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[W:914,1223] Robert Mueller's report is out

My, my, my, exactly how inaccurate can one get.

What was sold to the Russians was a "company with the right to process Uranium in the United States of America" and that company wasn't even an American company.

Quite frankly the Russians wanted neither "Uranium One" nor the rights to process Uranium in the United States of America. What the Russians wanted was the mining concessions in Tajikistan that "Uranium One" held. The Canadian owners of "Uranium One" forced the Russians to take "Uranium One" off their hands entirely in order to get those mining concessions. (BTW, did you know that at least NINE agencies of the government of the United States of America "signed off" on that sale, and did you also know that not a speck of American Uranium was exported by "Uranium One" to Russia?)

If it was anyone but you who had posted what you did, I'd be suggesting that the expiry date of their day pass from "The Home" be checked.

They got a whack of Uranium. And Billy made a reported half a mil for...being Billy in Russia. Then some Russians, reportedly at the behest of Vlady, hacked both the DNC and the RNC, gained access to DNC systems through Podesta (poetic justice?), and proceeded to try to screw Hillary. In the mean time there was a bunch of social media hanky-panky going on...also reportedly done by some Russians.

Russians don't like Hil much...do they. Wonder why?

Let's say, as the Mueller Report suggests, that while the campaign was going on, and Trump was being Trump, calling for Russians to release a bunch of emails, and all the sudden Hillary Clinton emails show up all over Wikileaks. Can anyone 'prove' that Trump beaking off about Hilary's already infamous emails, was "collusion" with Russia? No. Can anyone 'prove' that what was said at Trump Tower between Jr. and some Russians was "collusion"? No.

There's no "smoking gun".
 
I finally finished reading the whole thing. The level of detail is impressive, they really searched hard for evidence of conspiracy and coordination (not collusion) with Russians to interfere with the election. There were many interactions with Russians who sought to interfere with the election, but Mueller couldn't make the case. He found shared aims, benefits to Trump's campaign, and cooperation...... .

Revealing. The Mueller report specifically stated that they couldnt establish any "cooperation" between the Trump campaign and Russia. Did you read the whole thing just so you would know how to misrepresent the report?
 
Does the **** that Trump has pulled make you feel all warm and fuzzy or do you actually think he's done some terrible things?

Trump's a dick. Can't be said any plainer than that.
But it looks like it took a real dick to have the backbone to stand up to the Globalists.

Do you realize that Ukraine just elected a COMEDIAN in a landslide because of his common sense, Nationalist platform?
 
If he isn't proven guilty, he is assumed innocent in the eyes of the law. It doesn't mean one is actually innocent. Many people commit crimes and get away with it. Those people are not innocent, they've merely not been found guilty in a court of law. How can you be so wrong on something so grade-school simple?

You have moved from "Mueller will sort this out" to conspiracy theory rather easily. :roll:

Trump has been the one acting like a petulant child, throwing out insults on Twitter, behaving far below the levels of decorum warranted by the Presidency. Trump divides, it's that simple. He lives off of manufactured Reality-TV drama to rile up his base and opponents alike. He has never, and can never, unite. Russia got exactly what they wanted in a Trump Presidency.

No, Trump is acting like a person wrongfully accused. He was innocent, and it took two years and the jobs of 8 investigators for the truth to come out. Like the 2016 election, you have convinced yourself of a fallacy and would rather tear **** up than admit your error.

Nonsense. Trump has never behaved like a President and does nothing more than stir up cheap drama and attacks and petty personal feuds to fuel the Trumpeteer Cult Frenzy. Spinning narratives and spewing propaganda while ignoring reality or reason. He constantly lies, has been under investigation since the start because he engages in shady business top to bottom, and can do nothing more than launch childish attacks at opponents. There's nothing irrational about thoroughly disliking the Trump Presidency, he has been the worst President in modern times.

Trump has accomplished a lot of policy priorities for someone who hasn't behaved like a President. Negotiated peace talks in North Korea, defeated ISIS, lowest unemployment rates in a generation, secured the release of hostages, all while half the country acts as if he is the anti-Christ and acted on their insanity.

Get over it.
 
They got a whack of Uranium.

The Russians didn't get a gram of American Uranium.

