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An unvaccinated boy got Oregon’s first tetanus case in 30 years — treating him cost over $800,000

Gondwanaland said:
So, you want to take kids from their parents for 'negligence' when it suits you, but when a parent is negligent and takes their children on a perilous trek across the desert and hires a drug dealing coyote to guide them who is about as likely to take them as he is to shoot them in the head, use them as drug mules, rape and kill them, or sell them into sex slavery, then all of a sudden government taking kids from their parents is bad.
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Thread win!

Remember the Democrats claiming the government killed a child in their care - ranted on and on to this day - when IN FACT the parents has LIED in writing claiming the children was healthy hiding that the child was sick - and by the time Border Patrol realized the lie and got the child to ER it was too late to save the child.

The Democrats SO liked that outcome that they insist EVERY child with illegal immigrants be treated the same way - left with parents you grotesquely endangered their children's lives because apparently the more illegal immigrant children who die the happier the Democratic Party becomes.
 
Illegal immigrants and their children are proven to be bringing in almost every contagious disease there is - including incurable - and the Democratic Party is A-OK with that. I doubt ONE illegal immigrant parent has brought innoculation/vaccination records for themselves or their children with them.

Let's not pretend the Democratic Party and most Democrats cares one iota about the spread of contagious diseases due to lack of vaccinations.
 
ClaraD said:
Not when it suits...me taking children on a trek like that is to save them from certain death and most of them cannot afford a coyote....not that you would understand what that is like sitting in your living room never missing a meal in your life.

The caravans are people who do not have the money to make the journey paying 10k, they are people in danger. Before making stupid comments try walking in their shoes, there is a difference in circumstances you cannot change and outright neglect of your children by deliberately making them susceptible to deadly diseases like measles and polio.
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But the kids aren't being saved from certain death. Most of the refugees are economic refugees. The caravans are known to be infested with rapists which only shoots your argument in the foot further.

But thanks - one type of negligence you stand in political solidarity with is fine, and ones you don't aren't fine. The double standard and hypocrisy is quite clear for all to see.
 
joko104 said:
Thread win!

Remember the Democrats claiming the government killed a child in their care - ranted on and on to this day - when IN FACT the parents has LIED in writing claiming the children was healthy hiding that the child was sick - and by the time Border Patrol realized the lie and got the child to ER it was too late to save the child.

The Democrats SO liked that outcome that they insist EVERY child with illegal immigrants be treated the same way - left with parents you grotesquely endangered their children's lives because apparently the more illegal immigrant children who die the happier the Democratic Party becomes.
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I don't recall anyone saying the child was healthy....the complaint was that BP refused to provide medical care to a sick child in a timely manner, thus causing the child's demise.
 
joko104 said:
Illegal immigrants and their children are proven to be bringing in almost every contagious disease there is - including incurable - and the Democratic Party is A-OK with that. I doubt ONE illegal immigrant parent has brought innoculation/vaccination records for themselves or their children with them.

Let's not pretend the Democratic Party and most Democrats cares one iota about the spread of contagious diseases due to lack of vaccinations.
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false, we are far more in danger by diseases of those who are unvaccinated in this very country than illegal immigrants. All Latin American countries have higher vaccination rates than we do...most especially Mexico.
 
Gondwanaland said:
But the kids aren't being saved from certain death. Most of the refugees are economic refugees. The caravans are known to be infested with rapists which only shoots your argument in the foot further.

