Trump signs executive order to promote free speech on college campuses

Sweden said:

Sometimes I read one of your posts and think 'this is as low at it can get' and then you go right ahead and show me that I was mistaken.

Click to expand...

Stay tuned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What if...? said:

But like the O'Keefe videos, people won't see the hundred people who were adults. What they'll see is the guy who DID get triggered and the "Oh woe is me bit" will start. (If it isn't someobody who came in the same car as the "victim")

Click to expand...

Isn't the biased 'news' (political propaganda) media landscape just wonderful?
'If it bleeds, it leads'. :shrug:

Not sure if there's a way to address their poor behaviors, or to motivate them to drop those behaviors.

noonereal said:

They don't go to colleges.

Try to understand. If AOC were to plan a speaking engagement in Alabama, all the toothless would be out in protest. (but there are no such venues)

Universities are islands of education so they protest hate speech. It's common sense.

Universities simply don't have the great unwashed as part of the student body or faculty.

The unwashed do not have institutions for folks to speak at.

BTW, the left does not do hate speech as does the right. Another important distinction.


As to ANTIFA, they are 30 nut cases in Oregon. They have nothing to do with this.

Click to expand...

OMG...and you believe this crap ur a shovelin' here?

eohrnberger said:

Isn't the biased 'news' (political propaganda) media landscape just wonderful?
'If it bleeds, it leads'. :shrug:

Not sure if there's a way to address their poor behaviors, or to motivate them to drop those behaviors.

Click to expand...

They're never going to talk about where these things come from or how its done.

All their advertisers use the same tools/methods. Same for politicians whose campaigns and speeches are designed this way.

noonereal said:

LOL, one was not allowed?

Who was this speaker?

I'd love to hear all about it.

So we need a presidential order so this person can speak?

You guys are being played for fools.

Click to expand...

Better than being one I suppose.

Xelor said:

Well, then, if you don't enroll there, attend their sporting and other events, donate to them, etc., they are not likely to receive your money. That's particularly so for private institutions. Regarding public ones, I refer you to post 41 and its linked-to content.

Click to expand...

So what if it's redundant, if it is. What's the problem with removing federal funding to institutions that practice discrimination of speech?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

AGENT J said:

Who said it did? LMAO

anyway back to my actual questions

WHat are all the examples of a university factually violating free speech laws?
is this happening so often that an EO is needed?
if it is factually happening wheres all the won court cases against the people doing so?

and if it is factually happening i want action!

Click to expand...

You got action. Trump heard your concern and responded with his EO.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

trouble13 said:

So what if it's redundant, if it is. What's the problem with removing federal funding to institutions that practice discrimination of speech?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

This is so ridiculous.

How does one define this?

Just who has EVER been a victim of this proposed offense?

This is so ****in asinine.

trouble13 said:

So what if it's redundant, if it is. What's the problem with removing federal funding to institutions that practice discrimination of speech?

Click to expand...

From one of the several other threads on substantively the same topic:



ETA:
Before bothering to respond to the above, if you be so inclined, please take the time to understand the following:
-- The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
-- The Professor is In
-- So You Want to Work at a Teaching College

Oborosen said:

Okay, so do you mind showing us where republicans are supporting the wholesale slaughter of black & brown people in 3rd world countries?

Click to expand...

The Iraq War killed a minimum of 600,000 Iraqi civilians and that's the bottom estimate. Estimates go as high as a couple million.

And our national security advisor clings to the success of the Iraq war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

noonereal said:

LOL, one was not allowed?

Who was this speaker?

I'd love to hear all about it.

So we need a presidential order so this person can speak?

You guys are being played for fools.

Click to expand...

You do know what "more than one" means don't you?

List of disinvited speakers at colleges - Business Insider

Conservative Speakers Not Allowed at Berkeley? | United Voice

Virginia Tech Tells Black Columnist To Take A Hike

Conservative Professor Banned By University From Speaking. Here's His Terrific Rebuttal. | Daily Wire

Here We Go Again: Conservative's Speech Cancelled at Berkeley Over 'Security Concerns'

trouble13 said:

You got action. Trump heard your concern and responded with his EO.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

LMAO translation: you cant answer my question, LMAO thats what though!

Who said it did? LMAO

anyway back to my actual questions

WHat are all the examples of a university factually violating free speech laws?
is this happening so often that an EO is needed?
if it is factually happening wheres all the won court cases against the people doing so?

and if it is factually happening i want action!

nota bene said:

Did you read the article I posted?

Click to expand...

