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Thread: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I've read in several articles that some of the parents were eager for their children not to know that they were greasing the skids for them.
    If you read the court documents, you'll happen upon some of the exchanges the parents had with their co-conspirators. Some of that exchange indicates some parents expressly sought solution options that obscured from their kids their contrivance to get the kids into "this or that" institution.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    From "Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal":

    Dozens of people have been charged in a nationwide college admissions cheating and athletic recruitment scheme, federal officials announced Tuesday.

    U.S. Attorney Andrew E. Lelling said 50 people have been charged in the alleged scheme, including 33 parents who “paid enormous sums” to guarantee their children’s admission into elite schools.

    Prominent entertainers, business owners and college coaches are implicated in the scandal that involves boosting SAT scores and bribing college administrators, according to the criminal complaint.

    Prosecutors say parents paid admissions consultant William Singer, of Newport Beach, Calif., $25 million from 2011 through Feb. 2019 to bribe coaches and administrators to label their children as recruited athletes to boost their chances of getting into schools.

    According to information provided by FBI/DoJ officials in the press conference aired live on CNN, the parents, on average, paid between $250K and $400K for Singer's services. (I can't find the live coverage online, only an article.) The maximum sum spent was ~$6M.

    The NY Post reports that one parent paid $500K to have "their two daughters designated as recruits to the USC crew team — despite the fact that they did not participate in crew — thereby facilitating their admission to USC." Other parents paid to have an associate of Singer's to obtain a given SAT exam score.



    What I find most astounding about this cabal of college entrance corruption is that it appears a fair quantity of the parents who participated in it spent sums that, were they done the way wealthy folks have for ages ensured their academically mediocre kids admission to prestigious institutions -- by making a generous donation -- they'd have spent about the same sum and not be facing prosecution.

    I mean, really. If one's got half a million or more to "blow," donate it to help fund a teaching award, endow a chair or help renovate a wing or hallway or something. The school will admit one's child in return.
    I agree—it makes no sense. It makes me wonder what else these parents cheated on in their lives to make them think this is a viable way to get their children admitted to a good school. It’s weird. How about this instead: pay for decent tutors and kick your kid in the butt to study.

    What a terrible message this sends to their children. I suspect this is the kind of crap that got Trump into school. His behavior and knowledge reflects it.
    “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” — Professor William T. Kelley, Wharton School of Business. (Emphasis is Dr. Kelley’s)

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    It would be hard to believe that a student that couldn't get in on their own could then magically become smart and a good student to get the grades to get the diploma honestly.
    ???

    Undergraduate study just isn't that hard. The only things that make college any harder than high school are the pace of learning and that one must do it on one's own (nobody is going to mollycoddle a low performing student to help them improve their performance).

    In some ways it's easier because much of the "silly stuff," the minutia, that high school teachers care about college profs don't.
    • For instance, in history, it rarely matters that one knows dates, but it always matters that one knows "this" occurred before or concurrently with "that" and that both happened as part of "such and such" a movement/period in history.

      Similarly, though it's efficient to remember all those kings and queens' names, if one can't keep all those Charles, Phillips, Henrys, etc. straight, one'll do just as well by writing:
      "In the 16th century's last score, the Spain and England's monarchs engaged in a protracted yet unofficially declared war to variously secure religious primacy and sovereignty, respectively, as well as to protect their trade revenues. Unsurprisingly given that all affairs of state in those days amounted to family feuds, Portugal, France, and Holland were eventually drawn, mainly for commercial reasons though ostensibly, for the sake of moral high ground and to engender fervor and favor, too for religious ones, into the contretemps..."

      From there one can expound on the various battles and treaties, and alliances, and trade skirmishes, etc. If one doesn't remember this or that royal's name, but one demonstrates a solid command of what transpired, why, what led to it, what resulted from it, no prof is going to dock one a grade for not expressly mentioning Henry VIII, Bitsy I, Mary I, Phillip II or Phillip III. They won't because the names of the people don't matter, but the countries and the politics, cultural movements and trade among them is what matters. (One's more likely to lose points for using the passive voice than for using an equivalent for a monarch's name.)

