• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump says he spoke to General Motors CEO over Ohio plant closure

Bullseye said:
As I recommended yesterday stick to your own opinions, you have no clue what mine are.
Click to expand...

I thought this was Debate Politics, right? Where you share your opinions.
 
Bullseye said:
And yet, we have more job openings than people to fill them. We've had strong grow in manufacturing and construction jobs and are even pulling people who gave up looking or settled for part time work back into the labor force.
Click to expand...

For now sure, but where technology is trending regarding certain types of work is pretty clear. How much this is driven by the move of jobs back here will be something to watch. As a corporation you can get incentives for setting shop on these shores, but there's no guarantee you have to employee people here forever. A company can re-establish its manufacturing here then shift to automation down the line, after having received the tax incentives initially. If you look at the Carrier deal touted by Trump, $16 million was for investing in automation at the plant.

I don't think the machines are coming for every job, but as automation technology and software improves it seems like the natural transition. It will work well in some cases, but in others it won't (i.e. those requiring soft skills) so it's not all doom and gloom. The rote jobs though are the ones to be worried about because machines are far more efficient and there's no risk of injury and slow down of production. I'm looking at the long term, which is what this country needs to start preparing to face.
 
JacksinPA said:
Trump says he spoke to General Motors CEO over Ohio plant closure | TheHill

President Trump said Sunday that he spoke with General Motors CEO Mary Barra over the decision to shutter a manufacturing plant in Ohio.

"Just spoke to Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors about the Lordstown Ohio plant," Trump tweeted. "I am not happy that it is closed when everything else in our Country is BOOMING. I asked her to sell it or do something quickly. She blamed the UAW Union — I don’t care, I just want it open!"
=================================================
We live in a capitalist economy, not a Soviet-style centrally directed economy. Dictators don't pick up the phone in the U.S. & order corporate leaders to repurpose a manufacturing complex. Our system doesn't work that way. But Trump apparently wishes that it did.
Click to expand...

How soon you forget, Obama bailed out GM and we taxpayers lost 11.2 billion, Obama also gave solyndra 400 million and we lost every dime of that. He bailed out banks, brockerages, etc, yep bailed them out. Does that sound like a capitalist economy, let the chips fall where they lay, hell no it's Obama's Soviet-style centrally directed economy. Obama and Hillary would have shut down the coal industry, the oil industry, Obama by EO's tied up thousands of acres to keep oil rigs from moving on them. Obama was a Soviet-style dictator.

Further GM could care less that the taxpayers lost 11.2 billion. I wanted them to close shop and let the wolves buy up GM in pieces and there would not been one car not manufactured and the same jobs would have stayed and all the suppliers would not miss a beat. But no Obama with his Soviet-style dictatorship he want to make sure the unions did not go under. Obama picked and chose who he wanted to help and them not to help. And you say we live in a capitalist economy, not so with Obama. And there is not one damn thing wrong Trump talking to CEO's of any company. And Trump is not happy that Obama lost 11.2 billion on GM and they turn around and close plants. Would you be happy about that?
 
Trump says he spoke to.....

Lol. I was afraid to look and see if the rest of the abridged title said .... God.
 
jmotivator said:
Personally, no, but like you I have family members who are.
Click to expand...

They're unable to hire any new staff and they're working current staff at ridiculous levels.

Reason cited: Same as always, budget for actual health care is "discretionary", budget for facilities is non-discretionary. That means the VA hospitals can have all the pianos, artwork, lobby remodels, walkways and atriums they want, but when it comes to hiring more doctors, lab techs, surgical techs, nurses, etc...forget it, but Trump has added a new twist with further cuts, stripping the discretionary funds to the bone, and this is after he threw in a hiring freeze immediately after taking office.
Reason cited: Additional staff unnecessary because veterans can use Veterans Choice, which by the way, is causing the same long wait times that veterans experience IN the VA. (in SOME VA's - - not all)
(We are lucky, our home base is the Long Beach VA in California, one of the better ones)

So don't tell me, you flat out do not know what you're talking about, or to put it another way: You're wrong.
Learning something is a growth experience. Try it sometime.

You don't want to try using your trademark sneering and condescending tactic with me when it comes to matters concerning the VA. I WILL BURY YOU with FACTS and make you look even more uninformed than people already thought you were to begin with.
 
sangha said:
They don't have to quit their job in order to learn how to program robots?

That explains why there are so many people who know how to do it
Click to expand...

No, you can work and go to school, millions of peoples do it bud.
 
Bullseye said:
As I recommended yesterday stick to your own opinions, you have no clue what mine are.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? You tell us your opinion here ad nauseam. Why would he not know what your opinions are?
 
tres borrachos said:
I know, right? Looks like Trump is a progressive now. Or a socialist. Or something.

