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But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

JasperL said:
Just so we're clear what I'm referring to: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ac8b446820a_story.html?utm_term=.da1e48b7aabb



So, you don't "make light of those who are careless with classified information" but are AOK with Jared using Russian facilities which provide the Russians a complete record of all talks, while keeping them secret from the United States?

Are you serious? You cannot be serious. It's perhaps the most reckless suggestion we've ever seen from a high ranking official anywhere near our government. Why in the world should U.S. officials (and at this point Jared was working for the transition, for the incoming POTUS) want to communicate in a way that provided 100% clarity to Russians, and 0% clarity to the United states, the government Jared serves? Explain that, if you can.

Besides, that's just ONE example. I listed several others and together the picture is completely damning. The most damning is the ZERO, NONE, NADA, ZILCH interest from the GOP Congress on any of that above.

Can you imagine if Hillary's FBI denied Chelsea's security clearance and Hillary overruled them. Then Chelsea's husband gets a $1 BILLION+ bailout from Qatar, who issues the most laughably absurd and insulting and dishonest explanation that they didn't know they were dealing with the son-in-law to Hillary, a fact reported in the NYT, before the deal closed? Number of Congressional inquiries under the GOP about either incident - ZERO.

I don't have a clue what YOU are concerned about, but we know the GOP don't actually care about national security breaches, because their actions demonstrate it beyond any doubt.
Click to expand...

The reason I posted the PBS article was to give you some clarity.
There is no proof that Jared Kushner did anything "illegal."
Read the article to the end.
 
Bullseye said:
Who were these "officials" and what level of classified material was involved? THAT was the problem with Clinton - dealing with classified material on unsecured networks. Oh, and don't forget the tens of thousands of Clinton emails that disappeared. Any of that happening here?
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Well, the primary issue with Clinton is that the Secretary of State's official email account by default is classified because it poses a security risk for enemy states to know the daily workings of the state department, even if the individual data is not classified. It's referred to in the business as "Derivative Classification". The examples that we get every year in training, for example, would be saying to spouse is being deployed is not classified, saying your spouse is in the Navy isn't classified, saying that your spouse is deploying in June isn't classified... all together, though, allows a foreign agency to make informed guesses on the deployment of military assets, so therefore it is classified.

The Secretary of State is a position with severe national security concerns, both as a target for assassination and as a target for capture. As such, an email trading Yoga poses is not classified, but it it says when, where, and with who you attend yoga classes it would be classified since it gives the enemy actionable information.

Someone with a live feed of the Secretary of State's official email would be able to aggregate a hell of a lot of actionable information by tying bits of info together even from unclassified emails.
 
Re: But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

hanger4 said:
The only assurance we have is we don't know all the facts yet.
Cummings concerned about Jared, Ivanka private emails, texts | WTOP
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OK, just so we are clear, so long as Jared didn't screenshot and forward classified information he sent using a Facebook app, so that he leaves a record of it, that's a fine way to communicate on official U.S. business. After all, we can trust him to screenshot the classified stuff, right?
 
SCrider said:
Yes, this is typical behavior, and so is the use of private servers for emails. Does not make it right, but it's not going to change. It should have never been a rally cry for the Trump campaign, bu t since they made it a focus can you agree that they should toe the line better?
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The PBS article posted above has nothing to do with emails.
:sigh:
 
HumblePi said:
We didn't protest and stomp our feet when the right was shouting 'lock her up' over her emails. We let the investigations continue and waited to find out what we already knew, that they would find very little, if any, wrongdoing. So, yes, we cared. But the question now is what gives with people such as yourself that will defend the indefensible and cry out in anger because now both Jared and Ivanka will be investigated for exactly the same thing

Out of 30,000 of Hillary's emails that were investigated and probed, they found 3 with a small 'C' on them designating them as classified. If the reporting is correct, Jared Kushner has been communicating with other foreign governments and leaders on WhatsApp specifically with the Saudi Crown Prince. And other officials like K.T. Macfarland who was using her AOL account to discuss the transfer of Saudi nuclear energy. So there's a real concern here that there were actual classified and state secrets that may have been exchanged. Keep in mind that Jared Kushner was denied a security clearance four times and he's handling classified material with foreign leaders.