But thanks - one type of negligence you stand in political solidarity with is fine, and ones you don't aren't fine. The double standard and hypocrisy is quite clear for all to see.
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Actually they are. My brother in law was shot at a total of 72 times in Honduras when they killed him and three others...had he listened to me and left, he would be alive today....lucky for me the family listened to me when I said to get the hell out of there and did so....three days later their house was invaded by the death squad looking to eliminate them so there would be no witnesses to what occurred. They were gone and already in Mexico when that happened. Today, they hold asylum...and with them came a 1 year old, my nephew and a 7 year old, my niece. We didn't use coyotes, we applied for a visa for them to be able to transport to where I was and petition for asylum in the US. Mexico even indicated due to my citizenship it would be preferable for the family to file in the US....I lived in Matamoros for nearly a year while that process happened. So, until you have been there, don't try making judgements because my niece and nephew would have been dead today had I not got them the hell out of Honduras. I left as well in 2011 and lost everything I owned and have much less here in the US. I owned my own business in Honduras, had a 2 story, 5 bedroom home, 3 cars, a property in Olancho, with cows and cacao trees and mahogany trees and 4 other city lots I had acquired...yet, I still had to walk away from all of it to save my life. Now, I live in a tiny home, own 12 acres and have 2 cars and work for someone else....so which do you think is preferable to a sane person? I already owned all the other...this I am just acquiring again..yet, my life meant more than any damn material things so did my family in the end. When you have walked in their shoes, then and only then do you get a seat at the table.
 
dcsports said:
At LESS than cost? AT cost? At cost PLUS REASONABLE profit? At cost PLUS AS BIG A PROFIT as they think that they can tack on?



A very cynical person could probably take some of your position, although I have no idea why you are getting so aggressive with me, when I'm attempting to explain the reality of how it works.

In reality, there is a certain amount of inflation that goes on in the charges. Unfortunately, it's part of how the system developed, and is currently a necessary part of doing business. Contracts and insurance codes have built up around it. No, providers don't expect people to pay the full balance - they expect insurance companies to negotiate a rate, and self pay patients to pay a rate - yes, costs plus a reasonable profit margin (which in most cases is rolled right back into capital purchases).
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Would you like to try reposting that so that it makes some sense?

I can't be bothered to go back and sort through all the posts to figure out which are my words and which are your responses - especially since, in one case you appear to be responding to yourself.

Thanks.
 
joko104 said:
Illegal immigrants and their children are proven to be bringing in almost every contagious disease there is - including incurable - and the Democratic Party is A-OK with that. I doubt ONE illegal immigrant parent has brought innoculation/vaccination records for themselves or their children with them.

Let's not pretend the Democratic Party and most Democrats cares one iota about the spread of contagious diseases due to lack of vaccinations.
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Have you read "When Outbreaks Go Global: Migration and Public Health in a Time of Zika"?

I have and the findings

  • ... their rates of infectious disease exceed those of travelers generally ...
  • ... the vast majority ... acquired the infection while abroad ...
  • ... population health conditions are generally worse abroad ...
  • ... the thousands of arriving ... turned out to be infected ...

will absolutely SHOCK and HORRIFY you.

I recommend that you give that article VERY close and repeated study.
 
ClaraD said:
I don't recall anyone saying the child was healthy....the complaint was that BP refused to provide medical care to a sick child in a timely manner, thus causing the child's demise.
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I don't know where you heard that false claim. The parents' form specifically stated the child is healthy. Border Patrol has 135 officers specifically for transporting illegal immigants to hospitals and over 10,000 currently are hospitalized. No one has been refused medical care.
 
First of all, just because someone gets vaccinated, it doesn't mean they won't get sick (or won't get anyone else sick, for that matter). It's a false premise because they end up getting sick anyway. It may REDUCE the chances, but very little, and in most cases it's ineffective. If someone has a weak immune system, then a vaccination might work better for them. It doesn't mean they're cured for a year, but it'll help. As far as vaccinations causing autism and/or other problems, I don't have a clue. It may or may not. I guess it depends on the person and what they have already. I never been given the flu shot nor any other vaccinations, and my dad is a doctor with 35+ years experience. He doesn't believe in them. Neither does my mom. If you want to be vaccinated and/or make sure your kids are, go ahead. It might or might not work. A better solution is to make sure they get plenty of exercise outside (or in, depending if the weather's bad) and making sure they're eating properly. Take cold, flu, or allergy medicine when needed, but make sure to do the other 2. Best things you can do to help prevent illness.

