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Videos appear to show armed militia detaining migrants at US-Mexico border

A bunch of White Trash losers pretending to be Border Patrol...Maybe that asshole trump will give them medals
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Probably not but legally speaking, they are "acting under color of authority", which they do not legally have.
And if we accept this on any level, in any situation, even in situations where it can be argued that such an outfit is acting in what can be described as "best interests", then will ultimately wind up normalizing it.

And the problem with normalizing self appointed private armies is well known in other parts of the world, where "death squads" operate or where unauthorized militia overthrow legitimate elected governments.

An army is a group which is sworn by the government to act in defense of a nation. Law enforcement are sworn by the government to enforce the laws. Groups like these are not sworn to anyone but themselves. They have no legal or constitutional authority to act under color of authority or to claim such authority.

If they can be allowed to carry out exercises like this one, then they can assemble anywhere for any purpose and get away with doing whatever they wish, like knocking down doors in your neighborhood or mine and barking orders at citizens and legal residents.
So even if one argues that they are acting in the public interest in this instance, they are NOT AUTHORIZED to do so.
Sounds like picayune hair splitting to some, but it's actually a pretty big deal because it opens the door to all manner of abuses.

"Today" they're rounding up illegal immigrants.
"Tomorrow" they might decide to round up groups of other people they don't like.
"Today" ICE agents might raid a place of employment, but "tomorrow" Joe Blow's Militia might decide to do some "raids" of their own.

And last but not least, acting under color of authority, i.e. marching around armed and "in uniform" and spewing out the correct "lingo" can potentially put legitimate military and legitimate law enforcement in great danger.

I said "probably not" up above because we're now living in an age where we are no longer a nation of laws anymore, therefore those in power don't see this as any sort of problem.

If a nation begins to accept ad hoc private militias as having legitimate authority, then either everyone has authority or no one does.
Are we really ready to accept an America run by a group of "warlords"?
Because that is what this sort of horse crap ultimately leads to.
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Catching someone committing a felony is different than breaking their door down....
 
Integrityrespec said:
Citizens arrest. Citizens arrest.
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Nope, been tried before and was rejected. They have no legal standing as is. Now there is a way around it if the owner of the land goes along with it and that is to have them hired as security guards to prevent tresoassing, then they can detain anyone on that property and turn them over to law.
 
AlphaOmega said:
A migrant may come here legally or illegally. Which are you referring to?
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Presumably the individuals in the video crossed the border without documentation, making them illegal immigrants. However they have the right to apply for asylum in the US, and may therefore be granted residency.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Probably not but legally speaking, they are "acting under color of authority", which they do not legally have.
And if we accept this on any level, in any situation, even in situations where it can be argued that such an outfit is acting in what can be described as "best interests", then will ultimately wind up normalizing it.
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Actually they do under common law that is accepted by almost every state. Which is a citizens arrest. Unless new mexico has some law (which i have yet to find). They 100% had a legal right to detain them
until officials showed up. This is common anywhere you see someone committing a crime. you are allowed to make a citizens arrest.

And the problem with normalizing self appointed private armies is well known in other parts of the world, where "death squads" operate or where unauthorized militia overthrow legitimate elected governments.

An army is a group which is sworn by the government to act in defense of a nation. Law enforcement are sworn by the government to enforce the laws. Groups like these are not sworn to anyone but themselves. They have no legal or constitutional authority to act under color of authority or to claim such authority.
Click to expand...
They are allowed to make citizens arrests.

If they can be allowed to carry out exercises like this one, then they can assemble anywhere for any purpose and get away with doing whatever they wish, like knocking down doors in your neighborhood or mine and barking orders at citizens and legal residents.
So even if one argues that they are acting in the public interest in this instance, they are NOT AUTHORIZED to do so.
Sounds like picayune hair splitting to some, but it's actually a pretty big deal because it opens the door to all manner of abuses.
Click to expand...

No they cannot do that you are making stuff up at this point.

"Today" they're rounding up illegal immigrants.
"Tomorrow" they might decide to round up groups of other people they don't like.
"Today" ICE agents might raid a place of employment, but "tomorrow" Joe Blow's Militia might decide to do some "raids" of their own.
Click to expand...

slippery slope fallacy

And last but not least, acting under color of authority, i.e. marching around armed and "in uniform" and spewing out the correct "lingo" can potentially put legitimate military and legitimate law enforcement in great danger.

I said "probably not" up above because we're now living in an age where we are no longer a nation of laws anymore, therefore those in power don't see this as any sort of problem.