For more than two years this has been going on and not a thing was done by the Republican Oversight Committee. They turned a blind eye to all of this which in fact made them all complicit with covering up things like that that could have possibly undermined our government. No wonder Putin and Mohammed bin Salman had such a gleeful 'high-five' laugh at the G20 summit at our expense. They knew how stupid and corrupt the Republicans were and it was to their great advantage that they were. They knew they ****ing had us in their back pockets.

Click to expand...
That's right you held your sham investigation and determined circumventing our laws is not big deal. The standard was set. Now going forward they all have the green light to do it. Why should anyone care now when they were told then that's it's acceptable to use unofficial and unsecured emails to conduct official communications.

Why do you want to convict trumps administration for things that are similar to what you excused from Obama administration?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk
 
trixare4kids said:
The reason I posted the PBS article was to give you some clarity.
There is no proof that Jared Kushner did anything "illegal."
Read the article to the end.
Click to expand...

I can't guess your point, but I'll try. This part?

CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING

Kushner’s outreach, at a time of alleged Russian meddling in the U.S. election, has fed accusations of Trump campaign collusion, which the FBI is investigating.

Eliot Cohen, a veteran of George W. Bush’s State Department, tweeted that contacts between a transition team and foreign diplomats are normal. “What is not normal,” he added, “is asking a hostile government to provide secure comms to avoid FBI/NSA surveillance.”

Former CIA boss Michael Hayden asked on CNN: “What manner of ignorance, chaos, hubris, suspicion, contempt would you have to have to think that doing this with the Russian ambassador was a good or an appropriate idea?”

Back channels are fine, Hayden said, “but you don’t do it when you’re not the government and I don’t think you do it using your adversary’s communications system.”
Click to expand...

So, explain why that's OK in your book. Thanks.
 
hanger4 said:
If lvanka did this and is held to account, whether it's behind bars, fines, probation or some combination of said will you demand HRC be held to account ??

BTW if Ivanka did this she should be held to account.
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I don't think either one of them did anything that warrants jail time. My beef is with those who believe Hillary should be behind bars. The "lock her up" crowd. If these people believe Hillary is a criminal that deserves to rot in jail, then they may be proven hypocrites if the facts come out that Ivanka Trump did largely the same thing and if they don't also want to see her in an orange jumpsuit.
 
Re: But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

JasperL said:
OK, just so we are clear, so long as Jared didn't screenshot and forward classified information he sent using a Facebook app, so that he leaves a record of it, that's a fine way to communicate on official U.S. business. After all, we can trust him to screenshot the classified stuff, right?
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What part of

"The only assurance we have is we don't know all the facts yet."

didn't you understand ??

We don't know what all the Kushner's did or didn't do.
 
Cardinal said:
While your fixation with Clinton is impressive, what's in doubt is whether you're capable of concerning yourself with something that's happening in the immediate present, whether national security was ever a concern of yours, or if it all just comes down to whether the person in the story has a D or an R after their name.
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No, rather your fixation is on getting Trump and national security secrets are irrelevant. Thus, you don't care that Clinton was emailing national security secrets illegally and so was her staff and even a spouse of her staff all who had no national security clearance to ever even see such information - with it acknowledged via Hilary Clinton's criminally illegal conduct foreign intelligence agencies were receiving those emails by Clinton's, her staff's and a staff spouse.

To the contrary, there is no allegation of any national security secrets being emailed on unsecured servers by anyone on Trump's staff. There is no prohibition whatsoever for any of his staff to have private email accounts. However, in your messages you don't care. Regardless of how pointless, you will rant about anything you believe gets Trump no matter how distorted or false.
 
trixare4kids said:
The reason I posted the PBS article was to give you some clarity.
There is no proof that Jared Kushner did anything "illegal."
Read the article to the end.
Click to expand...

BTW, again, the 'back channel' stuff was one example of many. I appreciate your effort to hand wave away all the other problems ignored by the GOP, but those other problems are important because they show a pattern of non-concern. We might excuse the 'back channel' stuff as a product of ignorance, in the early days. We know, however, it's not the only problem with Jared. We now know the FBI said "NFW that guy should get clearance" and Trump overruled them. Why did the FBI and Kelly and the WH counsel oppose Jared's clearance? We don't know and the GOP didn't care enough to ask. Ivanka flat out lied when asked whether their clearances were handled routinely. Did anyone in the GOP care? You know the answer. :roll:
 
Re: But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

hanger4 said:
What part of

"The only assurance we have is we don't know all the facts yet."

didn't you understand ??