      "Mrs. Ninth Grade Teacher," on the other hand, will give one the vapors for mixing up or not remembering the names of all those monarchs who have the same friggin' name -- or God forfend, one not realize that Henry VI of England was the same person as Henry II of France -- save for the Roman numerals at the end. (Phillip II of Spain was another who had a bunch of titles including King of Portugal, Duke of Milan, and King of Naples and Sicily, and because his wife was the regnant Queen Mary, he was also England's king and she Spain's queen.) It's a wonder any adult, much less a child, can keep all that crap straight, and yet that's among the silly **** middle and high school history teachers care about.


    But I digress....

    One doesn't need to be that smart or good a student to pass (earn a C) baccalaureate-level college classes, and aside from "with honors" graduates, everyone's credential is the same: bachelor's in "this or that." Only folks who look at a student's transcript will know whether the student's degree was earned "by the skin of his teeth."
    Last edited by Xelor; 03-15-19 at 03:34 AM.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Fair. But seems that the marketplace for STEM ideas is paying better.



    Of course they will.

    Their views are going to be framed from their own little reality-free bubble of academia; from their safe spaces, safe from opinions and positions that have the temerity to differ from theirs; their safe spaces where any opinions and positions that don't toe the liberal / progressive / academic line are actively suppressed sought to be destroyed. Yeah, there's no telling what sort of 'ideas' are going to come forth from this 'disconnected from the realities of life' that the majority of people face, and successfully deal with on a day to day basis. Yeah, no telling at all. Something like the NGD is highly likely.
    Oops. Already happened.

    This latest scam has uncovered what was deeply sought to remain covered and hidden, namely that higher education these days, especially in the humanities, has turned from actual education to indoctrination as well as social networking to serve those 'beautiful people' (totally ugly on the inside) for their life long benefit.

    Bring back the Socratic Method.
    Red:

    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    The part of this that is getting forgotten about is that in some cases people were paid to take entrance exams or complete the requirements in place of the kid.

    What should be done with those kids if they are now in the school?
    Do any colleges/universities actually still have entrance exams?

    The closest thing I know of to them is the evaluative alumni interview some schools require. (AFAIK, only private colleges/universities and military academies require them.)

    Perhaps you and I think of entrance exams differently? I think of them as the school-specific exams colleges and universities developed and administered to applicants. It's been a very, very, very long time since any school I know of did that.

    Red:
    That's easy: expel them.


    Other:
    In 1965, Harvard admitted 1,340 freshman students out of an applicant pool of ~6,700. In the years since, the size of the freshman class has increased by only 46%, even as the number of applicants has ballooned by 537%. Thus what I think folks are forgetting, or perhaps utterly disregarding to begin with, is that at elite schools, and especially the Ivy League:

    The former gets much attention when events like "Varsity Blues" come to light, yet that elite schools bend over backwards -- all having dispensed with awarding merit-based scholarships -- to find ways to make it possible for non-wealthy kids to attend. Acquiescing to admitting students whose families openly make huge donations is one of the necessary evils, so to speak, that makes that possible.


    • Brown University: Of 1,613 freshmen, 43% received need-based grants. (average award: $42,109)
    • Cornell University: Of 3,180 freshmen, 44% received need-based grants. (average award: $39,787)
    • Dartmouth College: Of 1,112 freshmen, 48% received need-based grants. (average award: $46,917)
    • Harvard University: Of 1,660 freshmen, 56% received need-based grants. (average award: $47,053)
    • Princeton University: Of 1,338 freshmen, 62% received need-based grants. (average award: $46,208)
    • University of Pennsylvania: Of 2,350 freshmen in fall 2015, 45% received need-based grants. (average award: $42,150)
    • Yale University: Of 1,364 freshmen, 51% received need-based grants. (average award: $50,359)
    • [Source for the above]

    Other elite schools, particularly private ones, are much the same:

    Williams has one of the most generous financial aid programs in the country, thanks to generations of gifts from alumni, parents, and friends. It allows us to award more than $50 million a year in financial aid to more than half of all Williams students. Our financial aid program is based entirely on need, and we meet 100 percent of every student’s demonstrated need.
    -- Williams College statement about its financial aid program/policy

    Quite literally, those gifts from wealthy folks, gifts that also allow their own kids admission, are also what allows, as you can see from the above, about half of elite-school student bodies to be comprised of non-wealthy students.

