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Nearly two-thirds of voters think Trump committed crimes before taking office, poll finds

haymarket said:
The American people disagree. And the votes prove it as 2.8 million more of them rejected Trump as president than rejected Clinton.

Trump is president for a variety of reasons, among them the Electoral College failing to do their job, the interference in the last month of the campaign by Comey, the Russian aid to Trump which is against the law, as well as Clintons own campaign errors and mistakes.
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Hillary could have won both the electoral college and the popular vote and settled this matter.

She did not win the electoral college because she ignored or took for granted some states that were vital to win the electoral college.

Until, The Constitutional process is used to change the electoral college to a popular vote. The popular vote complaint will remain a mute point.

In 2020 the next President will be elected via the electoral college as has all of the past Presidents until there is a Constitutional process to change that fact.

Roseann:)
 
yankintx said:
Did you the CPAC mob chant lock her up just last week? People in glass houses eh ?
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There's a bit of a difference between a crowd at a campaign rally hollering "lock her up!" and various congressional committees, a special prosecutor and various state attorneys general yelling "lock him up". Among other things, the former can't do it and the latter can.
 
Erod said:
In other words, you're defeated. That is what that kind of response ALWAYS means.

I accept your forfeiture.
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You defeated yourself as soon as you opened your mouth with that deflection instead of defending Trump.
 
CharisRose said:
Hillary could have won both the electoral college and the popular vote and settled this matter.

She did not win the electoral college because she ignored or took for granted some states that were vital to win the electoral college.

Until, The Constitutional process is used to change the electoral college to a popular vote. The popular vote complaint will remain a mute point.

In 2020 the next President will be elected via the electoral college as has all of the past Presidents until there is a Constitutional process to change that fact.

Roseann:)
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Actually it is now and always has been a critical complaint. Lincoln said that we are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Sadly, the EC is designed to allow a small number of elites to thwart and override the will of the people.

And even more sadly, the smaller states which normally go Republican giving that party an advantage, will not soon give away their advantage and agree to amend the Constitution getting rid of the EC.

So we have a situation where the Constitution itself has a mechanism which in the minds of many Americans renders the President illegitimate if he fails to win the popular vote.

That is a recipe for political disaster in a nation which is suppose to be a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
 
MrWonka said:
Irrelevant. Clinton is not running anymore. This thread is about Trump's crimes.



That's just isn't it? You know damn well that Trump has zero chance of winning another term running against any other candidate. Any candidate that Republicans haven't had 20 long years to spam with lies and make up stories about will mop the floor with Trump. So you have to make the election about Hillary whether really has anything to do about it or not.
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Well, there were many who laughingly on various news networks thought and said Trump had zero chance of winning the election he won.

In the 2020 Presidential election Hillary will be a nobody and her voice will hinder rather than help the Democrat Nominee, whoever that may be.

A two time loser for the Presidency voice is a mute voice no matter how much she roars to help A Democrat Nominee who wants to look like a Winner.

Trump will be focused on whoever the Democrat Party nominates to represent their party. Which party is that? The Democrat Party or The Democrat Socialist Party?

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
Well, there were many who laughingly on various news networks thought and said Trump had zero chance of winning the election he won.
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Yea, they seriously "misunderestimated" the power and numbers of the low intellect and morally bankrupt in this country.
 
Moderate Right said:
No charges were filed because the deep state was firmly in place, right down to Lynch meeting Bill Clinton on the airport tarmac.
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And yet when asked for proof of your claims you cannot produce any. Now back to the Topic, why so many Americans believe trump is a Criminal.....
 
prometeus said:
How did you come up with that?
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If, The Democrats succeed in actually removing Trump from office prior to the end of his current term in office via impeachment, Pence is the 1st in line to finish Trumps term.

Now, if they only get the kind of impeachment that happened to Bill Clinton. Trump would finish his term and Pence would remain the Vice-President.

Now, if the Dems accomplish a Nixon type impeachment and get Trump to resign... Then Pence finishes Trump term as President.

Now, if the Dems could take out Pence (not going to happen) Pelosi would be the next in line for President.

Roseann:)
 
haymarket said:
Actually it is now and always has been a critical complaint. Lincoln said that we are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Sadly, the EC is designed to allow a small number of elites to thwart and override the will of the people.

And even more sadly, the smaller states which normally go Republican giving that party an advantage, will not soon give away their advantage and agree to amend the Constitution getting rid of the EC.

So we have a situation where the Constitution itself has a mechanism which in the minds of many Americans renders the President illegitimate if he fails to win the popular vote.

That is a recipe for political disaster in a nation which is suppose to be a government of the people, by the people and for the people.
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Yea, keep pointing out the situation you and others don't like.