We don't know what all the Kushner's did or didn't do.
Click to expand...

What part of "Using a Facebook app where we depend on Kushner taking screenshots of the relevant communications GUARANTEES WE WILL NEVER KNOW ALL THE FACTS, which IS THE POINT OF USING A PRIVATE FACEBOOK APP" do you not understand?
 
JasperL said:
I can't guess your point, but I'll try. This part?



So, explain why that's OK in your book. Thanks.
Click to expand...

No, it is not okay...
You're putting the cart before the horse, aren't you? “What is not normal,” he added, “is asking a hostile government to provide secure comms to avoid FBI/NSA surveillance.”

You don't have proof that Jared did this...
 
trixare4kids said:
No, it is not okay...
You're putting the cart before the horse, aren't you? “What is not normal,” he added, “is asking a hostile government to provide secure comms to avoid FBI/NSA surveillance.”

You don't have proof that Jared did this...
Click to expand...

My point of course was that the GOP didn't care enough to even ask about this. Was this incident in part why the FBI, Kelly and WH counsel recommended against Jared getting a security clearance? We don't know, but we do know the number of hearings about this was ZERO. NONE. And, again, that's not the only issue ignored by the GOP Congress.

Thankfully, Democrats have the gavel now in the House and we'll have hearings on this and more.
 
lwf said:
I don't think either one of them did anything that warrants jail time. My beef is with those who believe Hillary should be behind bars. The "lock her up" crowd. If these people believe Hillary is a criminal that deserves to rot in jail, then they may be proven hypocrites if the facts come out that Ivanka Trump did largely the same thing and if they don't also want to see her in an orange jumpsuit.
Click to expand...

"Lock her up", "

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”

^^^^ Political rhetoric ^^^^

I assume you stay beefed all the time.
 
HumblePi said:
But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/their-emails-seven-members-trumps-team-have-used-unofficial-communications-tools/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.7910afcfdccc

President Trump’s objections to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server when she was secretary of state were never terribly convincing. He didn’t always seem to understand what she had done, and made claims about how she had deleted emails or wiped her server that suggested, at least, a lack of familiarity with technical details. At times, he claimed that Clinton, his Democratic presidential challenger in 2016, had tried to shield unethical activity by using a personal account. At others, he specifically criticized her for having shared classified material through her personal account.


Generally, though, Trump seemed to understand that nearly any sentence that included “Hillary’s emails” or “Hillary’s illegal server” had the same positive effect on his supporters as any other. It became a shorthand for all of the corruption he and his base saw in his rival’s candidacy. If Trump’s broad criticism was true, that the use of a private account to conduct official business is suspect — if not illegal — and represents an effort to mask illicit activity, then we have bad news for him: An awful lot of that same suspect activity is taking place in his administration.


On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and daughter Ivanka Trump, both advisers to the president, had used either personal email accounts or the messaging application WhatsApp to conduct official business, according to information from the House Oversight Committee.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(mine)

s a government employee, these people involved have been instructed to use only an official government email should be used in order to preserve information. There's no confusion about it and it's made very clear to them. Communicating with a foreign official using your personal email is exactly what they should not be doing because that's exactly the kind of information that should be captured. This is precisely what Hillary Clinton and others in the state dept were criticized for. Communications like that shouldn't be kept off a government server.

Hillary Clinton released tens of thousands of her emails so I'm looking forward to reading tens of thousands of Jared and Ivanka's emails when they release tens of thousands of them. And we can see if they're talking about recipes or climate change. Jared uses WhatsApp to communicate with foreign leaders like Mohammed bin Salman. WhatsApp is encryped so no record of these can be captured. This is a dangerous practice for the country. Remember that Jared Kushner is the one that requested a secret back channel method of communicating with the Russian Ambassador during the transition.
Click to expand...


The non-stop efforts by Democrats on this forum to try to force members to subscribe to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal by starting OPs to as free advertising with OPs based upon Washington Post and Wall Street Journal articles no one can read if not a subscriber or member is ridiculous.

