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Special counsel Robert Mueller's highly anticipated report handed off to Department of Justice

Conservative said:
Have you ever heard of a Presidential candidate winning a state by 4 million votes?? That is what she won California by and that gave her the popular vote. You actually want the state of California to elect the President of the United States.
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No. The president represents all Americans in all states. Which state we live in should not matter. One person, one vote. The reasoning behind the founders' creation of the electoral college no longer exists.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Supposition and bull****, as usual.
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You're missing a lot here if not all of it. Or the Fanboys simply whistle as you hop, skip and jump along the Trump yellow brick road. That's the yellow brick road that you know to be a conscious denial of what Trump and the Fanboys have in mind firmly. Yet every now and then a Fanboy breaks the discipline of radio silence to blurt it out of mind as we see in the scrolling.

Less shameless is the armband right saying stridently to line up the machine guns at the southern border. This massacre mentality toward unarmed civilians is the wet dream of the Fanboys, long recurring. It is why Pentagon is opposed to the great risk posed by having troops deployed to the border, i.e., their immediate presence enables a ready catastrophe executed by Trump & Fanboys -- or a confrontation between Potus/CinC and Pentagon chiefs and field commanders in opposition to him and the Fanboys).

I am meanwhile posting lessons from history that are clear and a matter of record. In foreign policy and national defense and security policy you guys reside in the historical Munich. Domestically every rally Trump goes to is his Nuremburg fashioned road show and staging ground that Trump delivers to us in the American way, setting, circumstance, time. Still however I have referred consistently to Trumpolini. Because while there is a crossover of the two European classic fascists, Trump in the contemporary USA of the 21st century is much more el Duce who was more destructive of his own country than to the world.

It is also fact that flash in the pan posts that try to deny and dismiss cannot compete against these analyses and where they take us naturally in Trumpworld. Which is a domestic chaos and destruction that extends to and negates the long established global peace and order relatively speaking.
 
Conservative said:
22 months of investigation and no evidence but all of a sudden Schiff has the smoking gun? Doesn't sound a bit suspicious does it?
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What does this exchange have to do with evidence? Someone accused Schiff of being a constant liar. I asked for proof and, as usual from knee-jerk reactionary righties who hate for no real reason, I got nothing. And here you are, butting in with more nothing.

But okay, I'll play along. 22 months and how many indictments? How many plea deals? How much prison time assigned? How many cases still being pursued in other federal and state venues? That doesn't sound like "no evidence" to me, and based on the mountains of it that we have seen over the last few years, it is mind-boggling that Trump and his sycophants are claiming "total exoneration." We haven't even seen a single full sentence from Mueller's report yet. Not enough evidence to indict does not mean zero evidence, it just means that Mueller did not believe he had enough for a conviction. You do understand the difference, right? You are aware that sometimes criminals are successful, right?
 
Conservative said:
You really ought to take a civics class to learn the power of the President as your posts are embarrassing. Trump wanting revenge is human nature, what he can do about it is controlled by civics. It is quite stunning how hate has driven people into irrational behavior and seen in so many anti Trump posts.

I am still waiting for information as to how anything Trump has done while in the WH has hurt you, your family, or the country. Actual results don't support your point of view as you spend way too much time here buying what others you want to believe tell you
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Ah yes, it's your stock post.

We over here need to take a civics class. That would be your high school civics class which you never got beyond or higher than. Nor have you had national and international level experience in government.

The personalization of policy to the family of each poster who is critical of Trump. You demand posters bleed out sob stories of family, hard luck stories of spouse and offspring and the like which few if any people do (outside of perhaps experiences at VA which vary anyway most of 'em being generally good to excellent). Everyone has their challenges yet you want woe which if it may exists for some does not have its place here.

The accusation that your opponents haven't any mind of their own, which is stock and standard fare for Republicans / Conservatives. Mindless liberals who are rote drone zombies if not ghouls gathered in their collectives etc etc etc.

The stock post is to lecture and scold and it tries miserably to demean which is a sad approach given there are so few people down there below you to try to belittle.
 