Yes, I did and the point they make does not address the violation of the first amendment rights which independent (actually all) contractors have. The ACLU is already pursuing multiple cases of such laws (including in Texas) and we have already some Fed Court decisions saying that such laws likely violate the first Amendment


Laws Targeting Israel Boycotts Fail Again in Court | American Civil Liberties Union

On Thursday night, a federal court blocked Arizona from enforcing a law requiring state contractors to certify that they are not participating in boycotts of Israel. The court agreed with the ACLU that the law likely violates contractors’ free speech rights under the First Amendment.

The ACLU has also filed a suit against Texas

ACLU sues Texas schools, AG over Israel boycott law - Houston Chronicle

The American Civil Liberties Union is going to court on behalf of four Texans, including a Texas State University student, to challenge a state law that requires workers under state contracts to pledge not to boycott Israel or face the loss of their jobs or potential income.

The federal lawsuit filed Tuesday is the second case to call out the Texas law this week. Speech pathologist Bahia Amawi is suing state Attorney General Ken Paxton and the Pflugerville Independent School District after the pro-Israel clause was added during her annual contract renewal with the district.

ACLU went also after local governments which try to use the anti-boycott law in the applications they gave to victims who were applying for relief

Texas City Tells People No Hurricane Harvey Aid Unless They Promise Not to Boycott Israel | American Civil Liberties Union

OCTOBER 19, 2017
HOUSTON — The city of Dickinson, Texas, is requiring applicants for Hurricane Harvey rebuilding funds to certify in writing that they will not take part in a boycott of Israel. The American Civil Liberties Union criticized the city’s condition as a violation of free speech rights.

Do you think that ACLU is antisemitic?

noonereal said:

This is so ridiculous.

How does one define this?

Just who has EVER been a victim of this proposed offense?

This is so ****in asinine.

Click to expand...

Bill Mahar
Ben Shapiro
Nicholas Dirks
Anita Alvarez
Bassem Eid
Action Bronson
Emily Wong
John Brennan

There's more. Shall I go on?

noonereal said:

Come grasshopper, listen and I will teach you.

Combating 'bad' speech with facts and reason will have no effect or drive the person to dig in harder IF what the stupid speech is what the person wants to hear.

You want proof? Look at any Trumpet that posts here. Not a one will allow facts and reason to change their love of the orange Satan.

Click to expand...

The alt-right was a thing before Trump ever was. I was on a small forum mostly populated by the ****ers prior to the 2015-2016 election cycle. What I took away from my experience there is that certain actions designed to prevent radicalization actually serve more to validate the anti-PC crowd.

People in general will dismiss facts that rail against their own narrative, or what they beleive to be true. It's called, 'cognitive dissonance'. There's a name for it, because it's so freaking common with people who posess a human brain. I would argue that Trump supporters take this to cult-like ends, but that's me coming from a place of not agreeing with them on almost anything. The thing about these mental ****-ups, is that you don't even realize that it's happening when it happens.

It was actually through my interactions with atheists on message boards that I ended up dropping religion, but it didn't happen overnight. I didn't just walk into a debate and walk out throwing my fealty to God on the ground. Ignorance is far more resilient than that. I don't come here expecting to convert anyone any more than I expect to turn Republican, but I do consider the possibility that my own wrongness is beyond my radar, and reflect on that, and that's all I could ask of anyone else. Rome wasn't built in a day and whatnot.

I'm not going to say things are equal, because that's certainly not what I think, but I find myself dissapointed with everyone from time to time, myself included. I'm stubborn, and do not yeild easy; sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes it is not; it's not good to accept everything without scrutiny or contemplation, but the repulsion towards accepting that which we don't want to hear is one of the greatest obstacles that mankind faces.

It's worth noting that a web forum is not a school. What you see before you is a collection of people who've already made up their minds, think they know something, and are here to impart knowledge on the unknowing masses. Okay, im exagerating a bit, and probably being unfair, but my entire forum-going experience has been dominated by the prevalance of mind-games, egos, and every single thread essentially being a means towards people one-upping each other. Most people don't learn much of anything on a web-forum because they don't go there to learn--they go there to beat the other guy or gal into submission and give themselves their daily injection of pride--though I must admit that there's a bit of projection going on here.

While I could understand the compulsion to hide away narratives that we consider to be extreme or even dangerous, doing so is actually like trying to grip too tightly on a wet bar of soap. What ends up happening is you lend validation to accusations of the left-wing being anti free-speech, and them kids end up hearing whatever garbage you were trying to keep them from, anyway.