Lastly, there should be NO federal law to dictate getting a vaccination. That is one of the DUMBEST things to put in the law books. If a hospital, clinic, or retirement home says to get a vaccination before you work for them, that's completely different because that's a private institution and they come up with their own rules (whether you like them or not). But to have the government dictate vaccinations, regardless if there are people out there that could have an allergic reaction to them (they're out there, and I know a lot of people that are allergic to them), is just wrong. For those who think there should be a law for all kids to have vaccinations, how about get your kids exposed to germs, the elements, and dirt that's outside or in? Their immune system builds if they're exposed to all that, and they're less likely to get sick. That's just common knowledge. If you're not doing that, you're abusing your kids. When they get older, their immune system will breakdown, and if they don't have a don't have a strong immune system now, a simple cold could be lethal. A vaccination is useless if nothing is being done on other fronts and it could be too late if they're not building their immune system.

So you take that idea of a federal law forcing parents' kids to get vaccinated and shove back up the $#!t shoot you pulled it from, because, regardless if vaccinations are effective or not, I and many others refuse to give the federal government any more power than what it already has. Here's my tip to you: START BEING PARENTS, KEEP YOUR KIDS HEALTHY, AND STOP LOOKING TO GOVERNMENT TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS AND DO THEM ON YOUR OWN (lazy @$$es)!
 
joko104 said:
I don't know where you heard that false claim. The parents' form specifically stated the child is healthy. Border Patrol has 135 officers specifically for transporting illegal immigants to hospitals and over 10,000 currently are hospitalized. No one has been refused medical care.
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It took them 8 hrs to get a critically Ill child to the hospital...that's a delayed response
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Would you like to try reposting that so that it makes some sense?

I can't be bothered to go back and sort through all the posts to figure out which are my words and which are your responses - especially since, in one case you appear to be responding to yourself.

Thanks.
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A very cynical person could probably take some of your position, although I have no idea why you are getting so aggressive with me, when I'm attempting to explain the reality of how it works.

In reality, there is a certain amount of inflation that goes on in the charges. Unfortunately, it's part of how the system developed, and is currently a necessary part of doing business. Contracts and insurance codes have built up around it. No, providers don't expect people to pay the full balance - they expect insurance companies to negotiate a rate, and self pay patients to pay a rate - yes, costs plus a reasonable profit margin (which in most cases is rolled right back into capital purchases).
 
dcsports said:
A very cynical person could probably take some of your position, although I have no idea why you are getting so aggressive with me, when I'm attempting to explain the reality of how it works.

In reality, there is a certain amount of inflation that goes on in the charges. Unfortunately, it's part of how the system developed, and is currently a necessary part of doing business. Contracts and insurance codes have built up around it. No, providers don't expect people to pay the full balance - they expect insurance companies to negotiate a rate, and self pay patients to pay a rate - yes, costs plus a reasonable profit margin (which in most cases is rolled right back into capital purchases).
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"capital purchases" or CEO compensation? Health insurer CEOs see some significant pay bumps in 2017
 
Herkamer63 said:
First of all, just because someone gets vaccinated, it doesn't mean they won't get sick (or won't get anyone else sick, for that matter). It's a false premise because they end up getting sick anyway. It may REDUCE the chances, but very little, and in most cases it's ineffective.
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When the chances fall from 250 per 100,000 to 0.3 per 100,000, your "but very little" tells me that there is "very little" (to use your term) that you do not know about the subject.
 
dcsports said:
The subject is hospitals, not health insurance companies.
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Indeed it is.

Of course the fact that the insurance companies DO have somewhat deeper pockets than the average individual and that the hospitals tailor their bills to what the potential payer can theoretically pay, means that there is absolutely no connection between "insurance companies" and "inflated bills" - right?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Indeed it is.

Of course the fact that the insurance companies DO have somewhat deeper pockets than the average individual and that the hospitals tailor their bills to what the potential payer can theoretically pay, means that there is absolutely no connection between "insurance companies" and "inflated bills" - right?
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That's seriously mixing issues on this topic. I would suggest starting a separate thread.
 
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