Idiometer said:
No. The president represents all Americans in all states. Which state we live in should not matter. One person, one vote. The reasoning behind the founders' creation of the electoral college no longer exists.
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With concentrations of liberals in major cities across the nation, I would say that the EC is needed now more than ever...
 
Idiometer said:
No. The president represents all Americans in all states. Which state we live in should not matter. One person, one vote. The reasoning behind the founders' creation of the electoral college no longer exists.
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Our founders understood that power corrupts and that the power belongs in the states not major population centers or in a strong central gov't. I asked you to name for any other state that gave a presidential candidate a four million vote win and why would anyone want California alone to elect our President. There is a reason for the electoral college, figure it out and get back to us?
 
Idiometer said:
What does this exchange have to do with evidence? Someone accused Schiff of being a constant liar. I asked for proof and, as usual from knee-jerk reactionary righties who hate for no real reason, I got nothing. And here you are, butting in with more nothing.

But okay, I'll play along. 22 months and how many indictments? How many plea deals? How much prison time assigned? How many cases still being pursued in other federal and state venues? That doesn't sound like "no evidence" to me, and based on the mountains of it that we have seen over the last few years, it is mind-boggling that Trump and his sycophants are claiming "total exoneration." We haven't even seen a single full sentence from Mueller's report yet. Not enough evidence to indict does not mean zero evidence, it just means that Mueller did not believe he had enough for a conviction. You do understand the difference, right? You are aware that sometimes criminals are successful, right?
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For conspiring with Russia to throw the 2016 elections to Trump? That would be 0....
 
j-mac said:
:roll: Oh brother....Some progressive Republican dumb ass having a melt down for the Guardian, trying desperately to paint the picture that only those who oppose the President are on the side of freedom and the Constitution is truly sick...It is distorted....But, that's what progressives do, distort.
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Lee Atwater comes most immediately to mind. He considered the Watergate plumbers and their break in of the Democratic party headquarters to be keystone cops assigned to intelligence gathering and who took a wrong turn.
 
Tangmo said:
Ah yes, it's your stock post.

We over here need to take a civics class. That would be your high school civics class which you never got beyond or higher than. Nor have you had national and international level experience in government.

The personalization of policy to the family of each poster who is critical of Trump. You demand posters bleed out sob stories of family, hard luck stories of spouse and offspring and the like which few if any people do (outside of perhaps experiences at VA which vary anyway most of 'em being generally good to excellent). Everyone has their challenges yet you want woe which if it may exists for some does not have its place here.

The accusation that your opponents haven't any mind of their own, which is stock and standard fare for Republicans / Conservatives. Mindless liberals who are rote drone zombies if not ghouls gathered in their collectives etc etc etc.

The stock post is to lecture and scold and it tries miserably to demean which is a sad approach given there are so few people down there below you to try to belittle.
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Nice novel, now you made a claim that Trump personally hurt you or your family, prove it? There are a lot of good people indoctrinated by the left including me at one time, I outgrew and as will most moving forward when they realize that bureaucrats in D.C. will never stop spending and that when evidence isn't provided to support a left wing claim it will be created.

I don't belittle you but ask specific questions that you never answer.
 
Tangmo said:
Lee Atwater comes most immediately to mind. He considered the Watergate plumbers and their break in of the Democratic party headquarters to be keystone cops assigned to intelligence gathering and who took a wrong turn.
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:lol: Yeah right....:roll:
 
Conservative said:
Today's Democratic Party and people like you have done more harm to this country than anything Trump personally can do. Trump is allowed freedom of speech and legal recourse just like you are and is innocent until proven guilty. The 24/7 non stop attacks on him since day one in office are proof of how radicals have gone crazy and how you and they ignore civics.

Amazing how 22 months of investigation done with total support of Trump doesn't find any evidence of collusion or obstruction but that isn't good enough for you. Democrats and socialists cannot lose gracefully as rhetoric always trumps actual results and when you cannot find the evidence you make it up
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You fail to refute my post. That's because you can't. All you know is your high school civics which is most of what the vast majority of Republicans / Conservatives know. Without youse guys high school civics you'd have nothing to go by. You'd do better with nothing than to keep relying on your "How A Bill Becomes Law" high school civics. The Right's civics books seem to have taught rejection of the rule of law, i.e., the Constitution, checks and balances, coequal branches of government, balance of powers, independent judiciary, freedom of press and media and so on. You guys like free speech tho because it means you have it but only until you can kill it.


