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Thread: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    From "[URL="https://tinyurl.com/y68cymgg"]
    Dozens of people have been charged in a nationwide college admissions cheating and athletic recruitment scheme, federal officials announced Tuesday.
    The people making the bribes have too much power to get in trouble from the courts. I'm betting minor fines all around, effectively pocket change for these people.
    Jeez, did you do really do something that stupid? You were as Dumb As Donald!

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    Dont you think people should go to jail for this?
    I don't know that a punishment beyond ignominy is warranted if the school in question is a private one.

    I mean, really. What exactly has one done? Get one's kid admitted to a school whereat s/he can't keep pace with his/her classmates who legitimately earned their admission.

    Ss someone who used to recruit prospective management consultants from undergraduate and graduate programs, when I spoke with a student, I could tell within five minutes whether the student before me was innate bright, of normal intellect but clearly put in the effort to be very well prepared for their interview, simply a very able "square hole filler," of mediocre acumen and motivation, etc.

    Discerning that is the whole point of such interviews and the questions asked during them because as a consulting principal, I already knew damn well that, with rare exception (mostly the kids who'd worked as consultants prior to pursuing their MBA), they didn't know "pea turkey squat" about consulting and what skills contributed most to one's thriving (making partner/principal in about 10 years, give or take a couple). I don't care what anyone thinks, one simply cannot sit in a one-on-one interview with someone who's expert in their field and BS them and think they don't know one's just tried doing so.1

    Thus when choosing between, say, a UMCP candidate who adroitly demonstrated in his interview that he was a fine fit for our firm and the industry and a "just good" candidate from, say, Wharton, that s/he was a Wharton student was irrelevant.


    Note:
    1. Some interviewers will have the magnanimity to subtly let an interviewee know they're aware they're being BS'd and that it's in the candidate's best interest to desist with that approach. Others will just let the candidate keep "digging one's grave," so to speak.

      It's the same with teachers, particularly college professors and instructors. From time to time I'd have students who'd write answers "worthy" of an "Oscar" or "Pulitzer," but not for a "Clark Medal" or "MacArthur Fellowship" and that either (1) had nothing to do with the question/topic about which they were supposed expound and/or (2) that was a very creative but wrong interpretation of the principle being tested. When that happened, I'd just write "drama" or "English lit" and a smiley face in the margin. Why? Because their creativity impressed me even as their econ mastery did not.
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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    This is a huge story. A scam that involves a number of elite schools all over the country. Fifty charged last time I counted but there is likely more to come. Charges were brought up on parents, coaches, administrative examiners and at least one university administrator. Can you imagine someone being bribed to set it up that someone else would take the SAT/ACT tests in place of your child? Or have someone in place to change the answers on your child's tests to give them a better showing? Parents were told to go as far as getting a note from a doctor claiming their child had learning disabilities such as dyslexia to allow them to take the test alone for a longer period of time and the person overseeing the test is the one that was bribed to change the wrong answers. Or coaches who knew darn well a kid didn't have any great sport skills but were bribed to push for their acceptance using fake documents of their great assets to join an array of sports teams. It all started with a guy named Rick Singer which set up a fake charity to hide the exchange of cash. No student has been arrested but I wonder when it is all said and done if they will be kicked out.'Operation Varsity Blues:' Affidavit in support of criminal complaint

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Good question.

    I believe in the rule of law, but in this case the "rule of law" has been pissed on for as long as there has been an USA...so the practice has been accepted by society.

    So it is a bit pathetic going after these people for something large parts of the 1% have been doing forever.

    Now that they are doing it..a large fine based on income and community service. No reason to clog up American prisons with more people who should not be there along side rapists and similar.

    But again it rubs one the wrong way when these people pay the so called price and others who clearly did the same thing..go free. I mean many of them have buildings named after them on campus and you ain't gonna tell me that was done out of the kindness of their heart....
    Red:
    Do you know what law the participants are charged with violating? The law most of the defendants are charged with violating is conspiracy to wire and/or mail fraud. Some have been charged with conspiracy to commit racketeering.
    • Mail Fraud
      Mail fraud occurs when the U.S. Mail is used in furtherance of a criminal act. In order for a defendant to be convicted under 18 U.S.C. 1341 for committing mail fraud, the follow elements must be satisfied:
      (1) the defendant must have been engaged in a scheme to defraud;
      (2) the scheme must have involved material misstatements or omissions;
      (3) the scheme resulted, or would have resulted upon completion, in the loss of money, property, or honest services;
      (4) the defendant must have used of U.S. mail in furtherance of scheme to defraud; and
      (5) the defendant used or caused the use of U.S.mail.
    The racketeering charges have been levied against the organizers and administrators of the scheme, not against the beneficiaries of it.

    The short is that for many of the defendants, that they used the US mail -- not because they "connived" to get their kid admitted to a college -- to coordinate their conduct is why they can charged.

    I don't know for sure, but I don't think "conniving" to get one's kid admitted to college is, on its own, illegal. I'm fairly certain that if a school learns that one did so, it'd expel the kid, but that's about all that'd happen unless perhaps the kid somehow cheated to obtain state or federal funds to pay for his/her tuition, room or board.
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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL hilarious... this has been going on for over a century and NOW they want to do something about it? For **** sake the guy in the White House got himself and his kids into "big" schools with bribes.....Bush Jr got in, and so on. It is common knowledge that the rich pay for their kids access to so called good schools regardless of test scores and in some cases actually pay said schools to give their kids good grades /wave Trump.
    I think the question we have to ask is if cheating is more prevalent now than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? I am not sure we know the answer.
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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    I thought liberals were all about fairness. I guess it only applies unless cheating benefits them.
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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post

    I mean, really. If one's got half a million or more to "blow," donate it to help fund a teaching award, endow a chair or help renovate a wing or hallway or something. The school will admit one's child in return.
    Not always.