And Billy made a reported half a mil for...being Billy in Russia.

He charged what the market would bear. Mr. Trump would call that "Smart!".

Then some Russians, reportedly at the behest of Vlady, hacked both the DNC and the RNC, gained access to DNC systems through Podesta (poetic justice?), and proceeded to try to screw Hillary.

Which was illegal, wasn't it?

In the mean time there was a bunch of social media hanky-panky going on...also reportedly done by some Russians.

Russians don't like Hil much...do they. Wonder why?

Not in the least. The Russians did NOT want Ms. Clinton elected to the office of President because they knew that they couldn't "play" her anywhere near as effectively as they thought that they could "play" any of the Republican candidates - especially Mr. Trump.

Let's say, as the Mueller Report suggests, that while the campaign was going on, and Trump was being Trump, calling for Russians to release a bunch of emails, and all the sudden Hillary Clinton emails show up all over Wikileaks. Can anyone 'prove' that Trump beaking off about Hilary's already infamous emails, was "collusion" with Russia? No.

Indeed, and I have never advanced the position that the Russians and either Mr. Trump or "Team Trump" colluded/conspired. (The reason for me NOT doing that is that I do not act on the theory that the collective IQ of the Russian government is somewhat south of 100.)

So what is your point.

My point is that the Russians were more than willing to engage in illegal activity in order to "nudge" the results of the 2016 election in the direction that they wanted AND that both Mr. Trump and "Team Trump" were more than willing to accept (indirectly and without "joint planning") the benefits of the Russian's efforts.

Can anyone 'prove' that what was said at Trump Tower between Jr. and some Russians was "collusion"? No.

There's no "smoking gun".

Since I have never said that there was any "collusion/conspiracy" why would I want to "prove" that there was.

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "conspire/collude" with that someone to rob the banks? Obviously the answer is "No.".

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "do something I ought not have done" with regard to that someone robbing banks? Obviously the answer is "__[fill in the blank]__.".

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "commit a misdemeanour" with regard to that someone robbing banks? Obviously the answer is "__[fill in the blank]__.".
 
Remember when Trump said Clinton was not qualified to be President because of all of the times she couldn't remember? I do.

Mr. Trump does NOT have to be "qualified" to be the President of the United States of America because he was "elected" to be the President of the United States of America.
 
Trump's a dick. Can't be said any plainer than that.
But it looks like it took a real dick to have the backbone to stand up to the Globalists.

Do you realize that Ukraine just elected a COMEDIAN in a landslide because of his common sense, Nationalist platform?

True, but I'll bet that there are going to be days when he wishes that he could still say "I am not a President, I just play one on TV.".
 
Trump has accomplished a lot of policy priorities for someone who hasn't behaved like a President. Negotiated peace talks in North Korea, defeated ISIS, lowest unemployment rates in a generation, secured the release of hostages, ...

Your diploma from "Pollyanna Tech" will be arriving in the mail shortly.

... all while half the country acts as if he is the anti-Christ and acted on their insanity.

Exaggerated but with a kernel of truth to it.

Of course (keeping the level of exaggeration constant" "all while half the country acts as if he is the Second Coming of Christ and acted on their insanity" is just as true.
 
I finally finished reading the whole thing. The level of detail is impressive, they really searched hard for evidence of conspiracy and coordination (not collusion) with Russians to interfere with the election. There were many interactions with Russians who sought to interfere with the election, but Mueller couldn't make the case. He found shared aims, benefits to Trump's campaign, and cooperation -just nothing showing this "meeting of the minds" in some agreement to interfere. Ultimately Trump is right, there's no evidence of collusion at a level that could show coordination or conspiracy.

There are 20 full pages of blacked-out redaction that deal with Russian interference, but apparently this all refers to "ongoing matter" and cannot be disclosed. Mueller does identify 2 areas of Russian election interference; the Hillary email/DNC/Podesta hacking and leaks, and use of social media to stir things up. He concludes noting the sophistication, extensiveness, depth and effectiveness of the Russian interference, but with all that redaction it is hard to verify any of this. On the hacking I'm dubious because I've seen it reported the DNC material was downloaded at a rate inconsistent with remote hacking, and that telltale indicia in the Gucifer material features 'cartoonish' Russian references that suggest these were intentional "clues" to mislead.