The second paragraph must be predicated on your having read the Mueller Report. Kindly share thx. Keep your civics book however. In fact you might consider recycling the yellowed paper in it.
 
Conservative said:
Nice novel, now you made a claim that Trump personally hurt you or your family, prove it? There are a lot of good people indoctrinated by the left including me at one time, I outgrew and as will most moving forward when they realize that bureaucrats in D.C. will never stop spending and that when evidence isn't provided to support a left wing claim it will be created.

I don't belittle you but ask specific questions that you never answer.
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Correct, you can't. Incorrect, I do.

Given the national emergency of armband rightists getting their guy in the WH I turned over the proverbial new leaf. Just recently in fact.

That is, I addressed family on a societal level and in general terms. I did it just moments ago, in my posts #1141 and #1154. You were so busy repeating your endless demands for accounts of family woe by any and all liberals you seem to have missed my discussion of your stock 'n trade predictable posts. I can understand your missing 'em given I am Progressive. That I often ally with liberals is neither here nor there for your purposes.

I reiterate that here is not the place for any single poster who may have some family woes. Indeed you might do better to drop your unending and intrusive attempts to include specifics about family and instead leave posters' families out of the discussions. My family is my business thx anyway. It's Trump's family that is fair game among certain others only. Dragging posters families into your politics can go places that could get unpleasant and be distasteful.
 
j-mac said:
With concentrations of liberals in major cities across the nation, I would say that the EC is needed now more than ever...
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Why? That's advocating for votes in less populated states to count higher than those in more populated states. Please explain your logic for that.
 
Idiometer said:
Why? That's advocating for votes in less populated states to count higher than those in more populated states. Please explain your logic for that.
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And if you have it your way less populated states really have no say against liberal big cities...
 
Conservative said:
Our founders understood that power corrupts and that the power belongs in the states not major population centers or in a strong central gov't. I asked you to name for any other state that gave a presidential candidate a four million vote win and why would anyone want California alone to elect our President. There is a reason for the electoral college, figure it out and get back to us?
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Allocation of electoral delegates is uneven and heavily favors less populated states. For example, California has nearly 40 million residents, and 55 EC votes. That's one EC vote for every 2,200,000 or so people. Alaska has about 740,000 residents and 3 EC votes. That's 1 EC vote per 246,000 or so people. That right there is a difference of nearly 2 million residents per EC vote.

Please explain how that's fair.
 
j-mac said:
For conspiring with Russia to throw the 2016 elections to Trump? That would be 0....
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Not zero, just not solid enough to pursue criminal charges. Do you seriously not get that?

Personally, I never bought the idea that Trump personally conspired with Putin to win the presidency, but with more than 100 contacts between his people and known Russian operatives, and the endless LYING they continue to do on that specific issue (contact with Russians), I am convinced that there is something untoward about the Trump campaign and so much contact with a foreign adversary during an election process. IMO, Trump himself is too stupid to understand the ramifications of such contacts and his own people probably kept him in the dark because 1) deniability and 2) he can't keep his little cake hole shut, ever. Plus, no way on earth is Trump EVER going to admit that he did not really win that election fair and square on his own merit.

I think the same about the obstruction ... when he spoke on television to Lester Holt, I don't think he had the least idea of the consequences of his off the cuff remarks about firing Comey.

I'm still of a mind to wait for Mueller's report. The FULL report, not AG Barr's little summary. I want to see the actual work products from Mueller and his team, all of it that isn't redacted due to national security or grand jury confidentiality. Until we see all of it, your claim of zero evidence is just too laughable.
 
Conservative said:
Our founders understood that power corrupts and that the power belongs in the states not major population centers
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An just who are the states if not the people living in them and who's interest will the states represent if not their residents?

why would anyone want California alone to elect our President.
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Can you explain how in your world that would be possible?
 
Idiometer said:
Not zero, just not solid enough to pursue criminal charges. Do you seriously not get that?
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Oh, I am sorry, no criminal charges you say? Oh....Well, then no crime....That's how it is in this country...

Personally, I never bought the idea that Trump personally conspired with Putin to win the presidency, but with more than 100 contacts between his people and known Russian operatives, and the endless LYING they continue to do on that specific issue (contact with Russians), I am convinced that there is something untoward about the Trump campaign and so much contact with a foreign adversary during an election process.
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Unfortunately for you, what you believe means nothing....The fact is that NO ONE was charged for 'colluding', or conspiring with Russia to throw the 2016 election to Trump..NO ONE.

IMO, Trump himself is too stupid to understand the ramifications of such contacts and his own people probably kept him in the dark because 1) deniability and 2) he can't keep his little cake hole shut, ever.
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That would have merit if even ONE person surrounding Trump were indicted, or convicted for Conspiracy to work with Russia in the election...Fact is no one was....So, although I agree that Trump has a tendency to step on his dick alot, there was never anything here to nail him, or others around him on....

Plus, no way on earth is Trump EVER going to admit that he did not really win that election fair and square on his own merit.
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He did win it fair and square....And that is something you will never accept.

I think the same about the obstruction ... when he spoke on television to Lester Holt, I don't think he had the least idea of the consequences of his off the cuff remarks about firing Comey.
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In that interview, nothing was ever admitted to other than the media spinning it for you...If you are still clinging to that, then there is little hope that you will ever accept facts as reality.

I'm still of a mind to wait for Mueller's report. The FULL report, not AG Barr's little summary. I want to see the actual work products from Mueller and his team, all of it that isn't redacted due to national security or grand jury confidentiality. Until we see all of it, your claim of zero evidence is just too laughable.
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You will be waiting a long, long, long time because you are not entitled to that....Plus there are actual statutes preventing that from being made public, so my suggestion is that you start a thread in the CT section, next to the Kennedy assassination, and the moon landing....
 
j-mac said:
Oh, I am sorry, no criminal charges you say? Oh....Well, then no crime....That's how it is in this country...
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Unless, of course, the person accused is from the other political party.

When that happens "alleged potential impropriety without evidence" = "**G*U*I*L*T*Y**".
 
Tangmo said:
You fail to refute my post. That's because you can't. All you know is your high school civics which is most of what the vast majority of Republicans / Conservatives know. Without youse guys high school civics you'd have nothing to go by. You'd do better with nothing than to keep relying on your "How A Bill Becomes Law" high school civics. The Right's civics books seem to have taught rejection of the rule of law, i.e., the Constitution, checks and balances, coequal branches of government, balance of powers, independent judiciary, freedom of press and media and so on. You guys like free speech tho because it means you have it but only until you can kill it.


The second paragraph must be predicated on your having read the Mueller Report. Kindly share thx. Keep your civics book however. In fact you might consider recycling the yellowed paper in it.
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So Bart is lying, have you heard Mueller rebuke him?

I have not only refuted your post but continue to show you to be a typical leftist, radical and never admitting when wrong. How has Trump hurt you, your family or the country?

What is your excuse going to be when the entire report confirms no evidence of collusion and no obstruction? 22 months so you need more time to manufacture proof?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Tangmo said:
Correct, you can't. Incorrect, I do.

Given the national emergency of armband rightists getting their guy in the WH I turned over the proverbial new leaf. Just recently in fact.

That is, I addressed family on a societal level and in general terms. I did it just moments ago, in my posts #1141 and #1154. You were so busy repeating your endless demands for accounts of family woe by any and all liberals you seem to have missed my discussion of your stock 'n trade predictable posts. I can understand your missing 'em given I am Progressive. That I often ally with liberals is neither here nor there for your purposes.

