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Thread: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

  1. #131
    The Antichrist Obscurity's Avatar
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypothetical View Post
    bzzzzt .. I'm goiong to go with, "it is a huge ****ing problem to the extent we can't imagine how bad corruption is in washington" for $10000000 alex.

    its the MAIN reason I voted for Trump, because we NEED outsiders who WANT to get things done in there to shake up the SWAMP.

    you guys think you have ahold of the head of the snake in Trump and you don't realize you're merely holding the ears of the rabbit the snake is trying to eat.
    Trump IS the swamp, are you daft? He's lock step with the establishment. Just because he talks in a way you like doesn't mean ****.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

  2. #132
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Trump IS the swamp, are you daft? He's lock step with the establishment. Just because he talks in a way you like doesn't mean ****.
    no, Trump is not /was not a career politician in Washington DC before he became president. You might be able to make a case that he is corrupt (not so much in my opinion) but he is not the SWAMP.

    and no I am not daft, thanks.

  3. #133
    Educator MauiMan's Avatar
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Actually I'd like to know what going-on in their heads, as well. This whole MAGA thing seems off, to me.
    This kind of thing, in my view, has been in American politics in the past. There have been politicians that seek support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument. Trump can pull a visceral response out of some people. He’s tapping into what some people already believe and want—not by rational argument, but by emotional reaction.
    “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” — Professor William T. Kelley, Wharton School of Business. (Emphasis is Dr. Kelley’s)

  4. #134
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
    Most of it I don't think will run into double jeopardy, in particular the charges of mortgage fraud and falsifying of state documents, which can easily carry 5-10 years.

    What most people worried about a pardon are missing is this: Manafort's word doesn't matter any more to prosecutors. So, he can't damage Trump unless he has physical evidence of a crime. That means Trump is free to let him stay in jail and count the days, and so don't be surprised if he does that.

    Remember, impeachment is 65% political, and pardoning Manafort would hurt Trump's political standing.
    The feds decided long ago that they could charge someone in federal court for the same crime they had already been convicted of in a state court.

    They didn't charge them with the federal offense so it isn't double jeopardy. Different courts, same criminal act.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  5. #135
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Why are you OK with career white collar criminals profiteering like this?
    Why are you ok with the judicial branch targeting citizens of the republic for political reasons?
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    You people are my problem. You’re a major component of what’s wrong with this country.
    It's more important to be morally right than factually correct - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

  6. #136
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    No, just seems a bit repetitive.
    Better to repeat the truth than to repeat a lie. Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    You people are my problem. You’re a major component of what’s wrong with this country.
    It's more important to be morally right than factually correct - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypothetical View Post
    I wouldn't say that.
    Of course you wouldn't, you voted for the bastard and now reality, if you do maintain a modicum of honesty, really bites.

  8. #138
    Educator MauiMan's Avatar
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypothetical View Post
    no, Trump is not /was not a career politician in Washington DC before he became president. You might be able to make a case that he is corrupt (not so much in my opinion) but he is not the SWAMP.

    and no I am not daft, thanks.
    Yes, Trump is not “the swamp”. But he promised to “drain the swamp”. Ironically, he is draining the swamp indirectly—Manafort and Stone have been swamp creatures for decades. Indeed, Manafort is arguably one of the creators of “the swamp”.
    “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” — Professor William T. Kelley, Wharton School of Business. (Emphasis is Dr. Kelley’s)

  9. #139
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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    I'm appalled by New York's politicized prosecution of Manafort, for heavens sake -mortgage fraud!? I'm sure there are other ancillary charges and that all of this is wrongful and should be prosecuted, but I also think there's a lot more of this going on than gets prosecuted. Mortgage fraud is a crime in which the intent is to materially misrepresent or omit information on a mortgage loan application in order to obtain a loan or to obtain a larger loan than could have been obtained had the lender or borrower known the truth. Now then, how likely is it that when applying for a mortgage the borrower will try to enhance the value of his property? I'd expect this would be natural, fix it up, clean out the yard, repair anything obvious, what about the defects that can't easily be corrected, could you park the car close to the wall in the garage that has a crack so the appraiser doesn't notice? "Materially misrepresent" refers to actual conduct, a statement or some writing from Manafort with specific falsity must be shown, I suppose they've got something and that it probably has something to do with "encumbrances" (loans, liens, other mortgages, the order of priority for other creditors...) that sort of thing. Some of this stuff is rather complicated, not really obvious, specialized practice among lawyers.

    I don't know about the facts or allegations from this New York indictment, I presume it was adequate enough to satisfy the court, and likely involved some substantial sum, but my impression is that everyone trying to get a mortgage is likely to make every effort to enhance the value of the property being mortgaged, I doubt everyone goes so far as to materially misrepresent facts in order to defraud, but how precisely can one tell something is beyond what is permissible? If Manafort got a mortgage on his house he'd need to submit documents detailing his creditors so the lender could see if any had or could secure his debt with the property. Lenders are categorized and arranged in an order of priority, this is the sort of thing that goes on in bankruptcy proceedings (another field of highly specialized attorney practice). Would Manafort's guilt depend on evidence he identified some creditor's status incorrectly, in order to get a bigger loan? I'd expect this will require showing Manafort's intent to defraud, that he acted knowingly and intelligently with that aim.

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    Re: NY prosecutors announce Manafort indictment minutes after federal sentencing

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Ultra View Post
    I don't know about the facts or allegations from this New York indictment
    But you are appalled. No doubt that is a natural conservative reaction of a Trump supporter.

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