    Does that exculpate shenanigans like "Varsity Blues?" Of course, it doesn't. That charade went too far.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by dobieg View Post
    Sure.

    But it's seems like we're splitting hairs when someone can make a donation to a college to get their kid in and that's a perfectly acceptable form of bribery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I think we're discussing whether or not that is "perfectly acceptable".
    Red:
    See the "Other" section of post 315.

    It is "perfectly acceptable," provided the contribution is made "in the light of day." It's just that the people who benefit from it either don't care to acknowledge it or they don't realize they're benefitting from it.


    Other:
    Frankly, much of the acrimony about "Varsity Blues" seems little but more piling-on of the "masses" who like to rail against financial elites and "The Establishment."

    The chicanery of "Varsity Blues" is unquestionably wrong. The notion that wealthy people, in return for their generosity, get their kids into elite schools isn't something to fuss over.

    Just who do you think would enroll at elite schools if wealthy people stopped donating lavishly to them? Rich people's kids, because nobody else could afford to go, and the schools wouldn't have endowments to fund modest earners' attendance.

    Well, we've "been there and done that." That was the composition of elite schools' student bodies prior to about the 1970s. That it was is why they were and remain elite.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    All that is good and relevant commentary.... but... when considering what is the socialite impact... which results in cases and situations to elevate people to high position, who result to make poor decisions which impact, city, state, nation and global elements, both economically and more importantly the societal challenges which becomes resultant of poor quality individuals who have skirted the 'ethics' and the principles of what is domestic civility and civic progress, for the pursuit of wealthy chases and personal notoriety for the sake of status.

    There is no aversion to one becoming to gain wealthy, but wealth alone should not be the goal, nor should the goal be about personal notoriety for the sake of fame as a vain self glorification, or the pursuit of status for the sake of vain acclaim.

    If one by their "work" and their "contribution" become noted, then it by the good of their contributory excellence which benefits and promote both civic and civil progress for "society".... If one gains a high status, let that status be based on the matter of contribution as an ongoing higher level of advancing our civic and social systems. In doing so... for what benefits the people, also improve the economics of a society, its systems and its general civic and civil society.

    Legacy accessibility may well have its places, when those who get the benefit of legacy based accessibility, through the achieved demonstrations of their contributor works through their invested interest and productive capability and ability and the exercise of that capability and ability, which benefits civic, civil, society, and adhering to the ethics which advance the society by honorable acts and efforts which culminate to progress society, be in civic, civil, and monetarily and in the organizations of regulatory governance, in the support, promotion and the strengthening of what is the democratic principles that our society is based within and upon.

    One can go back and look at the system of historical societies that sprang for the principles which established the Monarchy, The core premise behind the existence of such, was for the protections, the advancement and the cultural and civic developments and maintaining civil accord among the population.

    Society outgrew the need for "Monarchy" when it established "Democracy" which adopted the principles which were of the nature that Monarchy pursued and established, but not to be led by a "king" or a Queen" but by "THE PEOPLE".... through the system of Representative Governance, through Democratic Elective processes, which established "one man, one vote".. Giving the power to the people, on the basis of "majority" determinations as to what proceeds and what is established, how its administered and what it administration addressees which benefits the whole of society.
    In the system of Democracy, it was no longer a system where all power was dispensed by Kings and Queens upon members of the court. WE THE PEOPLE, was established by the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence, that inferred and conferred equality of person as individual, to every citizen.
    Thus so... the Bastardization of this process, by those who seek to use wealth and title, as if to still lust for a system of Monarchic Structure, has been and continues to be a demonetization of and against Democracy, In such madness, the wealth holders have pursued for themselves a stature and promotion of selves as if they are of a Royal Court .... This is a GRAVE affront against Democracy!!!! It has led to perversions of and within our system of governance, from every level, city, state, nation and sought to use the same premise of agenda, to go about the world, promoting the old ideals of "imperialist dominion" in foreign lands. Damaging both Domestic stability of Democracy, while bringing a systemic damage to International Relations and a "imperialist agenda" into the processes of damaging Diplomacy.