If a nation begins to accept ad hoc private militias as having legitimate authority, then either everyone has authority or no one does.
Are we really ready to accept an America run by a group of "warlords"?
Because that is what this sort of horse crap ultimately leads to.
Click to expand...

again slippery slope fallacy.

the people in the group have the ability to make a citizens arrest which is what they did.
 
Casper said:
Nope, been tried before and was rejected. They have no legal standing as is. Now there is a way around it if the owner of the land goes along with it and that is to have them hired as security guards to prevent tresoassing, then they can detain anyone on that property and turn them over to law.
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actually it hasn't and citizen arrests are still in effect today.
 
ludin said:
actually it hasn't and citizen arrests are still in effect today.
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They had ZERO authority to impersonate Border Patrol...Zero Authority to brandish weapons against women and children....Citizen Arrest???............BULL****
 
Irredentist said:
These militia have no legal authority to detain migrants, and simply rely on intimidation to coerce them into following commands. Additional education should be provided so that migrants can tell the difference between imposters and legitimate law enforcement.
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We need to spend tax money on educating would-be illegals in other countries on how to better behave illegally.

Because this entire mess isn't costing enough now.

Got it.
 
ecofarm said:
If by extremely racist you mean contributes to the systemic oppression of no one.
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That can be a component of racism, but not its sole defining characteristic.

And trailer trash is the non-racist (though classist) term FFR.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Ah, what a convincing counterargument......not.

Pansies who run around waving rifles at women and little kids and jerk off to Red Dawn are no match for former Mexican special forces.
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Wow.

I want to see that movie.

But it has nothing to do with the topic.

:)
 
JacksinPA said:
Videos appear to show armed militia detaining migrants at US-Mexico border | US news | The Guardian

The American Civil Liberties Union is calling the actions a ‘kidnapping’ and a flagrant violation of the law

Armed rightwing militia members detained a large group of migrants at the US-Mexico border and coordinated with US border patrol agents to have them arrested, according to the American Civil Liberties Union, in a series of actions the civil liberties organization called a “kidnapping” and a flagrant violation of the law.

Several videos taken at the border in New Mexico this week appeared to show men belonging to a group that calls itself the United Constitutional Patriots approaching migrant families and children, ordering them to sit down, calling federal agents on them, and at one point potentially misrepresenting themselves by saying “border patrol” as they approached.
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Hmmm.... Armed squads of vigilantes roaming our borders & illegally 'detaining' groups of migrants? I'll bet they all voted for Trump.
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This is all moot. Most of these people want to be arrested. That's the game. Come across the border illegally, put your arms up and be arrested, claim asylum, and have Uncle Sam take care of you. What we need to do is stop these people from crossing the border in the first place because the second they cross, we have already lost the ballgame.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
If you tell someone to sit down its not kidnapping. Youd have to actually attempt to MOVE them against their will for it to be considered kidnapping. So like when a cop arrests you unlawfully that would be kidnapping.

Pretty sure crossing the border at a non checkpoint is a federal offense. Technically you are allowed to stop someone committing a federal crime or felony.
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One would think, but apparently not in this case.

At any rate, it's not clear that they did this.
 
Saladin4 said:
They had ZERO authority to impersonate Border Patrol...Zero Authority to brandish weapons against women and children....Citizen Arrest???............BULL****
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It's not at all clear that they did these things.
 
3leftsdoo said:
That can be a component of racism, but not its sole defining characteristic.
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In the academic and otherwise learned world, it is the defining characteristic between racial bigotry (an individual act) and racism (a social construct).

And trailer trash is the non-racist (though classist) term FFR.
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Agreed, however, more than class goes into it.

And white trash is the same term. And also not racist or even racially bigoted. The term white trash makes no judgement on white people as a whole.
 
3leftsdoo said:
We need to spend tax money on educating would-be illegals in other countries on how to better behave illegally.

Because this entire mess isn't costing enough now.

Got it.
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I do not envision it as a job for US tax dollars, but rather for the migrant advocacy groups already working to assist these people in their journeys. This is just one more element they must work to prepare migrants for once they arrive in the United States.
 
Irredentist said:
Presumably the individuals in the video crossed the border without documentation, making them illegal immigrants. However they have the right to apply for asylum in the US, and may therefore be granted residency.
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So you meant illegals. Asylum from what exactly?
 
ecofarm said:
In the academic and otherwise learned world, it is the defining characteristic between racial bigotry (an individual act) and racism (a social construct).



Agreed, however, more than class goes into it.

And white trash is the same term. And also not racist or even racially bigoted. The term white trash makes no judgement on white people as a whole.
Click to expand...

I think we'd really need to apply a broader definition here.

W**** t**** is a racist/bigoted term, and demeans people of color as well as whites.
 
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