• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boeing's Unsuccessful Attempt to Avert a Crisis

TU Curmudgeon

B.A. (Sarc), LLb. (Lex Sarcasus), PhD (Sarc.)
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
61,797
Reaction score
18,973
Location
Lower Mainland of BC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
From Der Speigel

Boeing's Unsuccessful Attempt to Avert a Crisis

Dennis Muilenburg and Donald Trump are said to have a close and trusting relationship. The Boeing CEO has boasted of his close rapport with the 45th president in front of TV cameras. Indeed, the Boeing CEO and the 45th U.S. president -- a known aviation enthusiast who once owned his own airline -- have spoken several times since Trump's election. "He cares about business," Muilenburg has said about Trump. "We sit with him at the table."

But on the morning of Tuesday, March 12, having the president's ear wasn't enough to fend off an order from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to ban all Boeing 737 Max 8s from U.S. airspace.

In a phone call with Trump earlier in the week, Muilenburg had tried to convince the president that there was nothing amiss with the plane. The crash in Ethiopia on March 10 was no reason to ground the entire fleet, the Boeing CEO had said.

One hundred fifty seven people were killed when an Ethiopian Airlines plane slammed into a field south of the capital Addis Ababa at a nearly vertical angle, but Muilenburg acted as if his company would be immune to any fallout. He claimed there was no safety problem, and that there were no parallels to the crash involving the same type of plane in Indonesia five months earlier. Boeing tersely responded that there would be a software update -- one that was supposed to make the planes safer. But with 356 people dead, the company's promise to reprogram some code just sounded cynical.

COMMENT:-

As others see it?
 
The most pathetic thing I saw through the whole thing was trying to blame the government shutdown for the crash. In all other situations these hypocritical rats call for the destruction of all mega corporations, yet when it benefits them, they take the side of a billion dollar mega corp because they have hatred for Trump.

Let it be clear. Boeing is responsible for the failures of the software. If there is any fault it should be attributed to them.
 
The most pathetic thing I saw through the whole thing was trying to blame the government shutdown for the crash. In all other situations these hypocritical rats call for the destruction of all mega corporations, yet when it benefits them, they take the side of a billion dollar mega corp because they have hatred for Trump.

Let it be clear. Boeing is responsible for the failures of the software. If there is any fault it should be attributed to them.

It has been reported that Boeing and the FAA had begun discussions on software update back in October of 2018. Those discussions dragged on over “differences of opinion about technical and engineering issues,” and then the partial shutdown that dragged from December into February delayed the fix for five weeks. There are reports out today that the FAA and Boeing will be signing off on the software update certification in about 10 days.
 
It has been reported that Boeing and the FAA had begun discussions on software update back in October of 2018. Those discussions dragged on over “differences of opinion about technical and engineering issues,” and then the partial shutdown that dragged from December into February delayed the fix for five weeks. There are reports out today that the FAA and Boeing will be signing off on the software update certification in about 10 days.

And just as I predicted, your hatred for Trump overrides your sense of decency.
 
It has been reported that Boeing and the FAA had begun discussions on software update back in October of 2018. Those discussions dragged on over “differences of opinion about technical and engineering issues,” and then the partial shutdown that dragged from December into February delayed the fix for five weeks. There are reports out today that the FAA and Boeing will be signing off on the software update certification in about 10 days.

And the contemporaneous reports that Boeing and the FAA had (at least) "identified that there might be a problem that should be fixed" are - where?
 
And just as I predicted, your hatred for Trump overrides your sense of decency.

You are also predictable in you hatred for the truth. Grow up. The truth will set you free.
 
From Der Speigel

Boeing's Unsuccessful Attempt to Avert a Crisis

Dennis Muilenburg and Donald Trump are said to have a close and trusting relationship. The Boeing CEO has boasted of his close rapport with the 45th president in front of TV cameras. Indeed, the Boeing CEO and the 45th U.S. president -- a known aviation enthusiast who once owned his own airline -- have spoken several times since Trump's election. "He cares about business," Muilenburg has said about Trump. "We sit with him at the table."

But on the morning of Tuesday, March 12, having the president's ear wasn't enough to fend off an order from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to ban all Boeing 737 Max 8s from U.S. airspace.

In a phone call with Trump earlier in the week, Muilenburg had tried to convince the president that there was nothing amiss with the plane. The crash in Ethiopia on March 10 was no reason to ground the entire fleet, the Boeing CEO had said.

One hundred fifty seven people were killed when an Ethiopian Airlines plane slammed into a field south of the capital Addis Ababa at a nearly vertical angle, but Muilenburg acted as if his company would be immune to any fallout. He claimed there was no safety problem, and that there were no parallels to the crash involving the same type of plane in Indonesia five months earlier. Boeing tersely responded that there would be a software update -- one that was supposed to make the planes safer. But with 356 people dead, the company's promise to reprogram some code just sounded cynical.

COMMENT:-

As others see it?

One puzzling aspect of this to me is that there were reported incidents with US pilots having encountered seemingly the same type of stall avoidance software glitches during climbs shortly after takeoff with the SuperMax. But the US pilots seemed to be able to disable the anti-stall system and establish manual control of the aircraft quickly enough before the problem became critical. Difference in training? Ethiopia Air has a excellent reputation. However I find the characterization of the communications with the Ethiopia Air pilots shortly after takeoff as "panicky" somewhat troubling. Panic in the cockpit is never a good thing.
 
Last edited:
And the contemporaneous reports that Boeing and the FAA had (at least) "identified that there might be a problem that should be fixed" are - where?

Umm Could this be the reason?

A Boeing Co. 737 Max jet, operated by Indonesia’s Lion Air, crashed in the Java Sea with 189 people on board, making it the model’s first accident and potentially the worst commercial aviation disaster in three years.

Flight JT610, an almost brand new 737 Max 8, took off from the capital Jakarta at 6:20 a.m. local time Monday and lost contact 13 minutes later when it was at an altitude of about 3,000 feet, according to Indonesia’s National Search and Rescue Agency. The aircraft was heading for the popular tourist destination of Pangkalpinang, off Sumatra.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

or this?
I
n one incident, an airline pilot reported that immediately after engaging the Max 8’s autopilot, the co-pilot shouted “DESCENDING,” followed by an audio cockpit warning, “DON’T SINK! DON’T SINK!”

“I immediately disconnected AP (Autopilot) (it WAS engaged as we got full horn etc.) and resumed climb,” the pilot writes in the report, which is available in a database compiled by NASA. “Now, I would generally assume it was my automation error, i.e., aircraft was trying to acquire a miss-commanded speed/no autothrottles, crossing restriction etc., but frankly neither of us could find an inappropriate setup error (not to say there wasn’t one).”

Another pilot said it was “unconscionable that a manufacturer, the FAA, and the airlines would have pilots flying an airplane without adequately training, or even providing available resources and sufficient documentation to understand the highly complex systems that differentiate this aircraft from prior models.”

Pilots complained about Boeing jets involved in two deadly crashes - The Verge
 
Last edited:
Dennis Muilenburg and Donald Trump are said to have a close and trusting relationship. The Boeing CEO has boasted of his close rapport with the 45th president in front of TV cameras. Indeed, the Boeing CEO and the 45th U.S. president -- a known aviation enthusiast who once owned his own airline -- have spoken several times since Trump's election. "He cares about business," Muilenburg has said about Trump. "We sit with him at the table."

Is Trump banned from having friends in different business.

But on the morning of Tuesday, March 12, having the president's ear wasn't enough to fend off an order from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to ban all Boeing 737 Max 8s from U.S. airspace.

If I recall correctly it was Trump that grounded the Boeing planes before the FAA did.

In a phone call with Trump earlier in the week, Muilenburg had tried to convince the president that there was nothing amiss with the plane. The crash in Ethiopia on March 10 was no reason to ground the entire fleet, the Boeing CEO had said.

Again as I understand Trump grounded Boeings planes before the FAA did
 
And just as I predicted, your hatred for Trump overrides your sense of decency.

And if you have any true sense of, or appreciation for decency you wouldn't be so blindly supportive of Trump.
 
And if you have any true sense of, or appreciation for decency you wouldn't be so blindly supportive of Trump.

What exactly did Trump do to be blamed for the Boeing crashes?? Yes that is a question.

Further Trump was ahead of the FAA grounding the Boeing planes. Was that a mistake on Trump's part?? Yep another question

I suggest you have a blind hatred of Trump, but I look forward to your answers.
 
Last edited:
Is Trump banned from having friends in different business.

Not in the least.

He, however, should not let those friendship or business interests sway him - especially when lives of innocent people are at risk.

If I recall correctly it was Trump that grounded the Boeing planes before the FAA did.