    To not see this is to be lost in the elements on a minute level, and not understand the global impact that is being represented by this form of monarchical based usurpation of the principles in and of which Democracy was founded. This is the greater and grave damages that is being done by the wealthy, upon and against the premise, principles and functions of Democracy.

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    The part of this that is getting forgotten about is that in some cases people were paid to take entrance exams or complete the requirements in place of the kid.

    What should be done with those kids if they are now in the school?
    I personally think those kids should be removed from the schools. They need to take the exams again, this time with a proctor to ensure no malfeasance, and if their scores are in line with the school's requirement, then the school should reconsider them for enrollment.

    In the real world of business, if we are competing for a job that requires an examination (and many do), and it turns out that we cheated in some way, like having someone else take the online exam, then any company worth its weight would immediately terminate our employment.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    If you read the court documents, you'll happen upon some of the exchanges the parents had with their co-conspirators. Some of that exchange indicates some parents expressly sought solution options that obscured from their kids their contrivance to get the kids into "this or that" institution.
    https://www.debatepolitics.com/break...post1069814326 (Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal)

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    The EXPOSURE of this malice is a very good thing for Democracy... It hits at the heart of how "wealth is abused to promote itself as if its has a monarchical power", and promotes and pushes all the mad ideals as that which Imperial Processes were based in and upon.
    Let not the spins of drama blind any from this overt moment of awareness being made Nationally and Internationally present to the masses. There is no defense that can suit and validate by any principles which respects Democracy for the acts of "bastardizations" which have been exposed. Let it be the step forward to expose the malice and madness which has attacked and assaulted Democracy for Centuries and Decades. Acts that stand as principle treason against everything that Democracy was designed to negate..of monarchical principles and its damaging aims to usurp the basis of the Declaration of Independence.

    It's long been time for people to learn to see the "bigger picture" and not distract themselves into acquiescence!!!!

    Over 100's of years, the advancement of educational competency has brought our society through the gains of technology, to now be able to expose what has long been buried in systems that once had prohibition that prevented people in masses from exposing the historical malice's which have long been damaging to Democracy and abusive to the system of Capitalism true principles of being the monetary system to support a Democracy as Democracy was designed and outlined in the Declaration of Independence.
    We've spend Centuries being immersed in the a system of Monarchical Imperialist Agenda, by a system that bastardized Democracy for the promotion of a White Nationalist Agenda, controlled and dominated by the wealthy, who have long sought to establish themselves as if to be a Monarchical Ruling Elite... !!!! In doing so, they have engaged Treasonous Act's against every principle that was the driving forces in and of the establishment of American Democracy and become abusive of the system of Capitalism as a Monetary Model, for the sake of using the pursuit of wealth and wealth accumulation as of to proclaim themselves as select members of a Monarchical Court.
    These same types have used that agenda to pervert out Congress, and institute Lobbyist by the use of wealth, to usurp and buy away the voice of the people and the stand of the vote that convey's that voice. thus so... it has been the hell and havoc that has damaged "American Democracy" and all the principles that was set forth to be established and maintained by the Declaration of Independence. They have used it to pervert the Bill of Rights, to give exemption and Monarchical level advantage to the wealthy, as in the use of money to buy away the stand of "Justice".

    The Damages are Grave!!! IF this does not Awaken the Masses... it becomes an even greater damage and danger to everything Democracy stands to represent.

    We have no Kings and No Queens, We have no Princes and Princesses... and in the principles of Democracy, No Amount of Money can infer nor confer such status on any Citizen within American Democracy. If we acquiesce to such 'bastardizations" of Democracy... then we engaged the aiding and abetting of Treason against the system of American Democracy
    Last edited by RealityNow; 03-15-19 at 08:25 AM.

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