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But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

RetiredUSN said:
You and the all the hypocrites on here never cared 2-3 years ago, so what gives?
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We didn't protest and stomp our feet when the right was shouting 'lock her up' over her emails. We let the investigations continue and waited to find out what we already knew, that they would find very little, if any, wrongdoing. So, yes, we cared. But the question now is what gives with people such as yourself that will defend the indefensible and cry out in anger because now both Jared and Ivanka will be investigated for exactly the same thing

Out of 30,000 of Hillary's emails that were investigated and probed, they found 3 with a small 'C' on them designating them as classified. If the reporting is correct, Jared Kushner has been communicating with other foreign governments and leaders on WhatsApp specifically with the Saudi Crown Prince. And other officials like K.T. Macfarland who was using her AOL account to discuss the transfer of Saudi nuclear energy. So there's a real concern here that there were actual classified and state secrets that may have been exchanged. Keep in mind that Jared Kushner was denied a security clearance four times and he's handling classified material with foreign leaders.

For more than two years this has been going on and not a thing was done by the Republican Oversight Committee. They turned a blind eye to all of this which in fact made them all complicit with covering up things like that that could have possibly undermined our government. No wonder Putin and Mohammed bin Salman had such a gleeful 'high-five' laugh at the G20 summit at our expense. They knew how stupid and corrupt the Republicans were and it was to their great advantage that they were. They knew they ****ing had us in their back pockets.

 
lwf said:
Just news headlines. Exactly the same proof I have of Hillary committing a crime.
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If Ivanka saved the emails/saved them via hard copies and didn't involve classified information in the emails, she'd likely get off with a warning.

Hillary sent at least 110 messages which the FBI said contained classified information at the time they were sent and she also destroyed others with no hard copies.

Apples and oranges.
 
Let's see how he reacts to Jared and Ivanka's emails being investigated. Will he say 'they should be in jail'? This is going to be political gold for the democrats.


 
Harshaw said:
If they are violating the law, then they should be appropriately prosecuted. But their doing it doesn't exonerate Hillary.
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In case you've forgotten, Hillary Clinton has already been exonerated and cleared of any wrongdoing by the FBI.

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spud_meister said:
So unless it's at the same scale as Clinton's activities it's ok? The problem isn't what Clinton did, but how much?
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Huh? How do you come up what that?
 
HumblePi said:
But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/their-emails-seven-members-trumps-team-have-used-unofficial-communications-tools/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.7910afcfdccc

President Trump’s objections to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server when she was secretary of state were never terribly convincing. He didn’t always seem to understand what she had done, and made claims about how she had deleted emails or wiped her server that suggested, at least, a lack of familiarity with technical details. At times, he claimed that Clinton, his Democratic presidential challenger in 2016, had tried to shield unethical activity by using a personal account. At others, he specifically criticized her for having shared classified material through her personal account.


Generally, though, Trump seemed to understand that nearly any sentence that included “Hillary’s emails” or “Hillary’s illegal server” had the same positive effect on his supporters as any other. It became a shorthand for all of the corruption he and his base saw in his rival’s candidacy. If Trump’s broad criticism was true, that the use of a private account to conduct official business is suspect — if not illegal — and represents an effort to mask illicit activity, then we have bad news for him: An awful lot of that same suspect activity is taking place in his administration.


On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and daughter Ivanka Trump, both advisers to the president, had used either personal email accounts or the messaging application WhatsApp to conduct official business, according to information from the House Oversight Committee.
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(mine)

s a government employee, these people involved have been instructed to use only an official government email should be used in order to preserve information. There's no confusion about it and it's made very clear to them. Communicating with a foreign official using your personal email is exactly what they should not be doing because that's exactly the kind of information that should be captured. This is precisely what Hillary Clinton and others in the state dept were criticized for. Communications like that shouldn't be kept off a government server.

Hillary Clinton released tens of thousands of her emails so I'm looking forward to reading tens of thousands of Jared and Ivanka's emails when they release tens of thousands of them. And we can see if they're talking about recipes or climate change. Jared uses WhatsApp to communicate with foreign leaders like Mohammed bin Salman. WhatsApp is encryped so no record of these can be captured. This is a dangerous practice for the country. Remember that Jared Kushner is the one that requested a secret back channel method of communicating with the Russian Ambassador during the transition.

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What irony! You would think Javanka would know better after years of Clinton email bashing. This will be entertaining.

:popcorn2:
 
HumblePi said:
But their emails: Seven members of Trump’s team have used unofficial communication tools

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/21/their-emails-seven-members-trumps-team-have-used-unofficial-communications-tools/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.7910afcfdccc

President Trump’s objections to Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server when she was secretary of state were never terribly convincing. He didn’t always seem to understand what she had done, and made claims about how she had deleted emails or wiped her server that suggested, at least, a lack of familiarity with technical details. At times, he claimed that Clinton, his Democratic presidential challenger in 2016, had tried to shield unethical activity by using a personal account. At others, he specifically criticized her for having shared classified material through her personal account.