Since the OP's sources can not be read my position is the OPer has not presented ANYTHING to back up the OP and it is all just made up out of thin air.

When are you Democrats going to learn that conservatives and Republicans are NOT going to finance what essentially are propaganda advertising outlets for the Democratic Party and global super rich?
 
Re: But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

JasperL said:
What part of "Using a Facebook app where we depend on Kushner taking screenshots of the relevant communications GUARANTEES WE WILL NEVER KNOW ALL THE FACTS, which IS THE POINT OF USING A PRIVATE FACEBOOK APP" do you not understand?
Click to expand...

Your assumptions are irrelevant.
 
hanger4 said:
Why not ??
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I'm asking if the GOP members of Congress have signed on or expressed support for Cummings' inquiry. I guess the answer is no...

We know that because when the GOP had control, none of these questions were subject to any inquiry, no hearings, no official requests for all of Jared's or Ivanka's email records, WhatsApp records, so we can know what they sent, what they preserved, what they didn't. Has Jared been communicating with MBS using WhatsApp? We don't know and the GOP didn't care enough to ask. That's the point.
 
apdst said:
Does that mean they should be held to the same legal standard as Clinton was?
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Yes. Now do some gymnastics and tell me why that shouldn't be the case.

jmotivator said:
WaPo is now behind a paywall.. can to reference where it said those emails included classified data?
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Hard pass. As soon as I put in that effort you will reject it entirely and tell me how it's all completely different.
 
hanger4 said:
"Lock her up", "

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”

^^^^ Political rhetoric ^^^^

I assume you stay beefed all the time.
Click to expand...

Who doesn't? ;)
 
Re: But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

hanger4 said:
Your assumptions are irrelevant.
Click to expand...

True enough, which is why I'm sure the GOP will jump on board with subpoenas for all of Jared's WhatsApp communications, all the emails on Jared and Ivankas private accounts, so we can see.
 
joko104 said:
The non-stop efforts by Democrats on this forum to try to force members to subscribe to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal by starting OPs to as free advertising with OPs based upon Washington Post and Wall Street Journal articles no one can read if not a subscriber or member is ridiculous.

Since the OP's sources can not be read my position is the OPer has not presented ANYTHING to back up the OP and it is all just made up out of thin air.

When are you Democrats going to learn that conservatives and Republicans are NOT going to finance what essentially are propaganda advertising outlets for the Democratic Party and global super rich?
Click to expand...

I don't have any subscriptions to any website that's behind a paywall, not the NYT, not the Wall St. Journal and not the Washington Post. I realize that many can't read a complete article from one of these sites because of the paywall and I've repeatedly given instructions here on how to circumvent a paywall, but nobody seems to have taken my advice. I would also post more of an exclusive article if I could here but the thread rules prohibit that because it violates copyright laws of the original article.

So, for the last time, here's how I get around any paywall.

First of all, I am using Firefox as my internet browser. Maybe other browsers have this feature and I can't speak for them, I can only speak about using this method on Firefox.

If you have Firefox and want to read an article behind a paywall just click on the little three horizontal lines in the upper right hand corner of of your Firefox page. On the drop-down box click on "New Private Window". There's a little Halloween mask icon next to that option. Once a new window opens it will be private and won't save any searches, etc. But you can grab the link of the article and copy and paste it into the search bar and it will immediately open and be entirely readable.

You're welcome.
 
joko104 said:
The non-stop efforts by Democrats on this forum to try to force members to subscribe to the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal by starting OPs to as free advertising with OPs based upon Washington Post and Wall Street Journal articles no one can read if not a subscriber or member is ridiculous.

Since the OP's sources can not be read my position is the OPer has not presented ANYTHING to back up the OP and it is all just made up out of thin air.

When are you Democrats going to learn that conservatives and Republicans are NOT going to finance what essentially are propaganda advertising outlets for the Democratic Party and global super rich?
Click to expand...

I have a subscription to WaPo, but I've been told you can copy a link and use an 'incognito' window in Chrome or the equivalents in all other browsers and view the articles without hitting your monthly limit.

At any rate, WaPo is a legitimate source. You being unwilling to pay to read it, or open up another browser, isn't anyone's problem but your own.
 
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