But as usual, his fans will defend him. Because he's so awesome and he's going to prevent the Hondurans from taking their blueberry picking jobs! Woot!
Click to expand...

w3R6Vr7.jpg
 
EnigmaO01 said:
What do you mean? You tell us your opinion here ad nauseam. Why would he not know what your opinions are?
Click to expand...
Checkerboard knows what I'm talking about, you don't matter.
 
JacksinPA said:
Trump says he spoke to General Motors CEO over Ohio plant closure | TheHill

President Trump said Sunday that he spoke with General Motors CEO Mary Barra over the decision to shutter a manufacturing plant in Ohio.

"Just spoke to Mary Barra, CEO of General Motors about the Lordstown Ohio plant," Trump tweeted. "I am not happy that it is closed when everything else in our Country is BOOMING. I asked her to sell it or do something quickly. She blamed the UAW Union — I don’t care, I just want it open!"
=================================================
We live in a capitalist economy, not a Soviet-style centrally directed economy. Dictators don't pick up the phone in the U.S. & order corporate leaders to repurpose a manufacturing complex. Our system doesn't work that way. But Trump apparently wishes that it did.
Click to expand...

Trump has established he is the brown stuff on the toilet paper.
 
ElChupacabra said:
For now sure, but where technology is trending regarding certain types of work is pretty clear. How much this is driven by the move of jobs back here will be something to watch. As a corporation you can get incentives for setting shop on these shores, but there's no guarantee you have to employee people here forever. A company can re-establish its manufacturing here then shift to automation down the line, after having received the tax incentives initially. If you look at the Carrier deal touted by Trump, $16 million was for investing in automation at the plant.
Click to expand...
There's no guarantee that anyone, anywhere, will be employed forever. And. yes, automation is on the horizon.

ElChupacabra said:
I don't think the machines are coming for every job, but as automation technology and software improves it seems like the natural transition. It will work well in some cases, but in others it won't (i.e. those requiring soft skills) so it's not all doom and gloom. The rote jobs though are the ones to be worried about because machines are far more efficient and there's no risk of injury and slow down of production. I'm looking at the long term, which is what this country needs to start preparing to face.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
ElChupacabra said:
That's definitely a pattern that we still have to contend with, but automation gives you the benefit of being able to set up shop in more stable countries and not have to pay high wages and benefits that comes with the price of labor in industrialized nations.
Click to expand...

Well, if the goal is to automate, they can do it in the US.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
They're unable to hire any new staff and they're working current staff at ridiculous levels.

Reason cited: Same as always, budget for actual health care is "discretionary", budget for facilities is non-discretionary. That means the VA hospitals can have all the pianos, artwork, lobby remodels, walkways and atriums they want, but when it comes to hiring more doctors, lab techs, surgical techs, nurses, etc...forget it, but Trump has added a new twist with further cuts, stripping the discretionary funds to the bone, and this is after he threw in a hiring freeze immediately after taking office.
Reason cited: Additional staff unnecessary because veterans can use Veterans Choice, which by the way, is causing the same long wait times that veterans experience IN the VA. (in SOME VA's - - not all)
(We are lucky, our home base is the Long Beach VA in California, one of the better ones)

So don't tell me, you flat out do not know what you're talking about, or to put it another way: You're wrong.
Learning something is a growth experience. Try it sometime.

You don't want to try using your trademark sneering and condescending tactic with me when it comes to matters concerning the VA. I WILL BURY YOU with FACTS and make you look even more uninformed than people already thought you were to begin with.
Click to expand...

None of that is new. In fact, Trump is the first to sign meaningful VA reform in years. Maybe your wife was lucky, but the last 10 years or so have been marred by abysmal mismanagement.

The bolded bit is interesting, though. You have intimate experience... and it's not terrible? So your experience isn't actually really bad... but Trump is destroying the VA? Weird....
 
Bullseye said:
There's no guarantee that anyone, anywhere, will be employed forever. And. yes, automation is on the horizon.

I agree.
Click to expand...

Nope, but the opportunities we can create to help people have access to the training and education to prepare for that transition is something a nation can handle proactively.
 
jmotivator said:
None of that is new. In fact, Trump is the first to sign meaningful VA reform in years. Maybe your wife was lucky, but the last 10 years or so have been marred by abysmal mismanagement.

The bolded bit is interesting, though. You have intimate experience... and it's not terrible? So your experience isn't actually really bad... but Trump is destroying the VA? Weird....
Click to expand...

Again, more bull**** because Barack Obama was BLOCKED from instituting no less than THREE reforms during his tenure.
The last ten years have seen steady improvement in most facilities even despite scandalous problems in others.
There are no excuses for Phoenix, for example, however there ARE explanations, ones which I bet you're not interested in hearing about, because your entire raison d'être is nothing more than "sticking it to the libtards".

We have intimate experience which is excellent but just so you understand, still marred by the same Republican funding cancers that have made it almost impossible to fix institutional level problems at the VA since Newt Gingrich flipped the funding template in 1994.

Example: (and again, reinforced and worsened just this year by Trump's Veteran's Choice program, which you are ignoring)

The VA has staff neurologists but the Spinal Cord Injury Unit (SCI) functions as a hospital within a hospital for patients with spinal cord injuries and spinal cord disease. What good is an SCI unit without its own SCI neurologist?
The Long Beach VA went for TWO YEARS without an SCI neurologist because they were told there was no budget to hire a new one, and the SCI at VA Long Beach NEEDS TWO of them to fill the workload.
FINALLY, at the end of Obama's term, money became available and a single staff neurologist was hired, but just as they were preparing to hire a second one, Trump's Veterans Choice program CUT the budget for the second one.

Keep talking, Jmotivator...you're motivating me to pull out a bigger shovel.
It's worth it because other members will get to learn a lot about how Trump and the Republicans treat the VA when no one is looking or listening. But the veterans are listening and to date the ONLY Veterans Service organization to BACK Trump is the Koch Brothers funded "Concerned Veterans for America", an astroturf group that has only existed since 2012.

The American Legion, Disabled Veterans of America, Paralyzed Veterans of America, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Association, VoteVets, Veterans of Foreign Wars and Vietnam Veterans of America ALL AGREE that Trump's policies amount to nothing more than a naked attempt to destroy the VA through steady attempts at privatization and the slow dearth and death of functioning VA programs now in operation.

These groups have more than a CENTURY of history, CVfA has pimples.
Keep talking.

[h=3]CVA Has a 'Seat at the Table'[/h]In a post on its website, CVA touted that it has a "seat at the table with the Trump administration." In particular, CVA reports that Trump is receptive to CVA's push to privatize Veterans health care.
CVfA is the ONLY veterans service organization with a "seat at the table" because Trump has locked all the other ones OUT.

KEEP TALKING, keep making a fool out of yourself.
 
Last edited:
sjmay said:
No, you can work and go to school, millions of peoples do it bud.
Click to expand...
I wonder how long it takes to get a 4 year degree when you go to school part time?

It must be great for the kids to never get time with their parents
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Again, more bull**** because Barack Obama was BLOCKED from instituting no less than THREE reforms during his tenure.
The last ten years have seen steady improvement in most facilities even despite scandalous problems in others.
There are no excuses for Phoenix, for example, however there ARE explanations, ones which I bet you're not interested in hearing about, because your entire raison d'être is nothing more than "sticking it to the libtards".

We have intimate experience which is excellent but just so you understand, still marred by the same Republican funding cancers that have made it almost impossible to fix institutional level problems at the VA since Newt Gingrich flipped the funding template in 1994.

Example: (and again, reinforced and worsened just this year by Trump's Veteran's Choice program, which you are ignoring)

The VA has staff neurologists but the Spinal Cord Injury Unit (SCI) functions as a hospital within a hospital for patients with spinal cord injuries and spinal cord disease. What good is an SCI unit without its own SCI neurologist?
The Long Beach VA went for TWO YEARS without an SCI neurologist because they were told there was no budget to hire a new one, and the SCI at VA Long Beach NEEDS TWO of them to fill the workload.
FINALLY, at the end of Obama's term, money became available and a single staff neurologist was hired, but just as they were preparing to hire a second one, Trump's Veterans Choice program CUT the budget for the second one.

Keep talking, Jmotivator...you're motivating me to pull out a bigger shovel.
It's worth it because other members will get to learn a lot about how Trump and the Republicans treat the VA when no one is looking or listening. But the veterans are listening and to date the ONLY Veterans Service organization to BACK Trump is the Koch Brothers funded "Concerned Veterans for America", an astroturf group that has only existed since 2012.

The American Legion, Disabled Veterans of America, Paralyzed Veterans of America, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Association, VoteVets, Veterans of Foreign Wars and Vietnam Veterans of America ALL AGREE that Trump's policies amount to nothing more than a naked attempt to destroy the VA through steady attempts at privatization and the slow dearth and death of functioning VA programs now in operation.

These groups have more than a CENTURY of history, CVfA has pimples.
Keep talking.

[h=3]CVA Has a 'Seat at the Table'[/h]In a post on its website, CVA touted that it has a "seat at the table with the Trump administration." In particular, CVA reports that Trump is receptive to CVA's push to privatize Veterans health care.
CVfA is the ONLY veterans service organization with a "seat at the table" because Trump has locked all the other ones OUT.

KEEP TALKING, keep making a fool out of yourself.
Click to expand...


