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Elizabeth Warren releases sweeping student debt cancellation and free college plan

tres borrachos said:
I disagree with her plan for many reasons. One is, what about all the people who had to pay off student loans in the past?
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I have met two kinds of people in my life.

One type is the person who has had it tough and thinks anyone that receives help that they did not is simply unfair to them. They think all must suffer as they did.

The other type is someone who had it tough and sees no need for others to have to struggled as they did.

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BTW, I too disagree with her. Not in principle but practicality, as you speak to. Where is this money gonna come from?

I favor all kinds of programs the DEms advocate, in principle but until our entire debt is paid, I will support no new program (expense) for anything.
 
mike2810 said:
No, I don't believe in giving out participation trophies. That is other do.
I really dislike people who throw out "right wing" as trying to bait someone. Well you can believe or not believe my post. Figure a lib would find it hard to believe someone can get through college without debt.

I know I didn't get paid what kids get paid today. Here is a calculator for you to figure out the worth of a dollar. I picked 1972 when I went to a University.
Calculate the value of $1.00 in 1972. How much is it worth today?

My age is close to 70, since you sorta asked. Finished college mid 1975. BS/MS.
A dollar in 1972 is equal to just over $6.00 in 2019.

The problem is the Feds student loans. If a person defaults, we the tax payer are stuck with the bill.

I can agree that college is expensive today. How would you bring the cost down.
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Have a quality government paid for on line University that is free. That way students in rural communities can get an education while living at home. Students could also go to college on line for two years for free then transfer to a Major University cutting their total costs for college in half. Drastically reduce the amount the government would guarantee on loans. That would dry up the student loan well. That would force colleges to tighten there belts and to reduce prices. Right now they are draining the student loan well at students expense.
 
SLC said:
Have a quality government paid for on line University that is free. That way students in rural communities can get an education while living at home. Students could also go to college on line for two years for free then transfer to a Major University cutting their total costs for college in half. Drastically reduce the amount the government would guarantee on loans. That would dry up the student loan well. That would force colleges to tighten there belts and to reduce prices. Right now they are draining the student loan well at students expense.
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Let's not forget the trades schools. Many young people have no desire to go to college. They want to work in the trades. Seems only fair if the govt. is going to help college students then the trades students should also get assistance.
 
mike2810 said:
Let's not forget the trades schools. Many young people have no desire to go to college. They want to work in the trades. Seems only fair if the govt. is going to help college students then the trades students should also get assistance.
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I agree
 
If what I have been reading in the media is accurate, her plan to pay for all of this is to institute a 2% "wealth tax" on the 75,000 largest fortunes in the US.

A few things that make that problematic come to mind immediately...calculation of wealth or value can become a very tricky and time consuming endeavor, and wealth can be easily moved around and/or devalued.

Second, the 16th Amendment allows congress to tax income; proposing a tax on wealth would likely end up in front of SCOTUS.
 
No one else made anyone take those loans. This is why ‘democracy’ is dangerous. You should not be able vote yourself your neighbors resources.

Personally I think the 2A was intended to defend against such abuses.
 
Aberration said:
No one else made anyone take those loans. This is why ‘democracy’ is dangerous. You should not be able vote yourself your neighbors resources.

Personally I think the 2A was intended to defend against such abuses.
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I agree with this statement.
 
Maybe we should stop filling our higher education systems with foreigners that take that education back home with them. Its better money spent of educating the local population.
 
mike2810 said:
No, I don't believe in giving out participation trophies. That is other do.
I really dislike people who throw out "right wing" as trying to bait someone. Well you can believe or not believe my post. Figure a lib would find it hard to believe someone can get through college without debt.

I know I didn't get paid what kids get paid today. Here is a calculator for you to figure out the worth of a dollar. I picked 1972 when I went to a University.
Calculate the value of $1.00 in 1972. How much is it worth today?

My age is close to 70, since you sorta asked. Finished college mid 1975. BS/MS.
A dollar in 1972 is equal to just over $6.00 in 2019.

The problem is the Feds student loans. If a person defaults, we the tax payer are stuck with the bill.

I can agree that college is expensive today. How would you bring the cost down.
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If a person defaults no one foots the bill. The student just keeps having fees stacked on fees and never gets a tax return. I know, I have plenty of friends who are still dealing with the cataclysmic fall out from a default.

And no, the problem is not federal loans. The problem is greed, graft, waste, and administrative fees. The other issue is that college is overrated and trade schools are ignored.

Let's look at a few other tidbits about 1972:

New House – $27,600

Average Income – $11,859 per year

New Car – $3,853

Average Rent – $165 per month

Tuition to Harvard University – $2,800

Movie Ticket – $1.75

Gasoline – $.55 per gallon

Postage Stamp – $.08

Bacon – $.83 per pound

Eggs – $.45 per dozen

Fresh Ground Hamburger – $.64 per pound

Milk – $1.20 per gallon


Yeah, you were able - because everything, everything was lower. Rent prices are what, $1175 for a two bedroom, compared to the above $165. There is far more to this picture than initially meets the eye, and while I agree the promise of federal dollars brings out the worst in capitalists salivating with greed, and have admitted the government is culpable as well, I do not believe we can just ignore the problem.

You really dislike me throwing out right wing, and then you immediately throw out libs as if I am a liberal. Definitely not a liberal or I'd have voted for HRC, and I did not.
 
People say she's hard to like, but so far I've found her position statements very agreeable!
 
JustHanging said:
Just to make sure we're on the same page: If you get something without paying for it, because someone else paid for it, you got that something for free. You do understand that correct?