Generally, though, Trump seemed to understand that nearly any sentence that included “Hillary’s emails” or “Hillary’s illegal server” had the same positive effect on his supporters as any other. It became a shorthand for all of the corruption he and his base saw in his rival’s candidacy. If Trump’s broad criticism was true, that the use of a private account to conduct official business is suspect — if not illegal — and represents an effort to mask illicit activity, then we have bad news for him: An awful lot of that same suspect activity is taking place in his administration.


On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and daughter Ivanka Trump, both advisers to the president, had used either personal email accounts or the messaging application WhatsApp to conduct official business, according to information from the House Oversight Committee.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(mine)

s a government employee, these people involved have been instructed to use only an official government email should be used in order to preserve information. There's no confusion about it and it's made very clear to them. Communicating with a foreign official using your personal email is exactly what they should not be doing because that's exactly the kind of information that should be captured. This is precisely what Hillary Clinton and others in the state dept were criticized for. Communications like that shouldn't be kept off a government server.

Hillary Clinton released tens of thousands of her emails so I'm looking forward to reading tens of thousands of Jared and Ivanka's emails when they release tens of thousands of them. And we can see if they're talking about recipes or climate change. Jared uses WhatsApp to communicate with foreign leaders like Mohammed bin Salman. WhatsApp is encryped so no record of these can be captured. This is a dangerous practice for the country. Remember that Jared Kushner is the one that requested a secret back channel method of communicating with the Russian Ambassador during the transition.

View attachment 67253060
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You've provided an inventive rationalization on behalf of Hillary Clinton; she only did the nefarious deed because she used a precedent from the future: "Hey, I knew the Trump family was going to do what I did , someday - so if they were going to get away with it, can't I do it first?" (wink)

By the way, returning how precedents work in the real world - the upshot of Hillary's gross negligence was in Comey announcing that "we don't enforce that law because we never have". So given Hillary unprecedented recklessness, and Comey claiming that such laws are not taken seriously , who are you blaming for the Trumps not taking it seriously? Exactly who showed the Trumps that its okay to ignore the consequences of laws that, apparently, don't matter?

Inquiring minds wonder...
 
maxparrish said:
You've provided an inventive rationalization on behalf of Hillary Clinton; she only did the nefarious deed because she used a precedent from the future: "Hey, I knew the Trump family was going to do what I did , someday - so if they were going to get away with it, can't I do it first?" (wink)

By the way, returning how precedents work in the real world - the upshot of Hillary's gross negligence was in Comey announcing that "we don't enforce that law because we never have". So given Hillary unprecedented recklessness, and Comey claiming that such laws are not taken seriously , who are you blaming for the Trumps not taking it seriously? Exactly who showed the Trumps that its okay to ignore the consequences of laws that, apparently, don't matter?

Inquiring minds wonder...
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Wherever did you get this crazy notion that I "rationalized" anything on behalf of Clinton? In what world are you that you think I've said anything like "she only did the nefarious deed because she used a precedent from the future: "Hey, I knew the Trump family was going to do what I did , someday - so if they were going to get away with it, can't I do it first?"

You should understand something. What you're doing right now is what you've wrongfully accused me of doing. That's not only wrong, it's an absolute perversion of truth.
 
Bullseye said:
Got anything ON topic?
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My comment was on topic. Clinton's email server was the height of Republican outrage for years because of national security concerns.

Then it was found out that Jared and Ivanka were using their own email and messaging methods for avoiding detection, and Trump granted security clearances to them (and lied about it) despite career officials turning them down.

And Republicans have been completely blasé about all of it.

So yeah, you might as well just admit that all the concerns about Clinton's emails were fake. You know it. We know it. We all know it. So drop the facade.
 
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So he admits to using whats app, which is encrypted and self deletes. So there is no record. At all. Because of this it is a favorite tool of terrorists and criminal organizations around the world.
But, no worries. He promises he is only using it for completely above board reasons. Even though, he has the entire communications network capabilities of the US government at his disposal.
Yeah. Right.
 
trblmkr said:
So he admits to using whats app, which is encrypted and self deletes. So there is no record. At all. Because of this it is a favorite tool of terrorists and criminal organizations around the world.
But, no worries. He promises he is only using it for completely above board reasons. Even though, he has the entire communications network capabilities of the US government at his disposal.
Yeah. Right.
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Everybody raise your hands: how many of you trust Facebook to respect the private content of your Whatsapp messages?
 
trblmkr said:
So he admits to using whats app, which is encrypted and self deletes. So there is no record. At all. Because of this it is a favorite tool of terrorists and criminal organizations around the world.
But, no worries. He promises he is only using it for completely above board reasons. Even though, he has the entire communications network capabilities of the US government at his disposal.
Yeah. Right.
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WhatsApp has given plenty of other revealing data to the FBI on multiple occasions. Mostly it's metadata showing which numbers contacted which over WhatsApp, when, and for how long, as well as the IP addresses and phone identifiers associated with the subpoenaed accounts. Location and contacts data may also be accessible to police when they come knocking on WhatsApp's door.