SLC said:

No they don't. More than one conservative speaker has been denied space to speak on campus even after Liberal have been allowed to speak on campus.

Click to expand...

I agree that this has happened sometimes with some speakers...

Of course, this is not just an issue in liberal campuses

Christian university cancels Ben Shapiro speech for campus '''unity''' | Fox News

The largest Christian university is under fire for canceling a speech from Jewish conservative commentator Ben Shapiro. The school cited "biblical truths" and a fear that he would divide the school's "unique and united community."

...

Of the dozens of schools Shapiro has spoken at, only a handful resulted in protests or a dangerous situation at ultra-liberal campuses like the University of California, Berkeley. Multiple people were arrested in Berkeley after mass protests broke out because of his speech.

...

In November, Gonzaga University in Washington State blocked Shapiro from speaking on campus, citing the school's Christian mission to "stand in solidarity " with marginalized communities and protect students from a hostile campus environment, according to the Washington Times.

pamak said:

I agree that this has happened sometimes with some speakers...

Of course, this is not just an issue in liberal campuses

Christian university cancels Ben Shapiro speech for campus '''unity''' | Fox News

The largest Christian university is under fire for canceling a speech from Jewish conservative commentator Ben Shapiro. The school cited "biblical truths" and a fear that he would divide the school's "unique and united community."

...

Of the dozens of schools Shapiro has spoken at, only a handful resulted in protests or a dangerous situation at ultra-liberal campuses like the University of California, Berkeley. Multiple people were arrested in Berkeley after mass protests broke out because of his speech.

...

In November, Gonzaga University in Washington State blocked Shapiro from speaking on campus, citing the school's Christian mission to "stand in solidarity " with marginalized communities and protect students from a hostile campus environment, according to the Washington Times.

Click to expand...

Two points:

1. That is a private university, not a publicly funded one.

2. The reason they canceled his speech was not based on his political views, it was based on his religious views. They are a "Christian" university and Shapiro is Jewish.

I also want to point out a few things you quoted, such as "only a handful resulted in protests or a dangerous situation at ultra-liberal campuses". A handful is a handful too much. Then there was this "...blocked Shapiro from speaking on campus, citing the school's Christian mission to "stand in solidarity " with marginalized communities and protect students from a hostile campus environment" which is an example of stifling opposing political speech.

.

Grim17 said:

Two points:

1. That is a private university, not a publicly funded one.

2. The reason they canceled his speech was not based on his political views, it was based on his religious views. They are a "Christian" university and Shapiro is Jewish.

I also want to point out a few things you quoted, such as "only a handful resulted in protests or a dangerous situation at ultra-liberal campuses". A handful is a handful too much. Then there was this "...blocked Shapiro from speaking on campus, citing the school's Christian mission to "stand in solidarity " with marginalized communities and protect students from a hostile campus environment" which is an example of stifling opposing political speech.

.

Click to expand...

I am pointing at the fact that restricting the freedom of speech is not a "leftist" issue per se.
As for the universities being private, this is correct. Of course, one can start a conversation regarding if the government should reward such institutions with things like "tax exemptions"

https://www.aau.edu/sites/default/f...e/Tax-Exempt-Status-of-Universities-FINAL.pdf

The vast majority of private and public universities and colleges are tax-exempt entities as defined by Internal Revenue Code (IRC) Section 501(c)(3) because of their educational purposes –

By the way, I doubt that Shapiro's speech would have tried to defend Judaism and attack Christianity . The speeches I have seen by him deal with secular issues...

Xelor said:

From one of the several other threads on substantively the same topic:

Frankly, I think this is among the more ridiculous things Trump's proposed; however, I suspect it appeals to the hoipolloi.

Think about the primary implication of the measure:

The main federal revenue stream any university receives is research grant revenue. Thus if the federal government deems a first-rate university non-compliant on free speech, the American people are the losers, not the university, because the impact of Trump's EO is that some of the most capable institutions and researchers will not receive funding to study/research matters of key importance to the country.
​

• 
  [*=1]Federally Funded Academic Research Requirements: Background and Issues in Brief

Taking such a stance is absurd!​

ETA:
Before bothering to respond to the above, if you be so inclined, please take the time to understand the following:
-- The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
-- The Professor is In
-- So You Want to Work at a Teaching College

Click to expand...

Why would I want to fund bigots to conduct studies that produce results full of confirmation bias that supports their bigoted views?

It's pretty obvious why the left wants the practice to remain immune from consequences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

trouble13 said:

Why would I want to fund bigots to conduct studies that produce results full of confirmation bias that supports their bigoted views?