And no, obviously saying you're going to take the money from Mexico is different than saying you're going to take the money from the rich. You're obviously referring to two different groups.

So Trump supporters are all for taking money from Mexico to get something for free, but are against taking money from the rich to get something for free. LOL, I need a score card to keep track of your "principles", and who it's ok to take stuff from and who it's not.
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Im not a Trump supporter.
 
Aberration said:
No one else made anyone take those loans. This is why ‘democracy’ is dangerous. You should not be able vote yourself your neighbors resources.

Personally I think the 2A was intended to defend against such abuses.
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“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) Elizabeth Warren releases sweeping student debt cancellation and free college plan

I think most of us agree something needs to be done to make higher education more affordable. But I'm torn on this plan.

Firstly - it helps those currently in debt, while doing nothing for those of us that already paid-off our loans through the years. Secondly - it will be a means-tested benefit, which I despise; I believe in giving benefits equitably. And thirdly - I see nothing in the plan to addresses the cost of tuition, but rather the plan calls for even more grants! And again, those grants are means-tested!

So I don't think I particularly care for this plan, even if it would help quite a few kids I know. I think I very much prefer offering a public community college option, to save the kids two year's of university tuition. I really worry that it's the loans and grants that drive tuition escalation, at least in part.

But yes, sadly this issue very much needs to be addressed. You won't find many that promote education more, than me. And it's currently not working as well in America, as in some of our peer nations like England & Germany.
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It's a nice thought, but I have one question - Who is going to pay for it?
 
Napoleon said:
I think you’re onto something there. My generation was raised to believe that the only path to success is a college education. It’s the biggest lie ever sold and we have a massive debt bubble to prove it. Americans have really lost sight of the value of trade schools and apprenticeships.
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I think the bolded depends upon one's definition of success. What I can say, is that education is well known as the "great equalizer", which it very much can be if done well. If done poorly, it can be an expensive mess.
 
mike2810 said:
Actually, I paid as I went. No loans.
Used community college for a couple of years to get the basics out of the way. Worked nights, weekends Saved like mad.
Transferred to a University. Worked wildfires during the summer. Worked weekends , paid for college I kept my living cost to a minimum. Lived in crappy apartments, cooked at home, shopped at discount clothing stores.

Wonder how many working high school kids are saving for college / trade school. Or are they spending the money on stuff.
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I fully agree with what you did here, and greatly respect it. But I wonder if you did this awhile ago? Because today it would be very hard for a kid to pay-as-they-go through a university (given the tuition rates).
 
tres borrachos said:
I disagree with her plan for many reasons. One is, what about all the people who had to pay off student loans in the past? I'm lucky - my parents had enough money to pay for my schooling, but that is hardly the case with others. Two, the US government does not have an unlimited pool of funds to do this, and yes, the schools do expect to be paid. Third, the means tested is really not the right way to attack it.

I think the costs of higher education need reforming, but this isn't the way to do it. What is? I don't know. Luckily I don't have to give a solution.

If our lawmakers want to add value, they can look at root cause analyses of the costs and find better ways to address them.

Her salary as a law professor was very high. Maybe that's one way it can come down, right?
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The concern about the student loans i the past is like saying 'What about all those poor people who died of measles before, so why worry about a vaccine now'.
 
danarhea said:
It's a nice thought, but I have one question - Who is going to pay for it?
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A two percent tax on people who have 50M or more
 
SLC said:
A better plan is to reduce what colleges can charge students. Colleges could start by reducing the bloated salaries of professors like she was.
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Unfortunately, reducing the professor's salaries may not be that easy. The university is competing with private business for those same individuals.

In my area of work, academia pays quite a bit less than private industry. Academia's very cushy though, which is why some guys like to carry-out a second career in it - after they've earned their money and raised their families and paid-off or sold the four bedroom family house.
 
PirateMk1 said:
I would also make the debt eligible for bankruptcy just like almost all other debt is. Put some risk reward factors back into the finical game for the creditors.
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:thumbs:
 
Just another pandering Democrat with a dumb idea. Us normals don't take it seriously
I'm afraid we'll be seeing a lot of this as the Klown Kar is full and the pandering will be epic- even for Democrats!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That (bolded above) has become quite obvious. Would you pay someone $100 to mow your lawn if they had to repay a student loan to get their PHD in philosophy?
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I'm hiring someone to cut my lawn. Why would I care about their academic credentials? I care about their lawn care credentials.

Would you recommend that folks who mow lawns for a living borrow money to (try to?) get a PHD in philosophy knowing that it would not raise their income or permit repayment of that loan?
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What does that have to do with the topic we were discussing: What Universities charge for tuition?

The idea that the US taxpayers should "invest" in creating as many folks attempting to get PHDs in philosophy, under water basket weaving or French literature as possible makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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I never said that. Try again?
 
SLC said:
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin
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Yep. But it turns out the "they" he was talking about wasn't the general citizenry, it was the politicians.

Trump will personally save up to $15m/year under tax bill, analysis finds
Jared Kushner will save up to $12m, while five other members of Trump’s inner circle will also see benefits worth millions of dollars

And it is indeed heralding the end of the Republic. Did you know that top White House staffers have to put the Orange Snowflake's feelings (what else can you call him?) ahead of national security? True story.


The crazy thing is, many of the same people who post that quote, support someone who does exactly what the quote warns about. They're either dumb or deluded, don't you think?
 
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danarhea said:
It's a nice thought, but I have one question - Who is going to pay for it?
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If you want to have an educated society, then society is going to have to foot the bill. Otherwise you can get an Idiocracy, which isn't working out so well imo.
 
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