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Thread: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    On what grounds? The Supremes don't mess with the states. They only do Federal stuff.
    Huh? Stop sniffing glue. For starters, have you read the Fourteenth Amendment?

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    This law seems to be directly aimed at Trump. I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I'll take a bet on the side that says this sort of selective legislation isn't permitted under our constitution.
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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Has anyone yet noted that the New York Legislature is bicameral? The preceding comments may contain much conjecture which will be mooted by the upcoming trip of the bill to the lower house. This sidewalk observer of the passing parade prefers to wait a while before digging into the issue.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    What federal law does New York tax law contradict?
    Presidential pardons and their scope.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wonder if the NY Senate will find Obama's transcripts during their investigations? Obviously the economy is so good that Trump's tax returns are now of so much interest to you. Wonder where this curiosity was with Obama and his background as a Community Agitator?
    Obama's tax returns have already been made public. Obama started out an an organizer, not an agitator. Not that I expect you to understand that sort of thing, There's nothing illegal in what he did. Also he lived in Illinois, not New York. Do brush up on your geography.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    I really do not give a crap what it sounds like to you. Your blindness does not change reality.
    Nothing to support your statement(s)?

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    What criminal behavior would be reported in a tax return? The man has been reported to have been audited multiple times.


    So, does your tribe actually know what a tax return is?
    He's lying about being audited right now. According to him he is in perpetual audit.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishking View Post
    The right for a person to be secure in his papers and effects. Any other easy questions?
    This does not apply in criminal investigations.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'd have to consider suggesting to my clients that they pay in whatever tax is due on their return but not actually file the return if this crap keeps up. If government, state or federal, can pull a person's tax return for purely political reasons AND if they can not protect the returns they have received from disclosure to the media then the people have no assurance that their personal information won't be similarly abused.

    I don't want any of my clients to go to jail but when we see politicians pulling crap like this it's time to stop handing the hangman more rope.
    The "for purely political reasons" is your own partisan spin on it.

    What you're suggesting as a principle is that it's OK for the WH to have access to any return it wants - it does, obviously, given the IRS is under the WH but also in Sec. 6103(g) per the link below - but that the Congress, with the power to tax and spend, and oversight duties, must ask permission from the WH to see tax returns as a group, or the tax return of a person or entity. It's not defensible as a principle that I can identify.

    The law is also crystal clear.

    26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

    (f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
    (1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
    Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.
    Read the bolded. That's been the law since 1924.

    Those interested can read more about the purpose of the law, why Congress gave itself the same access the President has, and more, here:

    How to Get Trump’s Tax Returns—Without a Subpoena - POLITICO Magazine

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.633f578cfa99

    Both articles are by George Yin, a UVa law professor and expert on the subject. There's nowhere in the law that says Congress must even state a reason, and certainly nothing in there says the Secretary gets to make the call whether the stated intent is sufficient reason.

    You've done taxes for a while - what part of that law appears optional to you? In my experience dealing with the IRC, "shall" means shall, and "any" means any.

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    This does not apply in criminal investigations.
    Ah....so a couple of questions.

    1. What’s the crime?
    2. Which branch of government is responsible for criminal investigations?
    “There are no self-proclaimed villains, only regiments of self-proclaimed saints. Victorious historians rule where good or evil lies.” ― Glen Cook, Chronicles of the Black Company

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    Re: N.Y. Senate passes bills on Trump's tax returns and pardon power

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Why don't you tell us why this sort of action is proper? In an ideal world, there is no income tax-which was established-not for an efficient source of government income-but rather to give the government all sorts of powers that it was not given constitutionally. But do you believe candidates should lose any and all privacy on tax issues?
    What part of the law should we disregard? It's been on the books since 1924, is crystal clear - 'shall' and 'any return' - Congress has the power to tax and spend, and granted itself the same access to tax returns that is available to the President. You'll have to explain why the law as passed is unconstitutional, and some principle why Congress must first ask permission from the WH for access to tax return data.

    The law also provides reasonable protection for privacy. If involving individuals, it can only be reviewed in closed session and the disclosure has to meet proper standards for being in the public interest. It would seem to me that's (disclosure) the proper place for the debate, not whether Congress should have to ask Trump - pretty please - to get tax returns from the IRS.

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