• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Paul Manafort to learn sentence on tax, bank fraud charges — live updates

Jack Hays said:
Fairer to say he did better than some, worse than others.
Click to expand...

Well, it's fair enough I suppose, but if you put your mind to crafting a more worthless, banal "analysis" you'd be hard pressed to do better than that. There's actually nothing there to agree or disagree with other than in the entire history of the court system, in the U.S. (presumably), Manafort's sentence isn't the absolute longest or the absolute shortest ever handed down in any court. So, congrats on that!
 
JasperL said:
Well, it's fair enough I suppose, but if you put your mind to crafting a more worthless, banal "analysis" you'd be hard pressed to do better than that. There's actually nothing there to agree or disagree with other than in the entire history of the court system, in the U.S. (presumably), Manafort's sentence isn't the absolute longest or the absolute shortest ever handed down in any court. So, congrats on that!
Click to expand...

I did not intend to analyze, only describe.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Just my guess Paul Manafort is 69 years old and had never been in trouble before. Like I said just my guess.
Click to expand...

Never been trouble because he has skated above the law. He has been convicted of a series of crimes that occurred over years. The "never been in trouble before" argument is typical used for a single instance crime, not long-standing corruption. Face it. Manafort has been a career criminal. He should have received a sentence as such.

The "outrage" over this is that the judge chose to radically depart from sentencing guidelines. While I am a big believer that most sentencing of criminals in the US is far too long, the guidelines exist to provide consistency. His radical departure from the guidelines means he levied an inconsistent sentence. As justice is rooted in consistency, this was not justice.

The de facto justice, however, is that 3 years (rounded down to time served), plus the sentence he is likely to get for crimes related to the Russia investigation (call it another 3-5 years), is a fairly long time for a 69 year old man. Moreover, the relatively light sentence will make pardoning him even more of an outrage, making the pardon less likely.
 
Last edited:
He’s likely to die in jail, has another sentence to be imposed in a few days, probably longer, maybe not concurrent, by an Obama judge.

Manafort was persecuted and prosecuted under a false premise that animated Mueller and his “investigatory” pursuits; that Manafort’s Ukrainian lobbying was a backchannel to Putin for election collusion.

Manafort did lobby for Ukraine and he failed to register as a “foreign agent”, he billed millions for this lobbying (but didn’t actually get paid fully). His Ukrainian lobbying goes back to 2004 and involved ‘rehabilitating’ Yanukovych. He got the former Ukrainian strongman to learn English and cultivate improved ties to the EU, Manafort was behind Yanukovych’s initial pursuit of “free association” of Ukraine with the EU. Putin pushed back hard, banned imports from Ukraine and shut down the gas pipelines. Yanukovych backed down and called off the “free association” dealings (which led to the Maidan protests and his ouster).

I’ve noted all of this “Mueller barking under the wrong tree” before, how Putin wouldn’t turn to the architect of Ukraine’s “free association” with the EU for a Trump connection. Mueller, msm and the critical left connected the wrong dots; Trump to Manafort, him to Yanukovych and the latter to Putin, ergo Putin to Trump. This is why Manafort was investigated. While it has been proven Manafort lobbied for Yanukovych, didn’t properly register, concealed income for his efforts, evaded taxes thereby and defrauded banks inflating income, there’s nothing on that backchannel.

Or as Trump would tweet; “no collusion!”
 
Saladin4 said:
Still an old white man with soft hands probably won't do well in prison......
Click to expand...

Depends on where he goes. Chances are that he will not end up at a maximum security prison. More likely it will be a federal prison with minimum security. It will be a country club compared to where violent criminals go. it will likely be easy time spent reading books and awaiting commutation of his sentence.
 
Gina said:
Amen. I'm not one to ever have agreed with that kind of statement in the past, but what else are we to take from the judge's sentence? Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

What's the problem? The guidelines were ludicrous to begin with. Up to 40 years? Many convicted murderers get lesser sentences and are back on the streets in as little as seven years. White caller criminals do not deserve life sentences.
 
haymarket said:
Somehow, someway, I suspect its all arranged already for him to go to a country club.
Click to expand...

In the federal prison system, that will likely be the case. As federal prisons go, violent criminals will not have easy time, however white collar criminals go to a country club with guards. There is no valid reason to house white collar criminals with rapists, robbers and murderers.
 
ObamacareFail said:
In the federal prison system, that will likely be the case. As federal prisons go, violent criminals will not have easy time, however white collar criminals go to a country club with guards. There is no valid reason to house white collar criminals with rapists, robbers and murderers.
Click to expand...

Sure there is - justice.
 
haymarket said:
In big cites across America there are black and latino kids who hold up a candy store and will get a longer sentence that Manafort did.

Equal justice for all. Right. :doh:roll:
Click to expand...

You are making it up as you go along. "Kids" convicted of robbery crimes do not go to prison. They go to reform school or half way houses if they get any incarceration at all. They are given multiple second chances. To be charged like adults, they have to commit very violent crimes like rape or murder.
 