A situation requiring a Constitutional process that requires a high threshold of all of the states to agree to... altering the Constitution in favor of what some but not all citizens want.

I live in majority Democrat barely Republican California.

I am thankful for the smaller states being wise enough to save the U.S. from the dictates of the large states like California and New York and some of the other states that follow their lead.

You know the states that provided Hillary with the popular vote you and others keep mentioning as a good reason to alter the Constitution in favor of giving more power to those states to the detriment of the smaller states you and others would like to overpower to get your nominee in the White House.

You do understand that the smaller states people are included in the "We the People" of the United States of America.

The idea of the Electoral College was put in place to protect the people in the smaller states being overpowered by your popular vote desire which only benefits the larger states and the other states who follow their lead to the detriment of the people in the smaller states.

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
Well, there were many who laughingly on various news networks thought and said Trump had zero chance of winning the election he won.
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Yeah, they didn't realize how much racism there was in the USA. Turns out one of the leaders of the alt-right (rebranded White Supremacists), Steve Bannon, knew better, and had Trump go full out to get the support of the racists. It worked.

Ryan: Trump's comments 'textbook definition' of racism

Fox News, NBC, and Facebook pulled Trump's racist campaign

Trump's Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

Of course it's still Trump's "go to" campaign strategy, and judging by his support, it still appears to be working.
 
prometeus said:
Yea, they seriously "misunderestimated" the power and numbers of the low intellect and morally bankrupt in this country.
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Are you saying the low intellect and morally bankrupt in this country out smarted the highly intellectual and morally superior people in this country!!!

Maybe they aren't as highly intellectual or as morally superior as they think they are because they seriously misunderstood what they needed to get done in order to defeat someone like Trump!!!

Roseann:)
 
JustHanging said:
Yeah, they didn't realize how much racism there was in the USA. Turns out one of the leaders of the alt-right (rebranded White Supremacists), Steve Bannon, knew better, and had Trump go full out to get the support of the racists. It worked.

Ryan: Trump's comments 'textbook definition' of racism

Fox News, NBC, and Facebook pulled Trump's racist campaign

Trump's Midterm Closing Argument: Pure Racial Fear

Of course it's still Trump's "go to" campaign strategy, and judging by his support, it still appears to be working.
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Are you seriously using the racist joker Trump card as a debate Triumph?

That old card is so battered and worn out that you had to tape it back together to use it and FYI you should have used see thru scotch tape instead of duct tape to piece it back together cause all I have is your word that it's a racist joker Trump card for the win!:2razz:

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
Yea, keep pointing out the situation you and others don't like.
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The reasons I do not like it have been explained. But its NOT about my likes and dislikes. Its about a system that produces a president that sometimes (s in twice in the last five elections) goes against the principle of a government of the people, by the people and for the people. It produces a president who is rendered as illegitimate in the eyes of many Americans. That is bad for a democratic republic like ours and seriously erodes at public faith and confidence in the very system of government we have.

A situation requiring a Constitutional process that requires a high threshold of all of the states to agree to... altering the Constitution in favor of what some but not all citizens want.
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And that high threshold effectively changing the system as the smaller states who vote Republican will not give up any advantage that is perceived they have today. Its just not going to happen.

I live in majority Democrat barely Republican California.

I am thankful for the smaller states being wise enough to save the U.S. from the dictates of the large states like California and New York and some of the other states that follow their lead.
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Today you live in California. As you know, the days are long gone when the vast majority of Americas were Michiganders, or Texans, or New Yorkers, or Alabamanians, or Iowans or any other state which claimed their allegiance. Today a baby is born in Ohio, has its family move to Illinois for a few years, maybe then lives in Colorado for a time, goes to college in Texas, does advanced studies in Oregon, meets a spouse and they settle in New Mexico, change jobs a couple of times over the next thirty years and live in Florida and New York and Tennessee along the way. They retire and live in Arizona.

We no longer are as tied to states as we have been in the past. Today we are the USA and most people consider themselves Americans first.

We have to far that fact and accept that fact and our political institutions must reflect that changing reality.



You know the states that provided Hillary with the popular vote you and others keep mentioning as a good reason to alter the Constitution in favor of giving more power to those states to the detriment of the smaller states you and others would like to overpower to get your nominee in the White House.
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NO. I do NOT want to give any power to any state. I want the power too be with the American people regardless if they live in a big state or a small state or a village, town or city. I want all of their votes to have the same weight behind them and have no American with their vote counting more than any other citizen. And they only way you can do that is to abolish the EC.

You do understand that the smaller states people are included in the "We the People" of the United States of America.
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Yes - we the people. All the people regardless where they live at any given point in their life cycle.