I reiterate that here is not the place for any single poster who may have some family woes. Indeed you might do better to drop your unending and intrusive attempts to include specifics about family and instead leave posters' families out of the discussions. My family is my business thx anyway. It's Trump's family that is fair game among certain others only. Dragging posters families into your politics can go places that could get unpleasant and be distasteful.
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You made the claim now won't prove it, that makes you a liar

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Idiometer said:
Allocation of electoral delegates is uneven and heavily favors less populated states. For example, California has nearly 40 million residents, and 55 EC votes. That's one EC vote for every 2,200,000 or so people. Alaska has about 740,000 residents and 3 EC votes. That's 1 EC vote per 246,000 or so people. That right there is a difference of nearly 2 million residents per EC vote.

Please explain how that's fair.
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So 3 electoral college votes supports your claim? California has more than 18 times the power over those 3 electoral votes

Even worse Hillary garnered those votes from basically LA, SF, and San Diego alone. Aside from those three cities California is a red state

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Tangmo said:
You're missing a lot here if not all of it. Or the Fanboys simply whistle as you hop, skip and jump along the Trump yellow brick road. That's the yellow brick road that you know to be a conscious denial of what Trump and the Fanboys have in mind firmly. Yet every now and then a Fanboy breaks the discipline of radio silence to blurt it out of mind as we see in the scrolling.

Less shameless is the armband right saying stridently to line up the machine guns at the southern border. This massacre mentality toward unarmed civilians is the wet dream of the Fanboys, long recurring. It is why Pentagon is opposed to the great risk posed by having troops deployed to the border, i.e., their immediate presence enables a ready catastrophe executed by Trump & Fanboys -- or a confrontation between Potus/CinC and Pentagon chiefs and field commanders in opposition to him and the Fanboys).

I am meanwhile posting lessons from history that are clear and a matter of record. In foreign policy and national defense and security policy you guys reside in the historical Munich. Domestically every rally Trump goes to is his Nuremburg fashioned road show and staging ground that Trump delivers to us in the American way, setting, circumstance, time. Still however I have referred consistently to Trumpolini. Because while there is a crossover of the two European classic fascists, Trump in the contemporary USA of the 21st century is much more el Duce who was more destructive of his own country than to the world.

It is also fact that flash in the pan posts that try to deny and dismiss cannot compete against these analyses and where they take us naturally in Trumpworld. Which is a domestic chaos and destruction that extends to and negates the long established global peace and order relatively speaking.
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You talk so much and really say very little.
 
Tangmo said:
My post said inquiring minds want to know. That's because inquiring minds have been doing two basic and vital things the past three years. Paying attention generally and comprehensively, and analyzing Trump and His Fanboys. It's a continuum of some decades and here is the latest continuation of it by none other than the Potus Himself as he was delivered to us....


Rich Galen, a Republican strategist, told the Guardian: “Even when Trump thought he was in trouble, he was yelling for Hillary Clinton to be locked up and his supporters cheered and acted like idiots. When he says, ‘No collusion!’ he’ll get great cheers and he’ll put on his Mussolini face.”

On Sunday, Trump led an assault against “an illegal takedown that failed” and suggested a look at “the other side”. He said: “It’s a shame that our country has had to go through this. To be honest, it’s a shame that your president has had to go through this.”

“There are a lot of people out there that have done some very evil things, very bad things, I would say treasonous things against our country and hopefully people that have done such harm to our country … those people will certainly be looked at.”

He added: But what they did – it was a false narrative, it was a terrible thing. I can tell you that. I say it very strongly. Very few people I know could have handled it. We can never ever let this happen to another president again.”

Among Trump’s prominent allies, Sean Hannity, a Fox News host and close confidant, took on the role of attack dog. “Starting Monday we will hold every deep state official who abused power accountable,” he tweeted. “We will hold every fake news media liar member accountable. We will hold every liar in Congress accountable.”

Trump set to weaponize Mueller report in war on Democrats and media | US news | The Guardian


I suspect very strongly Trump will go after individuals. His intention is to deplete the institutions of individuals, then the institutions of the Constitution would be dismantled. Trump has no positive programs to develop the country. His only purpose is to dismantle it. Putin-Trump & Fanboys. Trumpolini actually and no doubt.
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When in doubt double down on the lies and smears. You dismantle the constitution when you use the government as a political weapon. Trump didn't do that, a Democratic administration did.
 
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