Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘legitimate

apdst · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

beefheart said:
Nice try, no personal attacks, just attacking how you post. And providing you with legal definitions that you chose to ignore. You may ignore the legal definitions, however, doing so shall point out to everyone how wrong you are.

You used shall differently than the law does.

apdst · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

roughdraft274 said:
The law clearly states that the IRS shall hand over the tax returns. If they don't hand them over then they are breaking the law. It could not be any more simple than that.

Waiting.

cabse5 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Mycroft said:
I disagree. I think Mnuchin and Barr are saying, "Show me your cojones, Dems."

Too bad the Dems don't have any.

Dems know they are in the wrong, constitutionally. They are trying to stay in the right, politically, (just as they were with the Mueller investigation before the verdict).
Dems know they can't win, legally, they're hoping the other party caves due to political pressure.

Who knows, maybe the dems are just promoting anarchy?

Anthony60 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

beefheart said:
Red herring question, it means nothing. Does the word "shall" appear in the Constitution?

Tell you what, get sued and lose, and when the judge tells you what you shall do as part of the judgement, play some baloney word game, tell me how that goes.

You seem to think that the word "shall" overrides the Constitution and gives Congress plenary power to demand and do as it pleases. In reality, Congress must have a proper legislative purpose behind their request. Now, Pelosi has already stated that there is no impeachment investigation going on. So, how can they justify the request?

Now, Congress has never sought to obtain any other President's tax returns. So, this is extraordinarily unusual. They need a pretty damn good reason, and they've already told us it's not impeachment. So, it's only political at this point. They are not allowed to just reach into people's lives and demand tax returns, because they want to snoop around. What is their "proper legislative purpose" for wanting the returns? Without that, they can't have them.

ocean515 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

tres borrachos said:
HAHAHA! Your concession is accepted.

Good. I was definitely conceding that your base of knowledge is so lacking, I couldn't possibly overcome it. Glad you accepted it.

roughdraft274 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

apdst said:
Ok...show us where that is clearly stated.

This has been pointed out to you already. I'm not going to feed your trolling past this. Have a good one.

Anthony60 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

tres borrachos said:
Not without Beckham unfortunately, but as a Giants fan I appreciate your optimism. I guess it all comes down to how healthy Barkley stays. And with those beautiful legs, I hope it's forever.

Right now, I consider Beckham an addition by subtraction. Besides, he had trouble staying on the field. They still have a long way to go. But they will win it all! (one day)

tres borrachos · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Anthony60 said:
Right now, I consider Beckham an addition by subtraction. Besides, he had trouble staying on the field. They still have a long way to go. But they will win it all! (one day)

He couldn't stay healthy, and he sure couldn't keep his head together. But when he was on, he was ON. Let's see what he does in Cleveland.

They will win it again sooner than the experts predict I'll bet. I'm still all in behind Manning but look forward to watching his ultimate successor come up.

tres borrachos · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

ocean515 said:
Good. I was definitely conceding that your base of knowledge is so lacking, I couldn't possibly overcome it. Glad you accepted it.

Yes, I accept that you had to run away. It's no big deal. It happens all the time with you.

cabse5 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Anthony60 said:
You seem to think that the word "shall" overrides the Constitution and gives Congress plenary power to demand and do as it pleases. In reality, Congress must have a proper legislative purpose behind their request. Now, Pelosi has already stated that there is no impeachment investigation going on. So, how can they justify the request?

Now, Congress has never sought to obtain any other President's tax returns. So, this is extraordinarily unusual. They need a pretty damn good reason, and they've already told us it's not impeachment. So, it's only political at this point. They are not allowed to just reach into people's lives and demand tax returns, because they want to snoop around. What is their "proper legislative purpose" for wanting the returns? Without that, they can't have them.

Dems don't want to tell you they want Trump's taxes to, at least, continue the Russia conspiracy investigation by 'proving' Trump 'owed' the Russians before he campaigned for president.

EDIT: I suppose Mueller never investigated this...You see, dems don't know if Mueller investigated this because they haven't read the Mueller Report because it hasn't been fully redacted.:lamo

2nd EDIT: Well, I suppose, someone in the media could leak it to them.

apdst · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

roughdraft274 said:
This has been pointed out to you already. I'm not going to feed your trolling past this. Have a good one.

Which post?

Airyaman · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Roadvirus said:
So you hate the Constitution that much huh?

Congress can look at anyone's tax records at anytime, whenever the mood strikes them....and you don't care?
You don't deserve your rights if you don't mind them being **** on.