So just think of the kind of access governments like the US and Russia have. I am 100% sure that the messages between Jared and the prince are 100% monitored by the US, the Saudi, Russia, Israel and others.

If the FBI does listen to it they won't come clean about it because of legal reasons. For example, moments after the incident in NZ, the FBI was already at Australia then to NZ to "help" with the investigation. This means, the FBI has a "database" of stuff happening in Australia and NZ. Australia foils like 10 plots a year from people who want to do terrorism. So, the FBI and Aussie FBI are definitely listening to everything.
 
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HumblePi said:
WhatsApp has given plenty of other revealing data to the FBI on multiple occasions. Mostly it's metadata showing which numbers contacted which over WhatsApp, when, and for how long, as well as the IP addresses and phone identifiers associated with the subpoenaed accounts. Location and contacts data may also be accessible to police when they come knocking on WhatsApp's door.

So just think of the kind of access governments like the US and Russia have. I am 100% sure that the messages between Jared and the prince are 100% monitored by the US, the Saudi, Russia, Israel and others.
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"Others" including Facebook, probably.
 
HumblePi said:
WhatsApp has given plenty of other revealing data to the FBI on multiple occasions. Mostly it's metadata showing which numbers contacted which over WhatsApp, when, and for how long, as well as the IP addresses and phone identifiers associated with the subpoenaed accounts. Location and contacts data may also be accessible to police when they come knocking on WhatsApp's door.

So just think of the kind of access governments like the US and Russia have. I am 100% sure that the messages between Jared and the prince are 100% monitored by the US, the Saudi, Russia, Israel and others.
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We can only hope.
 
Wait, we are supposed to care about this now? Oh well, no intent, any reasonable prosecutor, etc...
 
PoppyCock said:
Wait, we are supposed to care about this now? Oh well, no intent, any reasonable prosecutor, etc...
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There wasn't intent the first time. However, it's a bit difficult to argue no intent when every Trump rally involves "lock her up!" in response to the emails. Trump's team knew what they were doing and tried to obscure it, which demonstrates mens rea.

And nobody here believes you cared about it the first time around either.
 
Anyone at all breaking this law should have the investigation they deserve. That's to say, get an idea of what information was risked, assess how dangerous it was and what level of classification, then they should be punished appropriately. This should start with the current administration since it seems to be ongoing activity and then carried backward until all culprits are caught and tried/punished appropriately.

This is not to say every infraction should be punished. It's freakin email. But classified data is classified for a reason and the secure servers are used for a reason. I don't care what relationship someone has to the president, it needs to be checked.
 
Keridan said:
Anyone at all breaking this law should have the investigation they deserve. That's to say, get an idea of what information was risked, assess how dangerous it was and what level of classification, then they should be punished appropriately. This should start with the current administration since it seems to be ongoing activity and then carried backward until all culprits are caught and tried/punished appropriately.

This is not to say every infraction should be punished. It's freakin email. But classified data is classified for a reason and the secure servers are used for a reason. I don't care what relationship someone has to the president, it needs to be checked.
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There's also a clear attempt to bypass Federal record keeping laws.
 
Cardinal said:
There wasn't intent the first time. However, it's a bit difficult to argue no intent when every Trump rally involves "lock her up!" in response to the emails. Trump's team knew what they were doing and tried to obscure it, which demonstrates mens rea.

And nobody here believes you cared about it the first time around either.
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That's nice, i dont believe you care about it, either.

They tried to obscure it? Was bleachbit and destroying devices with a hammer and 30K emails involved? Are classified communications involved?

And who elected you to speak for the entire forum?
 
Cardinal said:
There's also a clear attempt to bypass Federal record keeping laws.
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Absolutely correct. I have no idea if it's intentional, but that's why I suggest an investigation, not a prison sentence.
 
PoppyCock said:
That's nice, i dont believe you care about it, either.
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You know you have no principles so you try to convince yourself that everybody is as cynical and unprincipled as yourself. But you don't speak for me.
 
Keridan said:
Absolutely correct. I have no idea if it's intentional, but that's why I suggest an investigation, not a prison sentence.
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I'm not omniscient, but I think taking the position that it's intentional is just about the safest assumption of my life.
 
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