ObamacareFail said:
You are making it up as you go along. "Kids" convicted of robbery crimes do not go to prison. They go to reform school or half way houses if they get any incarceration at all. They are given multiple second chances. To be charged like adults, they have to commit very violent crimes like rape or murder.
Click to expand...

Legal minors in many states can be charged as adults and are all the time. This will help educate you

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-...diction-and-transfer-to-adult-court-laws.aspx

When Juveniles Are Tried in Adult Criminal Court | Nolo

Juveniles Tried As Adults: What Happens When Children Go to Prison - [FKD]

btw - my example - holding up a candy store - is a violent crime.
 
Last edited:
trixare4kids said:
If the above was the reason, cruel and unusual punishment which helped to deteriorate Manafort's health, it makes sense to me now why he was given a short sentence. Thanks for sharing, vesper.
Click to expand...

The amusing aspect is that the libruls consider the death penalty as cruel an unusual punishment for murderers, but have no empathy for white collar criminals.
 
trixare4kids said:
I can't accept a big FU to Mueller if this is truly why the sentence was only 47 months. IOW, I can't forgive bias in the courtroom.
I think his sentence was reduced probably because he was put in solitary confinement by another biased judge for nine months previously causing Manafort's health to go down hill.
I hope that's the real reason for Ellis ignoring the guidelines for these types of crimes.
Click to expand...

In the long run, I think most of Muellers high profile convictions will either be overturned on appeal, sentences commuted, or pardoned. Mueller has been drunk with power, not just in court, but in arrests as well. For white collar criminals, a swat like response to arrest an old man is massive overkill. for Manafort it was an early morning door busting swat raid. it went even further when Roger Stone was arrested simply over perjury. There were something like 17 assault vehicles used and even a couple amphibious units in the river near his house. You would think they were going after a Mexican cartel leader or a terrorist on the FBI's top most wanted list.
 
That’s what Mueller is known for, this is his “brand”.
 
trixare4kids said:
Standing by for sentencing!


Paul Manafort to learn sentence on tax, bank fraud charges — live updates



Manafort is in the courtroom wearing a green jumpsuit and is in a wheelchair. His counsel is asking for leniency because of Manafort's health problems.

What I find interesting are Judge Ellis's opening remarks where he made it clear that Manafort's charges have nothing to do with Russia, collusion, or the other conspiracy rhetoric that we are hearing about in the media.
The judge also tells the courtroom that Manafort is not being sentenced for anything related to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference.
Ellis said, "He is not before the court for anything having to do with colluding with the Russian government”

Live feed provided in the link above.
Click to expand...


~~~~~~
Hmm...., Will both John and Tony Podesta be next in conviction of the same things Manafort has been convicted of?

Feds ramp up probe into Podesta lobbying firm with ties to Manafort
Feds ramp up probe into Podesta lobbying firm with ties to Manafort
In September, Manafort admitted to directing Mercury and the Podesta Group to lobby in the US on behalf of a Ukrainian political party and Ukraine’s government, then led by President Viktor... In New York, Mueller’s referral prompted a fresh look at the lobbying firms of Washington insiders Tony Podesta and Vin Weber, who have faced scrutiny for their decisions not to register as foreign agents for Ukrainian lobbying work directed by Manafort.
 
ObamacareFail said:
In the long run, I think most of Muellers high profile convictions will either be overturned on appeal, sentences commuted, or pardoned. Mueller has been drunk with power, not just in court, but in arrests as well. For white collar criminals, a swat like response to arrest an old man is massive overkill. for Manafort it was an early morning door busting swat raid. it went even further when Roger Stone was arrested simply over perjury. There were something like 17 assault vehicles used and even a couple amphibious units in the river near his house. You would think they were going after a Mexican cartel leader or a terrorist on the FBI's top most wanted list.
Click to expand...

LOL, that's completely made up.
 
haymarket said:
His public comments during the trial mark him as a Trumpkin.
Click to expand...

Trumpkin? If that is not a prime case of TDS, nothing is. It is not healthy to hate anyone and everyone who did not vote for your idol crooked Hillary.
 
JasperL said:
LOL, that's completely made up.
Click to expand...

Nice try, however at least in the Roger Stone case, the media was there and backs it up. Or did CNN make it up?
 
Jack Hays said:
No. Please see the link in #287.
Click to expand...

This from the judge who banned any mention of Russian collusion at the start of the trial. He stacked the deck from the beginning.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Trumpkin? If that is not a prime case of TDS, nothing is. It is not healthy to hate anyone and everyone who did not vote for your idol crooked Hillary.
Click to expand...

Yes - Trumpkins have a bad case of TDS. It's sad.
 
haymarket said:
This from the judge who banned any mention of Russian collusion at the start of the trial. He stacked the deck from the beginning.
Click to expand...

These charges weren't about collusion. Manafort could have been prosecuted on these charges even if DJT did not exist.
 
haymarket said:
This from the judge who banned any mention of Russian collusion at the start of the trial. He stacked the deck from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Russia had zero relevance to this trial. These crimes were committed years before Trump even run. There was no stacking the deck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom