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Trump suggests that it could get 'very bad' if military, police, biker supporters play 'tough'

sjmay said:
Ok, I get that,

Question, in your scenario, who would go to jail for the corporation?
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Well in a perfect world it would be the CEOs and management that cut the inspections and ordered to cut corners.

However I think the company should not be fined momentarily but that they have to turn over a very large portion of ownership to the government for what ever period of time the judge rules.

If they want to have the rights of a person, they should be susceptible to the same repercussions.

We just incarcerate their business, just like a person...
 
Conservative said:
Your first amendment rights? LOL, this country prospered without you and will continue when you are gone. People like you think more of them selves than they are truly worth.

You live in this country stop trying to change it to your own country. You are a typical liberal who expects someone else to pay for personal responsibility issues

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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I know!

"Patriots" like you care only about the second amendment. Religious freedom is becoming controversial issue among "Americans" of your beliefs.
If you want me to stop talking about how this country can change for the better, you can do it by attacking my arguments to show how I am wrong . The fascist attitude of trying to avoid such debate by telling me to go back to where I belong shows your true colors and fear of having a honest debate. There are many threads in this forum where I and others discuss and debate policies about US issues. Feel free to confront me in any of those threads...
 
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GDViking said:
Well in a perfect world it would be the CEOs and management that cut the inspections and ordered to cut corners.

However I think the company should not be fined momentarily but that they have to turn over a very large portion of ownership to the government for what ever period of time the judge rules.

If they want to have the rights of a person, they should be susceptible to the same repercussions.

We just incarcerate their business, just like a person...
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What would turning over a large portion of ownership do?

I think if it's willfull misconduct, or cutting corners like you said, a few things are going to or should happen, HUGE fines, multiple people fired/jailed, and the public will decide if they want to continue supporting that company,

But in reality you are arguing that a corporation who does something wrong, should go to jail (so to speak) when shouldn't it be the person who did something wrong for the corporation, be it CEO, or worker etc, go to jail, ala Bernie Madoff etc

Isn't that the system we have now?
 
pamak said:
I know!

"Patriots" like you care only about the second amendment. Religious freedom is becoming controversial issue among "Americans" of your beliefs.
If you want me to stop talking about how this country can change for the better, you can do it by attacking my arguments to show how I am wrong . The fascist attitude of trying to avoid such debate by telling me to go back to where I belong shows your true colors and fear of having a honest debate. There are many threads in this forum where I and others discuss and debate policies about US issues. Feel free to confront me in any of those threads...
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Not subscribing to either side, but the argument is, you left your country to come here for a better opportunity, (generally speaking) why then would you want to turn this country, into the country you just left...for better opportunity.

Everyone should be able to live as they wish, pray as they wish, eat as they wish etc, I think the majority of the problem is when people come to this country and refuse to adapt to the country and instead, try to make it like it was back home, they refuse to assimilate themselves into society and try to wall themselves off, (Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Greece, etc) People celebrate that diversity, but they don't look at the otherside where cultures try to force their culture onto someone else.

That's where the whole, go back to your own country argument starts I think....be it right or wrong.
 
sjmay said:
What would turning over a large portion of ownership do?

I think if it's willfull misconduct, or cutting corners like you said, a few things are going to or should happen, HUGE fines, multiple people fired/jailed, and the public will decide if they want to continue supporting that company,

But in reality you are arguing that a corporation who does something wrong, should go to jail (so to speak) when shouldn't it be the person who did something wrong for the corporation, be it CEO, or worker etc, go to jail, ala Bernie Madoff etc

Isn't that the system we have now?
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No we don't, when CEOs are held accountable they never get anywhere near the penalty they deserve.

Fines are just considered a part of doing business, an expense they would like to avoid but budget for.

Taking a part or all of their business would be a real punishment, one they would actually fear...
 
GDViking said:
No we don't, when CEOs are held accountable they never get anywhere near the penalty they deserve.

Fines are just considered a part of doing business, an expense they would like to avoid but budget for.

Taking a part or all of their business would be a real punishment, one they would actually fear...
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I disagree, CEO's are fired all the time for bad performance, non performance etc....

Make the fines big enough to not budget for them, the issue with that is, if you make them too big, you risk bankrupting the company, imagine a scenario where Ford takes a shortcut, on brakes, hurts someone, they get sued, lose the lawsuit etc, and now the government comes in with a 80 BILLION fine, that's 50% of their revenue from 2018, you run the risk of bankrupting that company and putting THOUSANDS of worker's out of work...

But you are arguing that the government should just simply TAKE the corporation over....from who? The CEO who was just fired?

Corporations aren't owned by one single person.......you realize that right?
 
sjmay said:
Not subscribing to either side, but the argument is, you left your country to come here for a better opportunity, (generally speaking) why then would you want to turn this country, into the country you just left...for better opportunity.

Everyone should be able to live as they wish, pray as they wish, eat as they wish etc, I think the majority of the problem is when people come to this country and refuse to adapt to the country and instead, try to make it like it was back home, they refuse to assimilate themselves into society and try to wall themselves off, (Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Greece, etc) People celebrate that diversity, but they don't look at the otherside where cultures try to force their culture onto someone else.

That's where the whole, go back to your own country argument starts I think....be it right or wrong.
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I never said that I left my country to come here for a better opportunity. He make things up! See post #598. But even if what he said was true, the proper challenge to an immigrant who comes here to get a better opportunity and who also believes that some things need to change is to challenge his views. If a European believes based on is his personal experience in Europe and the US that a EU style universal healthcare is better for the Americans, he should be heard because he brings a unique perspective which may be more valuable than the perspective of an ignorant American who has never worked abroad!
 
pamak said:
I never said that I left my country to come here for a better opportunity. He make things up! See post #598. But even if what he said was true, the proper challenge to an immigrant who comes here to get a better opportunity and who also believes that some things need to change is to challenge his views. If a European believes based on is his personal experience in Europe and the US that a EU style universal healthcare is better for the Americans, he should be heard because he brings a unique perspective which may be more valuable than the perspective of an ignorant American who has never worked abroad!
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Not saying that you did, bud, I was saying in general, that's where the argument is coming from which you completely glossed over....

As far as what you say, yes, they should be listened to, no one is saying they shouldn't be listened to, the problem generally comes from when people who want to be listened to, refuses to hear the other side.
 
SheWolf said:
WTF is wrong with Trump?

I mean... just... WTF... what is he thinking? It does sound like he wants violence or wants to encourage it. I really don't know how or why Trump thinks this is a good idea or makes sense. If his supporters go out and rally, and try to look tough and intimidate, and violence erupts... does Trump really think he will gain? Does Trump really think that that is going to help is political goals like getting his wall funding?

That makes no sense.

Part of me thinks, maybe Trump is listening to way too many crazy people who want a Civil War or something.
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He wants to stay in office a long long LONG time - like for life. He has said so. Then Don, Jr. or Ivanka. I will move to another country if that happens.
 
HumblePi said:

[url]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-suggests-that-it-could-get-very-bad-if-military-police-biker-supporters-play-tough/ar-BBUMyvn?li=AAa0dzB&page=2
[/URL]
Trump suggests that it could get 'very bad' if military, police, biker supporters play 'tough'

President Trump in a new interview suggested that his supporters are tougher than Democrats, and that if they actually play tough things could get "very bad."Trump made the comments in the context of an interview with the conservative outlet Breitbart in which he argued that Democrats play a tough political game.
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Pelosi has already indicated that she thinks upsetting-the-apple-cart will do the country more harm than good.

In a way, the HofR working with Senate Replicants is a better way to "manage" this a-hole in the White House. Many Replicants have had enough of him too!

Two more years, we can bear it. Let's start fixing the prime reason that a presidential candidate who LOSES THE POPULAR VOTE can still become PotUS because to the manipulation-malarkey going on in the Electoral College!

It is no longer the turn of the 18th century when there were no roads and getting the presidential vote to Congress was really very difficult. So they "devised" the Electoral College and then STOOPIDLY allowed the college to side-step the popular-vote result by giving the winner of the popular vote ALL THE VOTES OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!

Two hundred years later and We still, as a nation, do not understand that such a ploy is an attack on the fundamental right of all citizens to vote and thus chose their political representatives to office WITHOUT MANIPULATION.
 
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HumblePi said:
There's no limit to this man's abhorrent, traitorous, dictatorial behavior.

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Well, there is a limit. It comes in November of next year.

Let's all be sure not to miss it ... !

PS: And when he is no longer PotUS, he has a good number of appointments in court! It's going to be GOOD FUN watching this Bleating Boob in front of a judge and jury! Not even his "good friend" Putin will be able to save him.
 
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jghiretire said:
Sad fact is - it's working.
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Dunno about that. Given his "approval ratings" as seen here: Presidential Approval Ratings -- Donald Trump.

Thirty-nine percent is nothing to crow about - and it has never been above 45%, so one can only wonder how he ever got elected.

Key reasons:
*The Electoral College can and does seriously warp the popular vote. To such a point that a candidate (Hillary) can win the popular-vote by a margin of 2%; but lose the Electoral College vote. (And the American public thinks that such a result is acceptable in a "True Democracy"? Wow!)
*The popular-vote margin has evolved over the history of the US. (See the graphic showing popular-vote results here.)
*Five times in history, the loser of the popular-vote has been elected PotUS by the
Electoral College. Lately it is becoming a bad-habit. Both Hillary and Al Gore lost an election that they should have won based upon uniquely the popular-vote.
*No other developed country on earth has adopted a "college" to report the results of the popular-vote election of a head-of-state!
 
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jghiretire said:
He wants to stay in office a long long LONG time - like for life. He has said so. Then Don, Jr. or Ivanka. I will move to another country if that happens.
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If that happens, property rates in Canada will soar.
 
pamak said:
I know!

"Patriots" like you care only about the second amendment. Religious freedom is becoming controversial issue among "Americans" of your beliefs.
If you want me to stop talking about how this country can change for the better, you can do it by attacking my arguments to show how I am wrong . The fascist attitude of trying to avoid such debate by telling me to go back to where I belong shows your true colors and fear of having a honest debate. There are many threads in this forum where I and others discuss and debate policies about US issues. Feel free to confront me in any of those threads...
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I find it amazing how much you believe you know after moving to this country vs. someone who has been in this country for over 72 years. Is it possible you are little biased because you live in California and pay attention only to the media or spend so much time in this forum that is filled with people just like you, people who are either unable to compete in our economy or have a vested interest in the failure of this country?

Donald Trump has done absolutely nothing to hurt you, your family, or the country other than try to return power to the states which obviously in your state is a wasted effort as your state is a taker of those mandates the federal bureaucrats dish out, violates immigration laws, promotes higher cost of living with so called free stuff to illegals and those in poverty giving you the vision you have of this country. Your state is filled with the most selfish individuals I have ever seen thus this is what you evaluate America on.

Sorry but if you want the socialist economy you see to promote I suggest moving back and living it instead of being here in a country that promotes equal opportunity NOT equal outcome. Don't put too much stake in what you read or the last election results where 48% of the electorate voted vs. 60% in Presidential elections. We have a silent majority in this country too busy working and taking care of their families vs being in a debate forum like you or me as I am retired.

Unlike you as I have stated I learned personal responsibility growing up, I learned that if I needed help I could go to my neighbor and that neighbor wasn't a federal bureaucrat. I did't grow up in a 4.4 trillion dollar federal gov't and yet somehow I survived, raised two great kids who also understand personal responsibility and know where to go when they need help, not to the federal gov't

Too bad you never learned those principles or even any American values
 
Lafayette said:
Well, there is a limit. It comes in November of next year.

Let's all be sure not to miss it ... !

PS: And when he is no longer PotUS, he has a good number of appointments in court! It's going to be GOOD FUN watching this Bleating Boob in front of a judge and jury! Not even his "good friend" Putin will be able to save him.
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I'm with Nancy Pelosi regarding impeachment. Trump has too many men protecting him. Both republicans and democrats are reciting the 'let's wait for the report' phrase. That's fine and that's fair. We all know how the right can contort and deflect anything in order to justify it. Ultimately, I don't believe that a single republican would vote for impeachment even if Mueller or the SDNY had absolute, concrete, irrefutable proof of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Robert Mueller knows that he's working against the clock, but he's a man with a reputation of impeccable integrity and will not finalize his report if there's even one page un-turned or one lead not followed. Even if he understood that by delaying the investigation longer would certainly jeopardize the likelihood that republicans will step up and do the right thing, even then - he would no doubt abide by his lifelong commitment to moral and professional principles and finish when and only when he was confident there's no more to see.

I'm preparing myself for the moment it's released and there's no profound 'aha!' moment in his report in which both sides of Congress will point and say "that's it, we need to vote for impeachment!" I just don't think that's what's going to be in the Mueller report. I do however, think we'll see much of that in the investigations of the southern district. I think there will be a lot of crimes uncovered that will send a few people to prison.
 
Conservative said:
Donald Trump has done absolutely nothing to hurt you, your family, or the country other than try to return power to the states which obviously in your state is a wasted effort as your state is a taker of those mandates the federal bureaucrats dish out, violates immigration laws, promotes higher cost of living with so called free stuff to illegals and those in poverty giving you the vision you have of this country.

Too bad you never learned those principles or even any American values
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Those are YOUR VALUES not "American values".

And, for the present, our values are showing that we haven't sufficient education in something that is archly important to any functional democracy. It's called Civics.

Any nation that can believe that - for more than two centuries - it is right and proper that the Electoral College should manipulate the popular-vote (by simply giving all votes to whoever obtains the majority) is beyond help.

The naked popular-vote throughout the world - other than the US - is (as should be) fully sufficient to demonstrate clearly the electoral preference of any Real Democracy.

America needs to revise the 12th Amendment by stipulating that the Electoral College must ONLY report to Congress the result of the TOTAL popular-vote ...
 
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Lafayette said:
Those are YOUR VALUES not "American values".

And, for the present, our values are showing that we haven't sufficient education in something that is archly important to any functional democracy. It's called Civics.

Any nation that can believe that - for more than two centuries - it is right and proper that the Electoral College should manipulate the popular-vote (by simply giving all votes to whoever obtains the majority) is beyond help.

The naked popular-vote throughout the world - other than the US - is (as should be) fully sufficient to demonstrate clearly the electoral preference of any Real Democracy.

America needs to revise the 12th Amendment by stipulating that the Electoral College must ONLY report to Congress the result of the TOTAL popular-vote ...
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The Electoral College is a joke...Put in by Virginia Slave Holders to inflate their Representation by counting slaves as 3/5 of man....Why this outdated stupid decree has been allowed to stay is beyond me
 
HumblePi said:
I'm with Nancy Pelosi regarding impeachment. Trump has too many men protecting him. Both republicans and democrats are reciting the 'let's wait for the report' phrase. That's fine and that's fair. We all know how the right can contort and deflect anything in order to justify it. Ultimately, I don't believe that a single republican would vote for impeachment even if Mueller or the SDNY had absolute, concrete, irrefutable proof of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Robert Mueller knows that he's working against the clock, but he's a man with a reputation of impeccable integrity and will not finalize his report if there's even one page un-turned or one lead not followed. Even if he understood that by delaying the investigation longer would certainly jeopardize the likelihood that republicans will step up and do the right thing, even then - he would no doubt abide by his lifelong commitment to moral and professional principles and finish when and only when he was confident there's no more to see.