It's pretty obvious why the left wants the practice to remain immune from consequences.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever...

noonereal said:

This is so ridiculous.

How does one define this?

Just who has EVER been a victim of this proposed offense?

This is so ****in asinine.

Click to expand...

How it's going to be defined is an excellent question and one I am waiting for answer to. In principle I have no issue with the EO but in practice I may change my mind depending on the guidelines used.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

Xelor said:

Yeah, whatever...

Click to expand...

Lol that bit of truth stings a little huh

The fact is the left has a problem with bigotry in their party. There is no reason why they should receive public funding to support it. Let private donations finance their intolerant views. Nobody is preventing it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

Buzz62 said:

Bill Mahar
Ben Shapiro
Nicholas Dirks
Anita Alvarez
Bassem Eid
Action Bronson
Emily Wong
John Brennan

There's more. Shall I go on?

Click to expand...

I saw this little ass hpole on TV just two days ago, Ben Shapiro. I can see why he pisses people off. No joke. I just felt like slapping him silly he had so much hate.

I never heard of any of the others.

I'll obviously need links to verify what you are talking about.

I am a bit interested so I will read the links. Thanks.

DH Kirkwood said:

People in general will dismiss facts that rail against their own narrative, or what they beleive to be true. It's called, 'cognitive dissonance'. There's a name for it, because it's so freaking common with people who posess a human brain. I would argue that Trump supporters take this to cult-like ends, but that's me coming from a place of not agreeing with them on almost anything. The thing about these mental ****-ups, is that you don't even realize that it's happening when it happens.

Click to expand...

I am very well aware.

It was actually through my interactions with atheists on message boards that I ended up dropping religion, but it didn't happen overnight. I didn't just walk into a debate and walk out throwing my fealty to God on the ground. Ignorance is far more resilient than that. I don't come here expecting to convert anyone any more than I expect to turn Republican, but I do consider the possibility that my own wrongness is beyond my radar, and reflect on that, and that's all I could ask of anyone else. Rome wasn't built in a day and whatnot.

Click to expand...

Your type are few and far between.

I'm not going to say things are equal, because that's certainly not what I think, but I find myself dissapointed with everyone from time to time, myself included. I'm stubborn, and do not yeild easy; sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes it is not; it's not good to accept everything without scrutiny or contemplation, but the repulsion towards accepting that which we don't want to hear is one of the greatest obstacles that mankind faces.

Click to expand...

Much respect, few, very few, realize this.

It's worth noting that a web forum is not a school. What you see before you is a collection of people who've already made up their minds, think they know something, and are here to impart knowledge on the unknowing masses.

Click to expand...

I know. It's frustrating as I am here to impart knowledge to these dredge. :mrgreen:

Okay, im exagerating a bit, and probably being unfair, but my entire forum-going experience has been dominated by the prevalance of mind-games, egos, and every single thread essentially being a means towards people one-upping each other. Most people don't learn much of anything on a web-forum because they don't go there to learn--they go there to beat the other guy or gal into submission and give themselves their daily injection of pride--though I must admit that there's a bit of projection going on here.

Click to expand...

I find it rather therapeutic.

While I could understand the compulsion to hide away narratives that we consider to be extreme or even dangerous, doing so is actually like trying to grip too tightly on a wet bar of soap. What ends up happening is you lend validation to accusations of the left-wing being anti free-speech, and them kids end up hearing whatever garbage you were trying to keep them from, anyway.

Click to expand...

I personally welcome differing considered opinions. It is the Kellyanne Conway type posters/people I can't take.

Grim17 said:

Two points:

1. That is a private university, not a publicly funded one.

2. The reason they canceled his speech was not based on his political views, it was based on his religious views. They are a "Christian" university and Shapiro is Jewish.

I also want to point out a few things you quoted, such as "only a handful resulted in protests or a dangerous situation at ultra-liberal campuses". A handful is a handful too much. Then there was this "...blocked Shapiro from speaking on campus, citing the school's Christian mission to "stand in solidarity " with marginalized communities and protect students from a hostile campus environment" which is an example of stifling opposing political speech.

.

Click to expand...

The caveat isn't on who it is funded by, but why they are justifying it. If government grants justify review of public universities, then they justify it for private ones as well.

Good luck to the Trump administration winning this case. You think Berkeley, Harvard and Yale don't know which private universities have government grants?

Lol.

What are they going to argue? No, no other private schools are exempt from this even if they have government grants and not you guys?




Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.