What part of the Constitution does this violate? You do not own the information you turn over to the IRS.

jmotivator · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Tanngrisnir said:
For legitimate congressional oversight of the executive branch, as is an Article 1 mandate for the legislative branch.

The President's private tax returns are not a function of the executive branch.

roughdraft274 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

ocean515 said:
What if a Federal Court issues an injunction to stop the IRS from doing so?

Would the IRS be breaking the law if they went ahead and released the returns anyway?

Should citizens have any right to try and stop government actions that could be seen as politically motivated?

Has a federal court issued an injunction?

This has to stop. The argument that "they are only requesting these documents for political purposes" could be used against any investigation into any politician from now to eternity. The law has been on the books for a long time, the person requesting the documents has specified a non-partisan reason to get the documents, they should be handed over. And if they are leaked, he should be held accountable for it. If a court issues an injunction, then that changes things. But you can't withhold documents just in case an injunction comes later. Right now, they are breaking the law.

Tanngrisnir · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

jmotivator said:
The President's private tax returns are not a function of the executive branch.

Correct! It's a function of the legislative branch, which has an oversight duty over the executive branch.

Glad I could set you straight about that

You're most welcome.

yankintx · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Lutherf said:
Mnuchin says he won'''t release Trump'''s tax returns, says it lacks '''legitimate legislative purpose'''

Basically, Mnuchin and Barr are saying "Let's take this to court and see what they say". That's EXACTLY what they should do too.

Frankly, it kind of feels good to see an administration fight for justice and the rights of the American people.

Trump will loose on not releasing his tax returns. He should thank the Dems, they will help him fufill a campaign promise, one he made on multiple occasions. I believe a Thank you card is in the works addressed to Speaker Pelosi.

Care to elaborate how this is championing Amercans? I find that statement perplexing.

cabse5 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Tanngrisnir said:
Correct! It's a function of the legislative branch, which has an oversight duty over the executive branch.

Glad I could set you straight about that

You're most welcome.

You just showed you hand that you want Trump's returns to find misdeeds that occurred before Trump was president. Have you read the Mueller Report to find if Mueller already investigated this?

jmotivator · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Tanngrisnir said:
Correct! It's a function of the legislative branch, which has an oversight duty over the executive branch.

They have oversight of the executive branch, meaning they have authority to review actions taken by the president as a function of his executive authority. His private tax returns, especially those from before he was even president, have absolutely nothing to do with the office of the executive and executive authority.

Glad I could set you straight about that

You're most welcome.

Indeed. You seem to have confused the Office of the Executive with the private life of the office holder.

Taylor · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Airyaman said:
What part of the Constitution does this violate? You do not own the information you turn over to the IRS.

Congress has enumerated powers. They don't have blanket authority to do as they please. The Constitution does not give them unlimited authority to search tax records.

Khayembii Communique · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

apdst said:
It could very easily be ruled a violation of the 4th Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

No, it couldn't:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.

IRS data files aren't any person's "houses, papers, [or] effects". They belong to the IRS.

Tanngrisnir · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

cabse5 said:
You just showed you hand that you want Trump's returns to find misdeeds that occurred before Trump was president.

No, I didn't. But, by all means, if you need to keep pretending, please keep pretending.

Tanngrisnir · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

jmotivator said:
They have oversight of the executive branch, meaning they have authority to review actions taken by the president as a function of his executive authority. His private tax returns, especially those from before he was even president, have absolutely nothing to do with the office of the executive and executive authority.

Indeed, they do! I see that my lesson hasn't been lost on you. And his private tax returns, whether before or after he took office, have everything to do with that.

Indeed. You seem to have confused the Office of the Executive with the private life of the office holder.

Nope. Not even remotely.

Again, you're most welcome. Glad I could set you straight.

cabse5 · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Tanngrisnir said:
No, I didn't. But, by all means, if you need to keep pretending, please keep pretending.

Did the Mueller Report investigate Trump's tax returns before he was president?

Tanngrisnir · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Taylor said:
Congress has enumerated powers. They don't have blanket authority to do as they please. The Constitution does not give them unlimited authority to search tax records.

The law gives the chairman of that committee the right to the tax returns of the POTUS, no matter how much that upsets you.

And that's fun!

tres borrachos · May 7, 2019

Re: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘

Taylor said:
Congress has enumerated powers. They don't have blanket authority to do as they please. The Constitution does not give them unlimited authority to search tax records.

A 1924 law on the books does.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin won’t release Trump’s tax returns to Congress, says no ‘legitimate

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