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'Bugger off,' NZ ex-police minister tells National Rifle Association

Free speech is not a license to say stupid ****.

Quite right.

"Free Speech" is a RIGHT to say "stupid ****" and "Freedom" is a RIGHT to tell those that say that "stupid ****" that it IS "stupid ****".
 
There is a difference between the NRA involving itself in a campaign that decries the violation of New Zealander's 2nd Amendment Rights and in one that decries the violation of American's 2nd Amendment rights.

Do you know what it is?

If you do, maybe you should tell the NRA what that difference is.
A gun rights organization is offering support to gun owners in NEw Zealand based on THEIR rights...not American rights. Their involvement (which you apparently despise) is no different than the idiot leftists from other countries that regularly involve themselves in OUR issues.
 
A gun rights organization is offering support to gun owners in NEw Zealand based on THEIR rights...not American rights. Their involvement (which you apparently despise) is no different than the idiot leftists from other countries that regularly involve themselves in OUR issues.

Which, of course, offers a perfect explanation of why the people are complaining that the actions of the New Zealand government are "in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights", isn't it?
 
Which, of course, offers a perfect explanation of why the people are complaining that the actions of the New Zealand government are "in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights", isn't it?
Cant speak to any of those folks. My comments when I saw the idiot leftists immediately do what idiot leftist ALWAYS do...jump to the opportunity to ban guns...to simply say "sucks to be a Kiwi". Not my country, not my ****ing problem. Same way I feel about any idiot from outside the US that wants to get involved with or comment on our affairs. As far as I am concerned, those pathetic twats have already sacrificed their own rights, so why the **** do they think they have any relevance ANYWHERE...let alone here?
 
A gun rights organization is offering support to gun owners in NEw Zealand based on THEIR rights...not American rights. Their involvement (which you apparently despise) is no different than the idiot leftists from other countries that regularly involve themselves in OUR issues.

No, that is entirely wrong. There are no gun rights in nz to start with.
 
No, that is entirely wrong. There are no gun rights in nz to start with.
That cant be true if they are CHANGING laws...but I will freely admit...I dont know nor do I care about what those laws are or were.

I'm not from New Zealand.
 
Coming from someone who relies on conspiracy theories. How laughable.

Empty accusations with zero evidence. You don't even make any reference to what you falsely claim.

These ARE the kinds of people who will first be used to make soylent green.
 
Originally Posted by soylentgreen
No, that is entirely wrong. There are no gun rights in nz to start with.


That cant be true if they are CHANGING laws...


He makes up the wildest stories always without any evidence.
 
Originally Posted by soylentgreen
No, that is entirely wrong. There are no gun rights in nz to start with.





He makes up the wildest stories always without any evidence.
It could just be a different interpretation of the word 'rights. In the US we have the Constitution which specifically enumerates the RIGHTS of the US citizens and limits the powers of government. I dont believe the New Zealand Constitution does that. In THAT sense he would be correct, because 'rights' are something the government cant just change on a whim. But there are LAWS and those laws DO somewhat protect their citizens...until their government decides to **** on them. And if their citizens are willing to take it...then so be it.
 
Cant speak to any of those folks. My comments when I saw the idiot leftists immediately do what idiot leftist ALWAYS do...jump to the opportunity to ban guns...to simply say "sucks to be a Kiwi".

My position on the "PRO-Gun Nuts" position of "Ban all guns." is probably not too nuanced for you to understand. It is "That won't work, it's stupid, it won't work, it's unaffordable, it won't work, and it is a stupid, unaffordable 'plan' that simply won't work."

I hope that I've not confused you.

Not my country, not my ****ing problem.

Somethings ARE purely domestic and that attitude is quite correct with respect to them.

Same way I feel about any idiot from outside the US that wants to get involved with or comment on our affairs.

I presume that you feel the same way about any idiot from INSIDE the US who wants to do the same.

As far as I am concerned, those pathetic twats have already sacrificed their own rights, so why the **** do they think they have any relevance ANYWHERE...let alone here?

Possibly because they actually know what they are talking about rather than simply spouting the latest version of the currently operative, government approved, officially endorsed, truth-of-the-day, myth?
 
Same way I feel about any idiot from outside the US that wants to get involved with or comment on our affairs.

With no rancor whatsoever, that is truly ludicrous. What you are saying is that Americans who perpetually involve themselves in other countries' affairs are also idiots. And often times they are.

Why don't you discuss the US involvement in other countries, the things that are war crimes, the ultimate war crime, the illegal invasions of sovereign nations - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Korea, ... . That list numbers in the hundreds.

Then there is the unrelenting, centuries long USA terrorism, then the USA genocide against Native Americans. Didn't the USA get deeply involved in the Holocaust investigations?

The USA genocide against Native Americans is another Holocaust.