You are describing the VA for as long as I have known the VA. It has long suffered from mismanagement and, as a result, will always have budget short falls like every other government agency. There is never enough money for a poorly managed, wasteful program. Money is the easy, make believe answer, and will always be the excuse by poor managers to deflect your anger from their awful job. I guarantee you that the VA, like every other government agency, has a push in September every year to spend all of their leftover money in run up to their next budget request.

And the budget argument itself is just plain stupid... the funding for the VA has increased by 20% in the last 3 years. Tell me again how the SCI hiring is a problem of budget and not poor budget management by the VA? :roll:

While you name a lot of advocacy groups, but not links to statements by them, I would normally ask you to do you own footwork, but it doesn't really matter. The VA is in desperate need of a major overhaul, and to those who have a Utopian view of government managed healthcare, many of those reforms will appear to be destructive. What is actually destroying the VA is the VA.
 
sangha said:
I wonder how long it takes to get a 4 year degree when you go to school part time?

It must be great for the kids to never get time with their parents
Click to expand...

Seriously? You've never heard of trade or vocational school?

You literally have a one track mind and your creative thinking is next to none....

If it ain't handed to you, you ain't touchin it are you?
 
The nerve of president Trump to actually speak with the CEO of General Motors to try and
keep the Lordstown auto plant producing automobiles. You just have to wonder why he
would try to keep good paying jobs for thousands of blue collar workers.

AR-181209728.jpg
 
jmotivator said:
You are describing the VA for as long as I have known the VA. It has long suffered from mismanagement and, as a result, will always have budget short falls like every other government agency. There is never enough money for a poorly managed, wasteful program. Money is the easy, make believe answer, and will always be the excuse by poor managers to deflect your anger from their awful job. I guarantee you that the VA, like every other government agency, has a push in September every year to spend all of their leftover money in run up to their next budget request.

And the budget argument itself is just plain stupid... the funding for the VA has increased by 20% in the last 3 years. Tell me again how the SCI hiring is a problem of budget and not poor budget management by the VA? :roll:

While you name a lot of advocacy groups, but not links to statements by them, I would normally ask you to do you own footwork, but it doesn't really matter. The VA is in desperate need of a major overhaul, and to those who have a Utopian view of government managed healthcare, many of those reforms will appear to be destructive. What is actually destroying the VA is the VA.
Click to expand...

In 1994 the Gingrich Congress made several rule changes in how some things are funded, including the VA.
The VA physical plant budget is NON-discretionary spending, meaning if the VA spends all the money it needs for building maintenance, remodeling etc in a given year, it is guaranteed to get that same amount or even more the next year.

The VA Health Care budget, which pays for doctor salaries, medicines, pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, lab techs, nurses, orderlies, physical therapists, research, and anything else directly related to patient care, is DISCRETIONARY SPENDING, which means that every single year, someone in Congress can, on a whim, make cuts here, make cuts there, make cuts wherever they wish at their discretion.

Result? Troubled VA facilities which can't hire doctors but which have pianos, artwork, atriums, walkways, gardens, all the beautiful stuff that creates JOBS for construction contractors, a beautiful rotting CORPSE.

From where I sit, as the husband of a 100% service connected disabled Navy veteran, this looks like an INTENTIONAL effort to CRIPPLE a government program in order to create a justification for attacking it. No one in their right mind would be ordering expensive remodeling projects while they can't find the money for a staff neurologist in a spinal cord injury unit unless it was with malice aforethought.

And so here we are, folks, another sunny day at Debate Politics, where Right wingers like Jmotivator issue fatwahs calling for the termination of treatment and benefits for all disabled veterans and the transformation of the government funded VA system to a bare voucher program, where disabled vets get to attempt to get outside doctors and hospitals to figure out how to treat a wide variety of health problems unique to their group, with a limited amount of funding, denial of care and rationing of benefits, while the private system winds up costing the taxpayers even MORE money than the VA did.

Doubt me? Have you looked at the private prison system? The assertion that privatization is a cure-all for troubled public programs is a myth. The keystone of privatization is making money for the stockholders, nothing more.

There's been talk of merging the network of military hospitals (DoD Healthcare System) together with the VA system.
That might actually be a great idea because it might do away with a lot of unneeded duplication, and it might bring a lot of valuable and important resources into the VA system to the benefit of both VA and military hospitals. It will also eliminate a lot of duplicate patient health care information as well, and streamline the info system so that it can work more smoothly.

It might also FINALLY put an end to the "discretionary versus non-discretionary" spending merry go round that the VA has to deal with every year.
The military system has never allowed Congress to play that game, and the VA system shouldn't have to.
 
sjmay said:
Seriously? You've never heard of trade or vocational school?

You literally have a one track mind and your creative thinking is next to none....

If it ain't handed to you, you ain't touchin it are you?
Click to expand...
I guess, in your world, there are thousands of vocational s schools teaching how to program those robots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom