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Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

Fine, I award you a gold star for stubbornly and deliberately missing the obvious point to prevail in a debate on semantics! :applaud

So we agree, the behavior in THIS case cannot be squared with sincerely held religious faith, because it cannot be argued to be advancing god's will.

:2bow:

I don't draw conclusions about religious faith among people I don't know.
 
Again, if the underlying act isn't illegal and you define that to be "(looking out for their children)" then selling cocaine to fund college should also be pardoned, same with stealing cars, robbing banks - the ends justify the means. I don't agree!
You are now speaking nonsense.
An underlying act of drug sell/distribution is illegal and they would be charged with that.
In this case the underlying act is not illegal.
 
You are now speaking nonsense.
An underlying act of drug sell/distribution is illegal and they would be charged with that.
In this case the underlying act is not illegal.

They've been indicted on the "underlying acts" so the law and reality don't agree with your analysis. The courts and a jury or (or guilty pleas with the advice of very competent counsel) will ultimately determine if the charges were legitimate. If not, no need for any pardons. If pardons are necessary, the acts were by definition determined by the court system to be illegal. This isn't that hard.
 
They've been indicted on the "underlying acts" so the law and reality don't agree with your analysis. The courts and a jury or (or guilty pleas with the advice of very competent counsel) will ultimately determine if the charges were legitimate. If not, no need for any pardons. If pardons are necessary, the acts were by definition determined by the court system to be illegal. This isn't that hard.
Are you purposely playing obtuse?
The underlying acts were legal here.
 
Are you purposely playing obtuse?
The underlying acts were legal here.

No, they weren't legal. We know this because the feds indicted several people, and some have already pleaded guilty to crimes. :shrug:
 
iLOL no you don't. You said you "hope Trump pardons all the parents who were looking out for their children." They weren't "looking out for them" but bribing schools to accept their dullard kids who couldn't compete on the merits, and committing crimes in the process, and while doing so taking slots from more deserving applicants.

If he pardons them, he's memorializing plutocracy, rules for thee (the proles) not for me. Or perhaps you support the Golden Rule - he who has the gold makes the rules. There's nothing merit based about what the parents did.

It's true that the wealthy have other means to influence admissions, but you cannot support a merit based system while supporting pardons for parents who can't even get their stupid kids into college using those other, legal, levers like big contributions or connections or tutors or providing private school educations that spend 12 years preparing their kids just for this moment - applying to colleges.

Can you call it a merit-based system if it has other "side doors" besides this one? What about the high school star athletes who aren't academically prepared for college but who are nevertheless slotted in, for example?

"Liz Peek: College admissions scandal disproves claim that rich get whatever they want": Liz Peek: College admissions scandal disproves claim that rich get whatever they want | Fox News
 
And again.
I am speaking to the underlying acts of the Parents that were not illegal. Not the other people involved.

Fantastic! That will be great news to them and their lawyers. They can just refer to this thread and your excellent legal analysis (nothing) and the judge will throw out the charges and no need for Trump to pardon anyone for crimes they didn't commit and weren't (cannot be!) convicted of committing.
 
When the underlying activity is legal? Of course it is.

I spoke directly to the parents charged with mail fraud.
I suppose someone helping Russia sew discord wouldn't understand that.



What the **** are you babbling about in this post?

No, when the "underlying activity" is illegal, it's illegal. No idiot in this world thinks it's okay to commit a crime so your children can attend college.

That's a fact.
 
Fantastic! That will be great news to them and their lawyers. They can just refer to this thread and your excellent legal analysis (nothing) and the judge will throw out the charges and no need for Trump to pardon anyone for crimes they didn't commit and weren't (cannot be!) convicted of committing.

And again you show you have no clue as to what you speak.
Why do you bother if you are not going to follow what was actually said?
 
What the **** are you babbling about in this post?

No, when the "underlying activity" is illegal, it's illegal. No idiot in this world thinks it's okay to commit a crime so your children can attend college.

That's a fact.
So you refuse to acknowledge what is being spoken about.
Figures.
Like I already said; I suppose someone helping Russia sew discord wouldn't understand that.
 
So you refuse to acknowledge what is being spoken about.
Figures.
Like I already said; I suppose someone helping Russia sew discord wouldn't understand that.

Why are you babbling about Russia in a thread about Americans bribing their childrens' way into college? I'm not Donald Trump. I don't have Russia on my mind when posting about Americans.
 
Why are you babbling about Russia in a thread about Americans bribing their childrens' way into college? I'm not Donald Trump. I don't have Russia on my mind when posting about Americans.
Your babbling tells me you know exactly to what I refer.
 
Your babbling tells me you know exactly to what I refer.

I'm not the one who is off topic. That's you. This thread isn't about Russia. So if you're saying that I know you're off topic, you would be correct.

Maybe you should read the OP. It isn't about Russia.
 
Can you call it a merit-based system if it has other "side doors" besides this one? What about the high school star athletes who aren't academically prepared for college but who are nevertheless slotted in, for example?

No, it's not a merit based system. But that person was hoping for pardons for the parents who bribed and cheated their kids into schools, while simultaneously claiming to support a merit based system. Those positions are 180 from each other.

Furthermore, at least athletics are merit based. The only problems are those sports that only the rich participate in and so effectively reserve a few dozen prime slots from the ranks of elite prep schools that offer those 'sports.'

"Liz Peek: College admissions scandal disproves claim that rich get whatever they want": Liz Peek: College admissions scandal disproves claim that rich get whatever they want | Fox News

The article starts with a straw man. The claim isn't that "the rich get whatever they want" every time, in all cases, no matter the facts, but that the system is heavily rigged in favor of the rich, that rich kids start at 2nd or 3rd and the rest of the kids start at home plate. And then she proves the actual argument, which is nice I guess...

From the article:

Are college admissions policies perfectly egalitarian? No. Successful high school athletes, legacies and numerous other groups get special treatment. But there are also a growing list of schools with admissions policies that are “need-blind” and others that today provide students from low-income families a full four-year ride.

It's a neat trick to conflate admissions based on athletic talent, which is merit based, to legacy admissions, which is NOT. I read that 14% of Harvard admissions are legacy based, worth about 160 points on the SAT. That would have been nice when I applied - from pretty good to the elite levels, Ivy League, scholarships! Too bad my dad went to a state school... :(

Are there persistent advantages held by the wealthy? Yes. They send their children to the best schools they can, they provide their kids with tutors to help boost test scores, and they can sometimes help their offspring get useful internships. And the very well-heeled can attract the attention of college development officers with sizeable donations to colleges. Those are among the perks of success [aka wealth].

Yes, the perks of wealth that rig the playing field in favor of wealthy kids. That's precisely the objection, versus the straw man she started with.

I don't get why (some) 'conservatives' are so intent on licking the boots of the wealthy. In the author's case, understandable because she was a partner in a Wall Street firm so she's talking about her friends and associates, likely herself. But if you're not in the 1% or 1/10th of 1%, and if you believe in a merit based system, this case is very simple - it's abhorrent, and what it reveals is only a small part of the overall problem of unequal opportunity in this country.
 
I'm not the one who is off topic. That's you. This thread isn't about Russia. So if you're saying that I know you're off topic, you would be correct.

Maybe you should read the OP. It isn't about Russia.
iLOL I am quite aware of what the topic is and what you are doing.
It is why you continue to deflect with babble.
 
iLOL I am quite aware of what the topic is and what you are doing.
It is why you continue to deflect with babble.

iLOL if you knew what the topic was you wouldn't be posting about Russian discord. Save the rubbish and lies for tonight's Trump Fan Club meeting.
 
What the **** are you babbling about in this post?

No, when the "underlying activity" is illegal, it's illegal. No idiot in this world thinks it's okay to commit a crime so your children can attend college.

That's a fact.

Yeah, I can't figure it out either. The underlying activity was, he said, watching out for your kids, which means selling cocaine is OK if you use the proceeds for schooling. But that's not OK. So apparently the perfectly legal underlying activity is something other than what the parents and kids did in this case, the legal ways, not the things they DID do which were illegal. If they'd done something ELSE, it would have been legal. Or something.

But we both know you can't win an endurance battle here with that person. :2razz:
 
Yeah, I can't figure it out either. The underlying activity was, he said, watching out for your kids, which means selling cocaine is OK if you use the proceeds for schooling. But that's not OK. So apparently the perfectly legal underlying activity is something other than what the parents and kids did in this case, the legal ways, not the things they DID do which were illegal. If they'd done something ELSE, it would have been legal. Or something.

But we both know you can't win an endurance battle here with that person. :2razz:

If I can't come up with the tuition for son #3, I'll just rob a bank. I should get away with it, right? That's just watching out for my kid!
 
The article starts with a straw man. The claim isn't that "the rich get whatever they want" every time, in all cases, no matter the facts, but that the system is heavily rigged in favor of the rich, that rich kids start at 2nd or 3rd and the rest of the kids start at home plate. And then she proves the actual argument, which is nice I guess...

Exactly!


Here we have a system where rich kids who DO have access to the best high schools and access to the best college preparation tutors (charging as much as $200 per hour) which have given them already a considerable advantage over other regular competitors, and they STILL need an ADDITIONAL advantage to enter a university. I cannot put this on the same level with the poor kid which uses sports to enter a university even though I have stated it clearly in this thread earlier that I am also against the US system of college sports which has nothing to do with academic at least merit!
 
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What the public know is the grades Trump wasn't among the top academic performers in his class. His name is conspicuously absent from the listed names of students who graduated with honors. He thus was not the "excellent student" he claims to have been.
  • Was Trump really a top student at Wharton? His classmates say not so much

    e864ba84-2332-42ff-a3b0-1224333eea95.sized-1000x1000.png

Someone with a degree in economics thinks that trade deficits result in one country being "ripped off" at the expense of another. You know trump did not write his own papers or take his own tests. He can't even tweet in a gramatically-correct fashion.
 
iLOL if you knew what the topic was you wouldn't be posting about Russian discord.
I spoke to you helping Russia sew discord by your bs replies.
That is about your replies, not Russia, and clearly you dislike that I am pointing it out. Go figure, huh?





Yeah, I can't figure it out either. The underlying activity was, he said, watching out for your kids, which means selling cocaine is OK if you use the proceeds for schooling. But that's not OK. So apparently the perfectly legal underlying activity is something other than what the parents and kids did in this case, the legal ways, not the things they DID do which were illegal. If they'd done something ELSE, it would have been legal. Or something.
:lamo And again you show you know not of what you speak even though I continually have pointed that out.
The underlying activity was legal. What do you not understand about that? Do you really not understand the difference between legal and illegal? Do you not understand what the legal activity the press was speaking about? That is not about illegal drug distribution.
That underlying legal activity (which was them looking out for their kids) is exactly why I hope the President pardons them for the mail fraud they were charged with.
 
Someone with a degree in economics thinks that trade deficits result in one country being "ripped off" at the expense of another. You know trump did not write his own papers or take his own tests. He can't even tweet in a gramatically-correct fashion.

Oh, don't get me started. Much that man says makes anyone who did wonder whether he ever read the textbooks for his courses.....in the 8th grade.
 
People here seem to care to bicker.. more than to critically think in "terms of principles".... some are so busy trying to justify the acts of these people, and others spinning the process... until they find a means of acquiescence within their minds..

Some don't want to and simply can't accept they are not of the premium status they have long deluded themselves to believe based on skin (it will rattle their whole groomed in concept of their lives)... and still others have the ingrained worship and mentality to defer themselves to the submissions of the wealthy, as if they submit to serfdom ideology... still others hold on to the long desired aims and acts that promoted a system of white nationalism of wealth white man dominance...... with limited conceptual understanding of what is Democracy and the Principles of what it is, and why it was established... that knowledge purely escapes them "completely".

Many... seem to have no concept of the principles of the establishment and the stand and stature of the Democracy, and why and how it designed its Monetary System based on Capitalism... which was NEVER to be of any factor of supporting nor promoting " Plutocracy" and surely NEVER to accept the allowance nor to adopt a mentality of acquiescence unto, or of Plutocratic Agenda to promote itself to Usurp Democracy.

Thus so the spin ... becomes a circle of "drama fest" antics.... driven by the variables mentioned above!.

Many should truly take time and "SLOWLY" read "The Declaration of Independence", and then come to understand how and why The Constitution was Constructed and Drafted as it exist and pay "very close attention and give understanding of what and why" the Preamble was preceding the following content of The Constitution.

Civics Education is Desperately Needed in America.. !!!!!

The principle of Laws that has brought this case is based in these very elements of respect by legal process for and of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and supported by the Justice System which serves to protect against such acts.. in this particular case... of plutocratic madness.
 
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