So of course people from other countries HAVE TO get involved in these transgressions against international law. Which you should also nota bene, were largely established by the USA at Nuremberg by Justice Robert Jackson. Do you consider that he too is an idiot?
 
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It could just be a different interpretation of the word 'rights. In the US we have the Constitution which specifically enumerates the RIGHTS of the US citizens and limits the powers of government.

All those have long been subject to change thru judicial review, outright amending both the C and the amendments to the C. #2 is no different. It can be changed.
 
It could just be a different interpretation of the word 'rights. In the US we have the Constitution which specifically enumerates the RIGHTS of the US citizens and limits the powers of government. I dont believe the New Zealand Constitution does that. In THAT sense he would be correct, because 'rights' are something the government cant just change on a whim. But there are LAWS and those laws DO somewhat protect their citizens...until their government decides to **** on them. And if their citizens are willing to take it...then so be it.

No, SG just makes up the wildest stories/wildest accusations always without any evidence.
 
My position on the "PRO-Gun Nuts" position of "Ban all guns." is probably not too nuanced for you to understand. It is "That won't work, it's stupid, it won't work, it's unaffordable, it won't work, and it is a stupid, unaffordable 'plan' that simply won't work."

I hope that I've not confused you.



Somethings ARE purely domestic and that attitude is quite correct with respect to them.



I presume that you feel the same way about any idiot from INSIDE the US who wants to do the same.



Possibly because they actually know what they are talking about rather than simply spouting the latest version of the currently operative, government approved, officially endorsed, truth-of-the-day, myth?
Dood...you are missing the key point here...

I dont give a **** about you or your opinion. If I need your opinion about maple syrup or hockey...I'll ask. Otherwise...what makes you think you or anyone north of our border matters to me?

As to your last opinion about people 'kn owing what they are talking about'...when idiot leftists and kneeling subjects chime in on our affairs, all they 'know about' are how to be good little pets and frankly, that doesnt hold much value. When the kneeling subjects in the UK sacrificed their gun rights over the Dunblane incident there had been ONE incidence of mass shootings in the 20 years prior. SINCE they sacrificed their gun rights there has been...ONE. Meanwhile, their country has fallen to ****, in their capital city acid attacks arent uncommon, fatal stabbings are at epidemic levels, SHOOTINGS are increasing, their idiot government is now looking at banning KNIVES FFS, and their people are being thrown in prison for words that others might find 'offensive'. How the mighty have fallen.

So sorry...there isnt **** all that they can offer.

In Australia, there have been more mass killings in the 22 years SINCE the Port Arthur Massacre than the 25 years PRIOR. Meanwhile, their suicide rate outpaces ours, demonstrating clearly that people that think gun bans will reduce suicide rates are ****ing idiots. They too have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

So...I will GLADLY not involve myself in their affairs. Not my zoo...not my monkeys But I dont much give a **** about THEIR opinions where our issues are concerned. Im sure you can understand that.
 
With no rancor whatsoever, that is truly ludicrous. What you are saying is that Americans who perpetually involve themselves in other countries' affairs are also idiots. And often times they are.

But why don't you discuss the US involvement in other countries, the things that are war crimes, the ultimate war crime, the illegal invasions of sovereign nations - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Korea, ... . That list numbers in the hundreds.

Then there is the unrelenting, centuries long USA terrorism, then the USA genocide against Native Americans. Didn't the USA get deeply involved in the Holocaust investigations?

The USA genocide against Native Americans is another Holocaust.

So of course people from other countries HAVE TO get involved in these transgressions against international law. Which you should also nota bene, were largely established by the USA at Nuremberg by Justice Robert Jackson. Do you consider that he too is an idiot?
I think you miss the point. Government entities engage because no one lives in a bubble. Rights organizations engage because of similar causes. People? Your opinion is only relevant about as far as your voice can travel.
 
I think you miss the point. Government entities engage because no one lives in a bubble. Rights organizations engage because of similar causes. People? Your opinion is only relevant about as far as your voice can travel.

At least you have shown enough common sense that people really ought to be involved and speaking out on the myriad US illegal invasions, again, the equivalents of what WWII war criminals were hung for.

Can anyone suggest a logical reason that every US prez since WWII also shouldn't be hung, for they are war criminals all, as defined by Robert Jackson/Nuremberg, Tokyo War Crimes Trials?

I can suggest one good reason, those that are dead and buried need not be dug up and hung. The rest, those alive, of course, because the USA believes strongly in following the rule of law, in following the law they largely established in the WWII war crimes trials.