The obstruction still seems rather vague and subjective, Mueller just couldn't satisfactorily show intent and he says so. Evidently he applies a criminal justice standard of proof, but for an impeachment there is not such stricture, I'm sure the Democrats could make a credible case, though it would be full of speculation, suggestion, inuendo, inference and implication. The Democrats know the quality of their claim and they know it just won't get the votes from the Senate, so if they held their impeachment proceeding and went on with all that speculation, they wouldn't look very good.

The Report is dense, there are a lot of participants, incidents taking place at different times, connections between different parties. If there was a conspiracy we could infer awareness of what these participants were doing to others and their coordination, I'm still reviewing timelines and interactions trying to figure this out, but I expect Mueller and his investigators already have done this, and we know his conclusion.

I think this is over, he didn't find that smoking gun.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate actually taking the effort to read the report, even if preconceived conclusions are baked into the response (e.g. "I've seen it reported the DNC material was downloaded at a rate inconsistent with remote hacking", "The obstruction still seems rather vague and subjective"). It is impossible to read this report and not come away with an appreciation for the effort and concern about what happened and the implications for Trump. There's a reason there are still a dozen investigations underway. I cannot, however, reconcile your reading with the conclusions that "this is over, he didn't find that smoking gun." That is entirely inconsistent with the report and is, I think, wishful thinking.

Let me just quote one paragraph to demonstrate:
Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.
There is much more, but that, alone, indicates both that there is a smoking gun, and that it is not over.
 
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Your diploma from "Pollyanna Tech" will be arriving in the mail shortly.

The only nitwits who aren't doing well in this economy are the nitwits screaming at the sky and setting themselves on fire because they don't know how the government works.

Exaggerated but with a kernel of truth to it.

LOL... do you think it is exagerated or lacking a kernel of truth? Make up your mind. :roll:

Also, it's true. The left has been screaming "TRAITOR!!!" for two years and posters her have gleefully posted endless threads about how Mueller is closing in on Trump and jail is imminent.

Womp Womp.

Now MSNBC is so desperate that they or hounding Mueller as his family leaves Easter Mass ... because they are insane.

Of course (keeping the level of exaggeration constant" "all while half the country acts as if he is the Second Coming of Christ and acted on their insanity" is just as true.

When setting out to accuse one person of exaggeration it probably helps if you don't use a counter example that you believe to be true. :lamo

Obama was the Left's Christ Figure, and Trump is their anti-Christ since he has destroyed the Obama legacy.
 
The Russians didn't get a gram of American Uranium.
They got a whack of Uranium.

He charged what the market would bear. Mr. Trump would call that "Smart!".
Sure.

Which was illegal, wasn't it?
Yes for the most part. I'm not sure about the social media thing.

Not in the least. The Russians did NOT want Ms. Clinton elected to the office of President because they knew that they couldn't "play" her anywhere near as effectively as they thought that they could "play" any of the Republican candidates - especially Mr. Trump.
Well that's a very nice opinion but...my opinion is that Hillary's just a bitch. Vlady doesn't like her.

Indeed, and I have never advanced the position that the Russians and either Mr. Trump or "Team Trump" colluded/conspired. (The reason for me NOT doing that is that I do not act on the theory that the collective IQ of the Russian government is somewhat south of 100.)
Agreed.

My point is that the Russians were more than willing to engage in illegal activity in order to "nudge" the results of the 2016 election in the direction that they wanted AND that both Mr. Trump and "Team Trump" were more than willing to accept (indirectly and without "joint planning") the benefits of the Russian's efforts.
And knowing what we do about Hillary and the DNC...do you really think they'd have done otherwise? Comon….:roll:


Since I have never said that there was any "collusion/conspiracy" why would I want to "prove" that there was.

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "conspire/collude" with that someone to rob the banks? Obviously the answer is "No.".

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "do something I ought not have done" with regard to that someone robbing banks? Obviously the answer is "__[fill in the blank]__.".

