Calling for genocide is not a right. We tried your method from 2001-present. It didnt work and they still grew. Ignoring them only lets them fester.
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Right. 10 people showing up is some significant 'growth.' :roll:
 
bomberfox said:
Calling for genocide is not a right. We tried your method from 2001-present. It didnt work and they still grew. Ignoring them only lets them fester.
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Remarkably incorrect. Makes no sense. Ridiculous.
 
MTAtech said:
What our white supremacist American nationalist friend was suggesting is that Holocaust denial is merely an alternative viewpoint, of equal validity to what actually happened, and should be taught side-by-side with the actual facts. Teaching that the Earth is flat shouldn't be taught as an alternative to actual science. While we don't have to criminalize stupid theories we don't also have to elevate their standing, as if they have equal legitimacy.
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Ridiculous; he made no such argument.
 
Sweden said:
Nobody on this thread has said that 'holocaust denial is a) of equal validity or b) that it should be taught. Misrepresenting someone's position in a discussion is a dirty little trick. Imo you should be ashamed.
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That’s exactly what AmNat was suggesting. It’s an alternative theory, according to him, that should be taught.
 
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bomberfox said:
I dont think AmNat knows what theory means. Even college is not a free for all for teachers to “teach the controversy” between alchemy and chemistry. It is a profound misunderstanding of what alternative theories really are. They are not resoundingly debunked hypothesis at best pitted on the same level as solid theory.
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You're mischaracterizing his argument.
 
bomberfox said:
I dont think AmNat knows what theory means. Even college is not a free for all for teachers to “teach the controversy” between alchemy and chemistry. It is a profound misunderstanding of what alternative theories really are. They are not resoundingly debunked hypothesis at best pitted on the same level as solid theory.
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If I was a Yank what would really concern me is that racism - that is the 'resoundingly debunked' concept that HS is divided in different 'races' - is taught in the US. And that creationism is permitted to be fed to small children.
 
MTAtech said:
That’s exactly what AmNat was suggesting. It’s only an alternative theory, according to him.
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Nope. Not what he said. In fact, he specifically stated that he didn't feel such ideas should have equal footing.
 
MTAtech said:
That’s exactly what AmNat was suggesting. It’s an alternative theory, according to him, that should be taught.
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Repeating the same lie again and again does not make it true.
 
3leftsdoo said:
Ridiculous; he made no such argument.
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Oh really. May I direct you to post #11, below:

AmNat said:
This is a great example of the deranged and totalitarian nature of the modern left. To them, simply having students (and graduate students at that, who should be expected to be able to deal with conflicting opinions) read an alternative historical viewpoint makes one a "Nazi". And of course, an allegation of being a "Nazi" is sufficient to make one so.
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Fletch said:
Right. 10 people showing up is some significant 'growth.' :roll:
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I dunno, Fletch. How many did the Westboro Baptist Church bring to disrupt funerals? It surely caused a ruckus and made news. However, a similar solution can be found.
Patriot Guard Riders, while their mission is to protest

here is part of their "vision"
The only prerequisite is Respect.

Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives:

Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.
Shield the mourning family and their friends from interruptions created by any protester or group of protesters.

We accomplish the latter through strictly legal and non-violent means.
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https://www.patriotguard.org/about-us/

Thinking back to this

Approximately two dozen white nationalists rallied in the nation's capital on Sunday, one year after clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, left one person dead and elevated racial tensions in America.
But they were vastly outnumbered by throngs of counterprotesters.
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'Unite the Right' rally: White nationalists dwarfed by crowds of counterprotesters - CNN

How different things could have been if counter protesters had taken a page from the PG playbook.
What have we become that we can't uphold our 1st Amendment without resorting to violence?
Yes, 10 people, ten thugs, that's not much. What happens next is up to the good people of this country.
 
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MTAtech said:
Oh really. May I direct you to post #11, below:
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Cherry picking to falsify his position.

He makes it clear that he simply supports academic freedom to explore various concepts in various fields.

"I'm not arguing that alternate views be placed on the same footing, but a total blacklisting of an idea represents a failure of academic inquiry."
 
3leftsdoo said:
Cherry picking to falsify his position.

He makes it clear that he simply supports academic freedom to explore various concepts in various fields.
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A) It's not cherrypicking since I quoted his entire post.
B) It's exactly his point that under the guise of academic freedom we should include Holocaust denial. There is no standard in academia that says that every fallacy, wild notion or baseless theory needs to be given academic credibility. If it were, we would have to include witchcraft in medical school; the theory of Atlantis in Geology; how Moses parted the Red Sea in oceanography; and, how man survived among the dinosaurs, since some people think the world is only 5,000 years old. We don't, because they aren't worth of being taken seriously -- like Holocaust deniers.
 