[bolded and enlarged in the following is mine]

"Unfortunately, the nature of these crimes is such that both prosecution and judgment must be by victor nations over vanquished foes. The worldwide scope of the aggressions carried out by these men has left but few real neutrals. Either the victors must judge the vanquished or we must leave the defeated to judge themselves. After the first World War, we learned the futility of the latter course. The former high station of these defendants, the notoriety of their acts, and the adaptability of their conduct to provoke retaliation make it hard to distinguish between the demand for a just and measured retribution, and the unthinking cry for vengeance which arises from the anguish of war. It is our task, so far as humanly possible, to, draw the line between the two. We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants today is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well. We must summon such detachment and intellectual integrity to our task that this Trial will commend itself to posterity as fulfilling humanity's aspirations to do justice." -- USSC Justice Robert H. Jackson
 
At least you have shown enough common sense that people really ought to be involved and speaking out on the myriad US illegal invasions, again, the equivalents of what WWII war criminals were hung for.

Can anyone suggest a logical reason that every US prez since WWII also shouldn't be hung, for they are war criminals all, as defined by Robert Jackson/Nuremberg, Tokyo War Crimes Trials?

I can suggest one good reason, those that are dead and buried need not be dug up and hung. The rest, those alive, of course, because the USA believes strongly in following the rule of law, in following the law they largely established in the WWII war crimes trials.

[bolded and enlarged in the following is mine]

"Unfortunately, the nature of these crimes is such that both prosecution and judgment must be by victor nations over vanquished foes. The worldwide scope of the aggressions carried out by these men has left but few real neutrals. Either the victors must judge the vanquished or we must leave the defeated to judge themselves. After the first World War, we learned the futility of the latter course. The former high station of these defendants, the notoriety of their acts, and the adaptability of their conduct to provoke retaliation make it hard to distinguish between the demand for a just and measured retribution, and the unthinking cry for vengeance which arises from the anguish of war. It is our task, so far as humanly possible, to, draw the line between the two. We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants today is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well. We must summon such detachment and intellectual integrity to our task that this Trial will commend itself to posterity as fulfilling humanity's aspirations to do justice." -- USSC Justice Robert H. Jackson
Heres reality. 'people' are responsible for themselves, their families, and their communities. They should vote. They should make their voice heard to their representatives, even if they didnt vote for them. They should be responsible citizens. Beyond that....

lifes too ****in short and people have their own boulders to carry.
 
Heres reality. 'people' are responsible for themselves, their families, and their communities. They should vote. They should make their voice heard to their representatives, even if they didnt vote for them. They should be responsible citizens. Beyond that....

lifes too ****in short and people have their own boulders to carry.

All of a sudden out comes the excuses, Vance. Look at the posts here on this site, most are about others, I suspect largely Americans sticking their noses in other peoples/countries' affairs, people talking about the US bombing the hell out of others lands, killing their children, wives, husbands, relatives, ... . And we aren't talking theoretical here either.

Germans were roundly condemned, still are today by hypocritical Americans/other westerners who have been just as bad as the Germans or the [stick in latest US hate on ethnic group/country].

People of the Middle East are called terrorists/"terroist group" when they too are no different than those around the time of the American revolution, including the founding terrorists.
 
All of a sudden out comes the excuses, Vance. Look at the posts here on this site, most are about others, I suspect largely Americans sticking their noses in other peoples/countries' affairs, people talking about the US bombing the hell out of others lands, killing their children, wives, husbands, relatives, ... . And we aren't talking theoretical here either.

Germans were roundly condemned, still are today by hypocritical Americans/other westerners who have been just as bad as the Germans or the [stick in latest US hate on ethnic group/country].

People of the Middle East are called terrorists/"terroist group" when they too are no different than those around the time of the American revolution, including the founding terrorists.
Where do you find an 'excuse' in that comment? I am stating the limit of the INDIVIDUALS realm of influence.

And no...'people of the middle east' are not called terrorists. People that kill innocent men, women, and children in the great and glorious name of Allah are called terrorists.
 
All those have long been subject to change thru judicial review, outright amending both the C and the amendments to the C. #2 is no different. It can be changed.
Good luck. The founding fathers deliberately made it difficult so that it couldnt be changed merely by the winds of political fortune.
 
Where do you find an 'excuse' in that comment? I am stating the limit of the INDIVIDUALS realm of influence.

Please be honest, Vance. Virtually every thread is folks whining about some country besides the USA.

And no...'people of the middle east' are not called terrorists. People that kill innocent men, women, and children in the great and glorious name of Allah are called terrorists.

What of the people that kill innocent men, women, and children in the great and glorious name of the USA, all based totally on USA lies about the countries/the Muslims they were calling terrorists?
 
Good luck. The founding fathers deliberately made it difficult so that it couldnt be changed merely by the winds of political fortune.

Sounds like an elementary school civics lesson. I am well aware of all this. That doesn't address my point that there is nothing in the constitution that can't be changed.
 
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