Again as I understand Trump grounded Boeings planes before the FAA did

I will give Mr. Trump the credit for thinking that the 737 Max should be grounded after he thought that they shouldn't be grounded came before the FAA decided to ground them as well.

I will also give Mr. Trump credit for being the leader of a nation that was amongst the first 42 nations to ground the 737 Max.
 
And if you have any true sense of, or appreciation for decency you wouldn't be so blindly supportive of Trump.

I don't support Trump, but this is Boeing's responsibility not his.
 
Not in the least.

He, however, should not let those friendship or business interests sway him - especially when lives of innocent people are at risk.

Are you claiming that Trump was swayed to not ground the Boeing planes. Trump grounded the planes before the FAA and it's the FAA who's job it is to move quickly on such matters, But Trump was ahead of the FAA. I guess that was a bad thing that Trump was ahead of the FAA, because he was swayed and didn't give a **** how many innocent people are at risk.

I will give Mr. Trump the credit for thinking that the 737 Max should be grounded after he thought that they shouldn't be grounded came before the FAA decided to ground them as well.

WOW that is John Kerry all over again "I was for it before I was against". Please post up your proof that Trump thought they shouldn't be grounded. But your comment is useless, Trump made the decision before the FAA.

I will also give Mr. Trump credit for being the leader of a nation that was amongst the first 42 nations to ground the 737 Max.

Which proves over and over again, he is for providing security for our citizens.
 
Last edited:
And the contemporaneous reports that Boeing and the FAA had (at least) "identified that there might be a problem that should be fixed" are - where?

Weeks after a deadly crash involving a Boeing plane last October, company officials met separately with the pilot unions at Southwest Airlines and American Airlines. The officials said they planned to update the software for their 737 Max jets, the plane involved in the disaster, by around the end of 2018......

“Boeing was going to have a software fix in the next five to six weeks,” said Michael Michaelis, the top safety official at the American Airlines pilots union and a Boeing 737 captain. “We told them, ‘Yeah, it can’t drag out.’ And well, here we are.”


Boeing Promised Pilots a 737 Software Fix Last Year, but They’re Still Waiting - The New York Times
 
One puzzling aspect of this to me is that there were reported incidents with US pilots having encountered seemingly the same type of stall avoidance software glitches during climbs shortly after takeoff with the SuperMax. But the US pilots seemed to be able to disable the anti-stall system and establish manual control of the aircraft quickly enough before the problem became critical. Difference in training? Ethiopia Air has a excellent reputation. However I find the characterization of the communications with the Ethiopia Air pilots shortly after takeoff as "panicky" somewhat troubling. Panic in the cockpit is never a good thing.

US pilots are better trained and have many more hours in the seat than pilot of the airlines where the two crashes took place.
 
US pilots are better trained and have many more hours in the seat than pilot of the airlines where the two crashes took place.

Ethiopia may be respected but they’ve had fatal accidents from things like Crew fatigue in the not too distant past
 
Is Trump banned from having friends in different business.



If I recall correctly it was Trump that grounded the Boeing planes before the FAA did.



Again as I understand Trump grounded Boeings planes before the FAA did

He can have all the friends he wants.. but he cant give them preferential treatment.. and the very fact that you think Trump ordered the grounding is laughable... the man only tweeted a few days before that planes are too complicated.

No his PR people said to him to tweet this, because the FAA had made the call to do so.
 
It has been reported that Boeing and the FAA had begun discussions on software update back in October of 2018. Those discussions dragged on over “differences of opinion about technical and engineering issues,” and then the partial shutdown that dragged from December into February delayed the fix for five weeks. There are reports out today that the FAA and Boeing will be signing off on the software update certification in about 10 days.
If Boeing and FAA knew there was a safety issue with the software well before the shutdown they should have grounded the planes before the shutdown. Those planes should not have flown with passengers with defective software. The whole shutdown thing is just an attempt to deflect the blame.
 
He can have all the friends he wants.. but he cant give them preferential treatment.. and the very fact that you think Trump ordered the grounding is laughable... the man only tweeted a few days before that planes are too complicated.

No his PR people said to him to tweet this, because the FAA had made the call to do so.

Please post up proof of Trump giving anyone preferential treatment with this Boeing crises.

Yeah they are to complicated for some pilotes, thus Trump grounded the planes.

Trump ordered the grounding is laughable. I take it Trump should not have done anything like Do Nothing Obama would have done and then you would not be laughing.

Your bias hatred of Trump is really out there.
 
Back
Top Bottom