If I know that someone is robbing banks, and if that someone just happens to do something that results in a great huge whack of (completely unmarked and unidentifiable) money ending up in my garage, and I keep the money for my own benefit, did I "commit a misdemeanour" with regard to that someone robbing banks? Obviously the answer is "__[fill in the blank]__.".

If you're in a war and an unsuspected ally attacks your foe's flank...what do you do?
 
True, but I'll bet that there are going to be days when he wishes that he could still say "I am not a President, I just play one on TV.".

Absolutely there will. In many ways he'll be in over his head.
Gee...sounds like a few leaders we all know of eh?
 
They got a whack of Uranium.

I was going to provide a detailed response to your whole post, but the total disconnect from reality evidenced by your first sentence persuaded me that it really wasn't worth the bother.
 
Absolutely there will. In many ways he'll be in over his head.
Gee...sounds like a few leaders we all know of eh?

I agree that "In many ways he'll be in over his head.", but I rather suspect that he has the smarts to realize that and act accordingly.

Oh yes, and THAT does NOT sound like one or two leaders we all know of.
 
They got a whack of Uranium.


Sure.


Yes for the most part. I'm not sure about the social media thing.


Well that's a very nice opinion but...my opinion is that Hillary's just a bitch. Vlady doesn't like her.


Agreed.


And knowing what we do about Hillary and the DNC...do you really think they'd have done otherwise? Comon….:roll:




If you're in a war and an unsuspected ally attacks your foe's flank...what do you do?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 
And now, John Coltrane's redacted solo from Giant Steps...............

Coltraneredacted.jpg
 
Now you are changing your story. But let's all understand that quarterly growth figures vary widely and thus don't really tell us very much. A more valid measure is annual growth.

What I think that you are ignoring also is that a fellow poster here, Conservative, in his efforts to belittle Obama, called ~2% growth 'mediocre.' Trump claimed that he'd produce 5 and 6% annual GDP growth. Now we see there is no Trump growth miracle. His growth is very similar to Obama's -- even after Trump juiced the economy with a huge tax-cut that we'll have to pay for in later years.

No. My original post stated that under the previous administration that the longest "stretch" of quarters with GDP growth above 2.0% was just two quarters...which is exactly what I once again explained in my last post.

Moreover, what I read in Conservative's previous post was his correct statement that the 2016 annual GDP growth was only 1.6%. This WAS anemic growth under any yardstick. Nor did President Trump "promise" 5-6% GDP growth. He said that he believed that we could bring it to 4% growth and that he said it was possible to see 5-6% growth. Too optimistic, sure. But a promise, no.

Nor are we have to "pay" for the tax-cuts for years afterwards. According to the latest Monthly Treasury Statement, between January 2018 to March 2018, the Federal Government brought in $4.066 Trillion. Yet for the proceeding time period prior to the tax cuts (January 2016 to March 2017), the Federal Government brought in only $3,617.
 
No. My original post stated that under the previous administration that the longest "stretch" of quarters with GDP growth above 2.0% was just two quarters...which is exactly what I once again explained in my last post.

Moreover, what I read in Conservative's previous post was his correct statement that the 2016 annual GDP growth was only 1.6%. This WAS anemic growth under any yardstick. Nor did President Trump "promise" 5-6% GDP growth. He said that he believed that we could bring it to 4% growth and that he said it was possible to see 5-6% growth. Too optimistic, sure. But a promise, no.

Nor are we have to "pay" for the tax-cuts for years afterwards. According to the latest Monthly Treasury Statement, between January 2018 to March 2018, the Federal Government brought in $4.066 Trillion. Yet for the proceeding time period prior to the tax cuts (January 2016 to March 2017), the Federal Government brought in only $3,617.
Focusing on 2016, because it happened to be low, while ignoring all the other years shows your bias.
You can’t cherrypick the periods that enhance your argument. Don’t use data the way a drunk uses a lamppost, for support not enlightenment.
As one can see from the corresponding graph, each of quarters in 2018 were lower than previous years.
fredgraph.png
 
I was going to provide a detailed response to your whole post, but the total disconnect from reality evidenced by your first sentence persuaded me that it really wasn't worth the bother.

Are you trying to say they did not get a whack of uranium?
 
I agree that "In many ways he'll be in over his head.", but I rather suspect that he has the smarts to realize that and act accordingly.

Oh yes, and THAT does NOT sound like one or two leaders we all know of.

Matter of opinion.
Justin is in way over his head.
 
Are you trying to say they did not get a whack of uranium?

Well, since the Russians did NOT get "a whack of AMERICAN Uranium" that is exactly what I am saying.

Even after the sale of (the Canadian company) "Uranium One" to the Russians, "Uranium One" did not obtain a single export certificate to export any Uranium to Russia.

What the Russians wanted, and what the Russians got, was a bunch of VERY valuable mining concessions in Tajikistan (if memory serves) and Tajikistan is NOT a part of the United States of America. The Russians would have been just as happy to purchase the mining concessions WITHOUT buying "Uranium One", but the (Canadian) owners of "Uranium One" would not sell one without the other.

You might find THIS ARTICLE interesting - especially if you actually follow the links to the cited documents.

On the other hand, if you are a dedicated follower of the "If one of ''Their Guys' is even rumoured to have potentially had what might possibly be thought to resemble something that could theoretically be confused with being a crime - that **P*R*O*V*E*S** **G*U*I*L*T**, but if one of 'Our Guys' is indicted, is tried, is convicted, is sentenced, and loses everyone of their appeals - that **P*R*O*V*E*S** **C*O*N*S*P*I*R*A*C*Y**." school of law, you probably won't find it interesting at all since you already know that Mr. Clinton has the "Big D" after her name and that is the only fact that you require.
 
Matter of opinion.
Justin is in way over his head.

HINT - "One or two" does not mean "ONLY __[fill in the blank]__" and could well mean "__[fill in the blank]__ and Justin Trudeau".

On the other hand, I rather suspect that you would agree that

  1. IF the Mueller investigation had happened in Canada;
  2. AND IF Mr. Trudeau had been the focus of that investigation,
  3. AND IF the final report had been the same with respect to Mr. Trudeau as it was with respect to Mr. Trump,
  4. THEN Mr. Trudeau would NOT be "in over his head"

- he'd be "in the unemployment line".
 
Well, since the Russians did NOT get "a whack of AMERICAN Uranium" that is exactly what I am saying.

Even after the sale of (the Canadian company) "Uranium One" to the Russians, "Uranium One" did not obtain a single export certificate to export any Uranium to Russia.

What the Russians wanted, and what the Russians got, was a bunch of VERY valuable mining concessions in Tajikistan (if memory serves) and Tajikistan is NOT a part of the United States of America. The Russians would have been just as happy to purchase the mining concessions WITHOUT buying "Uranium One", but the (Canadian) owners of "Uranium One" would not sell one without the other.

You might find THIS ARTICLE interesting - especially if you actually follow the links to the cited documents.
Which means that the Russians got a whack of uranium.
I understand it can be refined to produce fuel for nuclear weapons.
Not a good strategic move if you believe the Russians are some sort of adversay...is it now.

On the other hand, if you are a dedicated follower of the "If one of ''Their Guys' is even rumoured to have potentially had what might possibly be thought to resemble something that could theoretically be confused with being a crime - that **P*R*O*V*E*S** **G*U*I*L*T**, but if one of 'Our Guys' is indicted, is tried, is convicted, is sentenced, and loses everyone of their appeals - that **P*R*O*V*E*S** **C*O*N*S*P*I*R*A*C*Y**." school of law, you probably won't find it interesting at all since you already know that Mr. Clinton has the "Big D" after her name and that is the only fact that you require.
In our society one is innocent until proven guilty.
I sort of subscribe to that.
 
HINT - "One or two" does not mean "ONLY __[fill in the blank]__" and could well mean "__[fill in the blank]__ and Justin Trudeau".

On the other hand, I rather suspect that you would agree that

  1. IF the Mueller investigation had happened in Canada;
  2. AND IF Mr. Trudeau had been the focus of that investigation,
  3. AND IF the final report had been the same with respect to Mr. Trudeau as it was with respect to Mr. Trump,
  4. THEN Mr. Trudeau would NOT be "in over his head"

- he'd be "in the unemployment line".

Yes. After he's defeated at the polls. That's how democracy works.
Used to be that the losers of such elections understood that.
They don't seem to anymore.
 
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