I'm preparing myself for the moment it's released and there's no profound 'aha!' moment in his report in which both sides of Congress will point and say "that's it, we need to vote for impeachment!" I just don't think that's what's going to be in the Mueller report. I do however, think we'll see much of that in the investigations of the southern district. I think there will be a lot of crimes uncovered that will send a few people to prison.
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I frankly would rather have the Mueller report come out as close as possible to November of next-year. It will have even greater impact as I cannot see how it will flatter Donald Dork in any way ...

PS: And I am beginning to think that was Mueller's intent in the first place.
 
Lafayette said:
Those are YOUR VALUES not "American values".

And, for the present, our values are showing that we haven't sufficient education in something that is archly important to any functional democracy. It's called Civics.

Any nation that can believe that - for more than two centuries - it is right and proper that the Electoral College should manipulate the popular-vote (by simply giving all votes to whoever obtains the majority) is beyond help.

The naked popular-vote throughout the world - other than the US - is (as should be) fully sufficient to demonstrate clearly the electoral preference of any Real Democracy.

America needs to revise the 12th Amendment by stipulating that the Electoral College must ONLY report to Congress the result of the TOTAL popular-vote ...
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SO you believe you represent American values? Can you tell me what neighbor helping neighbor means? Another person who believes the socialist state of California should elect the President, that doesn't show American values. The state with the most in poverty, the most homeless, the largest wage gap, the lowest quality of life is a beacon for you to focus on and work to create a country on those issues?

For some reason you believe a bureaucrat in D.C. is someone to handle social problems and not your state or local community. where did you develop this belief and attitude? Ever consider that if the federal Gov't didn't tax so much that the states would have more money to take over those responsibilities as they should?
 
Saladin4 said:
The Electoral College is a joke...Put in by Virginia Slave Holders to inflate their Representation by counting slaves as 3/5 of man....Why this outdated stupid decree has been allowed to stay is beyond me
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But not allowing them to vote!

Getting to where we are now in terms of a "democracy" was never historically straightforward. Manipulating the voting process started with the birth of the nation. The road to today's popular-voting was always arduous and circular in places:
*After five times in history since the 12th Amendment was passed in 1804 the Electoral College has warped the popular-vote (such that its loser wins the presidency) and
*Many still wonder why Gerrymandering (initiated in 1812) has not yet been found by a court of law to be an illegal manipulation of the popular-vote, or that
*Millions spent on campaigns can effectively "buy voters" because many voters are effectively manipulated by TV commercials. (Americans are the most watchers of the BoobTube in the world - 270 minutes a day (4.5 hrs) - see here.)

For edification: Voting Rights In The United States - Background
 
Conservative said:
SO you believe you represent American values? Can you tell me what neighbor helping neighbor means? Another person who believes the socialist state of California should elect the President, that doesn't show American values. The state with the most in poverty, the most homeless, the largest wage gap, the lowest quality of life is a beacon for you to focus on and work to create a country on those issues?

For some reason you believe a bureaucrat in D.C. is someone to handle social problems and not your state or local community. where did you develop this belief and attitude? Ever consider that if the federal Gov't didn't tax so much that the states would have more money to take over those responsibilities as they should?
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Blah, blah, blah.

There is not one ounce of sense in your remark above. It's all pompous fakery - like the "Socialist state of California".

All you know how to do is rebut with boring sarcasm. Not one bit of factual data is presented.

Go away. You are wasting bandwidth ... !
 
Lafayette said:
Blah, blah, blah.

There is not one ounce of sense in your remark above. It's all pompous fakery - like the "Socialist state of California".

All you know how to do is rebut with boring sarcasm. Not one bit of factual data is presented.

Go away. You are wasting bandwidth ... !
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You got that right......
 
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