MTAtech said:
A) It's not cherrypicking since I quoted his entire post.
B) It's exactly his point that under the guise of academic freedom we should include Holocaust denial. There is no standard in academia that says that every fallacy, wild notion or baseless theory needs to be given academic credibility. If it were, we would have to include witchcraft in medical school; the theory of Atlantis in Geology; how Moses parted the Red Sea in oceanography; and, how man survived among the dinosaurs, since some people think the world is only 5,000 years old. We don't, because they aren't worth of being taken seriously -- like Holocaust deniers.
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It is cherry picking.

That isn't his point at all.

:)
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
So we are supposed to "tolerate" the Nazis but it's OK to demonize the "illegals" and/or "Muslims".
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All of these groups pose a threat! The difference is there are maybe a couple hundred "Nazis" who are just a bunch of uneducated hillbillies who love Hitler for killing the Jews but deny the Holocaust ever happened. Not the sharpest tools in shed.
 
AmNat said:
It's fashionable in some circles to deny that the Roman Empire systematically persecuted Christians. There is no merit to that revisionist theory either. If it were alleged that a deceased professor had once assigned graduate students reading material that presented such a narrative, would you call for scholarships named after him to be abolished?
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That would actually depend on exactly how the material was presented.

For example "Examine the documentary evidence upon which __[fill in the blank]__'s book "__[fill in the blank]__" is based, then compare and contrast it with the documentary evidence upon which the opposite of it is based." might well be is a valid assignment while simply "Read __[fill in the blank]__'s book "__[fill in the blank]__" might well not be.

On your second point, the current trend to eradicate any mention of any person who did anything at all that is (by today's standards) offensive is, in my opinion total dreck.
 
JMaximus said:
Current US law already bars entry of Nazis.
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Which was also the state of the law immediately following WWII.

That, of course, didn't stop the US government bringing in Germans (and Japanese) who had participated in war crimes and/or crimes against humanity (often using US government created false documentation), granting them both immunity and citizenship, and setting them up with very lucrative government jobs - did it?

PS - The US immigration laws do NOT - specifically - "ban Nazis" and never did.
 
MTAtech said:
Just to get us back to the thread, which seems to have been derailed...

To quote former President Obama, "can't we all agree that Nazis are bad?"
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Nazis were bad.

Neo-Nazis are a tragic symptom.
 
JMaximus said:
You can demonize the Nazis, too.
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Unlike Mr. Trump, I do discriminate against "Nazis" simply because they are "Nazis" (both foreign and domestic).

Also unlike Mr. Trump, I do not discriminate against "illegals" and "Muslims" (both foreign and domestic) simply because they are "illegals" or "Muslims".
 
Tigerace117 said:
No one is obligated to read the utter crap that is Holocaust denial, nor should anyone be peddling that load of bull****, especially not in schools.
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If you don't read it, how can you ever prove that it is wrong?
 
Grand Mal said:
Where'd you get that from? There's no link in the OP.
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Quite correct. The error was brought to my attention and the link was posted about one hour prior to you asking your question.

Grand Mal said:
Whatever. 10 or 15 is 10 or 15 more than ever before. How should we express that? As a multiple, you'll be multiplying 0 for a long time trying to get to 1. Same with percentage- if 0 is 100% of the nazi assholes who showed up last year, how much did it increase?
You guys denying that expressions of this kind of racism and bigotry have increased in the past couple years is like those other guys denying global warming. Just because your Dear Leader says that a lie becomes the truth as soon as he utters it doesn't make it so.
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Quite correct, an increase is an increase - isn't it?
 
The Mark said:
No amount of crimes is enough to ban Nazis.
Legal punishment of actions by individuals or groups/organizations who are nazis, sure.

But people have a right to be in groups so long as they don't violate laws.
And a law specifically targeting Nazi's seems like a bad direction to take things.
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But laws specifically targeting "Muslims" is OK?
 
Tigerace117 said:
It’s not “closed minded-ness”. The Holocaust happened. It’s a historical fact. The Germans produced thousands of documents detailing the events as they happened......not to mention, of course, the accounts of survivors, the testimony of the allied troops who liberated the camps, the admissions of the camp guards and Nazi hierarchy.......

Just like we don’t teach the “ancient aliens” theory in school, neither should we teach bull**** like Holocaust denial.
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But there are dozens of "scholarly works" produced by "respected researchers" that have "proven" that that so-called "documentation" was all created falsely.

Obviously you don't know **Y*H*E** **T*R*U*T*H** because you refuse to read anything that contradicts what "Those People" want you to believe - right?

[The above officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life Gun Owners for Jesus", and “The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]
 
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