    My friends dad tried to get him into the prep school i attend. He offered a donation and was told no. Of course that was in 1967.
    The more I get to know people the more I realize why Noah only let animals on the boat.

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    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    This is a huge story. A scam that involves a number of elite schools all over the country. Fifty charged last time I counted but there is likely more to come. Charges were brought up on parents, coaches, administrative examiners and at least one university administrator.

    Can you imagine someone being bribed to set it up that someone else would take the SAT/ACT tests in place of your child? Or have someone in place to change the answers on your child's tests to give them a better showing? Parents were told to go as far as getting a note from a doctor claiming their child had learning disabilities such as dyslexia to allow them to take the test alone for a longer period of time and the person overseeing the test is the one that was bribed to change the wrong answers. Or coaches who knew darn well a kid didn't have any great sport skills but were bribed to push for their acceptance using fake documents of their great assets to join an array of sports teams.

    It all started with a guy named Rick Singer which set up a fake charity to hide the exchange of cash. No student has been arrested but I wonder when it is all said and done if they will be kicked out.'Operation Varsity Blues:' Affidavit in support of criminal complaint
    Red:
    Well, I can now. LOL Prior to today's indictments and arrests, the notion wouldn't have crossed my mind.


    Fortunately, my kids worked hard to earn their grades and admission to the schools they attend(-ed). It's a good thing they did because even though we're comfortable enough that money for school/college isn't an issue, they knew damn well I wasn't about donate their way into the school of their choice. If their being "legacies" and having good grades and notable extracurriculars wasn't good enough to earn them admission to XYZ, they just weren't going to matriculate there, and that was that. Their performance was strong enough that I knew they'd gain admission to some good school and I didn't, frankly, care what good school they attended. (I didn't really want them going to school in "tornado alley" or on the West Coast, but otherwise, I was indifferent about where they went.)

    Why any parent who's of a mind to spend the kind of money some of those parents did would do so in a criminal manner rather than just using the "old school" method of donating enough directly to the school, and, in turn, trusting that the school would repay the favor, is beyond me. I mean, really. What does that take? One or two visits to the appropriate office (usually the president's office or a unit of it as fundraising is the main role of college/university presidents) to discuss, in person, making a contribution. One can be sure that when one's kid's application arrives, someone will bother to check to see whether the kid's parents (or someone) has made a material donation, and make no mistake, a quarter million dollars is material. (One's kid would have to be grossly unqualified to attend the school for it to take more than that.)
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
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  9. #19

    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Good question.

    I believe in the rule of law, but in this case the "rule of law" has been pissed on for as long as there has been an USA...so the practice has been accepted by society.

    So it is a bit pathetic going after these people for something large parts of the 1% have been doing forever.

    Now that they are doing it..a large fine based on income and community service. No reason to clog up American prisons with more people who should not be there along side rapists and similar.

    But again it rubs one the wrong way when these people pay the so called price and others who clearly did the same thing..go free. I mean many of them have buildings named after them on campus and you ain't gonna tell me that was done out of the kindness of their heart....

    Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
    Are you aware that these bribes were done under the guise of charitable donations and used to defraud the us gov as well as cheating many qualified applicants out of the education that they were qualified to receive and had their place sold out from under them?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

  10. #20

    Re: Actresses, prominent business owners charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    I don't know that a punishment beyond ignominy is warranted if the school in question is a private one.

    I mean, really. What exactly has one done? Get one's kid admitted to a school whereat s/he can't keep pace with his/her classmates who legitimately earned their admission.

    Ss someone who used to recruit prospective management consultants from undergraduate and graduate programs, when I spoke with a student, I could tell within five minutes whether the student before me was innate bright, of normal intellect but clearly put in the effort to be very well prepared for their interview, simply a very able "square hole filler," of mediocre acumen and motivation, etc.

    Discerning that is the whole point of such interviews and the questions asked during them because as a consulting principal, I already knew damn well that, with rare exception (mostly the kids who'd worked as consultants prior to pursuing their MBA), they didn't know "pea turkey squat" about consulting and what skills contributed most to one's thriving (making partner/principal in about 10 years, give or take a couple). I don't care what anyone thinks, one simply cannot sit in a one-on-one interview with someone who's expert in their field and BS them and think they don't know one's just tried doing so.1

    Thus when choosing between, say, a UMCP candidate who adroitly demonstrated in his interview that he was a fine fit for our firm and the industry and a "just good" candidate from, say, Wharton, that s/he was a Wharton student was irrelevant.


    Note:
    1. Some interviewers will have the magnanimity to subtly let an interviewee know they're aware they're being BS'd and that it's in the candidate's best interest to desist with that approach. Others will just let the candidate keep "digging one's grave," so to speak.

      It's the same with teachers, particularly college professors and instructors. From time to time I'd have students who'd write answers "worthy" of an "Oscar" or "Pulitzer," but not for a "Clark Medal" or "MacArthur Fellowship" and that either (1) had nothing to do with the question/topic about which they were supposed expound and/or (2) that was a very creative but wrong interpretation of the principle being tested. When that happened, I'd just write "drama" or "English lit" and a smiley face in the margin. Why? Because their creativity impressed me even as their econ mastery did not.
    Your doing a lot of dancing to skirt the issue.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

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