The idea of the Electoral College was put in place to protect the people in the smaller states being overpowered by your popular vote desire which only benefits the larger states and the other states who follow their lead to the detriment of the people in the smaller states.
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Actually, that is not true. I would refer you to Founding Father Alexander Hamilton in his excellent Federalist Paper 68 who explains why we have the EC and how it was suppose to protect America. He said the greatest threat to America came from a foreign power trying to install a creature of its own control into our highest office. And he said the small elite EC members would protect against that.

In 2016, not only did the EC fail to do that, but there is not a single shred of evidence that they even attempted to try and do that in one single state. Not a one. here is a link to it
The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

Hamiltons words to the nation

Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union? But the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, with the most provident and judicious attention.
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Not one state did this when they met after the 2016 election. Not a one.

That was the Founders promise as how the EC would protect us in return for NOT having a direct citizen vote - and it has failed.
 
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Ikari said:
Like in general committing crimes? I mean, he's a sleazeball conman, of course he broke laws. But he's like the Clintons, we all know they did it, but can't really prove it in court.
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millions of american every day break some kind of law or statue or something else.
no one cares.
 
ludin said:
millions of american every day break some kind of law or statue or something else.
no one cares.
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I know some people who acted likey they cared about Hillary. Still do. Be serious.
 
CharisRose said:
If, The Democrats succeed in actually removing Trump from office prior to the end of his current term in office via impeachment, Pence is the 1st in line to finish Trumps term.

Now, if they only get the kind of impeachment that happened to Bill Clinton. Trump would finish his term and Pence would remain the Vice-President.

Now, if the Dems accomplish a Nixon type impeachment and get Trump to resign... Then Pence finishes Trump term as President.

Now, if the Dems could take out Pence (not going to happen) Pelosi would be the next in line for President.

Roseann:)
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You need a lesson in basic civics.
 
CharisRose said:
Are you saying the low intellect and morally bankrupt in this country out smarted the highly intellectual and morally superior people in this country!!!
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No, they are not capable of that. That however does not negate they win.

Maybe they aren't as highly intellectual or as morally superior as they think they are because they seriously misunderstood what they needed to get done in order to defeat someone like Trump!!!
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Even smart people make mistakes, but morally bankrupt is inexcusable and Trump supporters certainly are.
 
MrWonka said:
Yes. Yes, it does. It by definition means he's a bad president. That's the definition of corruption. Nobody is above the law, and you don't put a career criminal in charge of the greatest country in the world with access to nuclear weapons and expect it to go well. I don't give a flying **** whether you like one or two of his policies. Donald Trump is an immoral person and if you think he's a great president so are you.

The President sets the standard for a nation. If the President is allowed to commit blatant crimes for his own benefit then how can we tell any other person in the country they can't do the exact same thing?
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Odd I have read the Job Description of the President a couple times.

Technically all you said is your opinion and doe NOT apply to what the President is SUPPOSED to do.


The Constitution assigns the president two roles: chief executive of the federal government and Commander in Chief of the armed forces. As Commander in Chief, the president has the authority to send troops into combat, and is the only one who can decide whether to use nuclear weapons.

Synopsis
As chief executive, he enforces laws, treaties, and court rulings; develops federal policies; prepares the national budget; and appoints federal officials. He also approves or vetoes acts of Congress and grants pardons.

Consititution
Article II - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

Article II - U.S. Constitution
Section 2.
Section 3.

No one is Above the LAW. SO unless you CAN prove that he broke laws. Its opinion not facts.
Carreer Criminal is an Opinion NOT facts as he has never been charged and any other suits against him have been currently settled
Access to Nuclear Weapons is a concern. But the POTUS does not have a NON safety protocolled Red button at his finger tips to push at any time. There are procedures. so again Hyperbole Opinion.

President "Sets" Standards this is a MORAL statement that has NOT bounds by the constitution. WHILE it would BE NICE that the PRESIDENT DOES act like a Moral and Charismatics Representative (ALA Obama, he was GREAT!) He actuall has a JOB....Command the Military, Protect AMERICAN Citizens, Propose LAWS, Enforce Existing laws.

While WE DONT want Criminals per say running the show. He can still be a scumbag BUT fulfill the JOB description as required by congress and the Constitution.



SOOO

1) What LAW has he been charged with for breaking/
2) What Has he DONE OUT side of the POTUS job description AGAIN look at Article 2, Sections 2-4. When has he be CONVICTED of Such crimes, "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes & Misdemeanors"

So while I see your emotions. Your statements are NOT with the Job description nor the constitution. Many of the POLICIES offer by Trump have either passed or been rightfully and legally challenged by the power vested in congress. What Nuclear weapon abuse has he done? What Policy or LAW was enacted UNCONSTITUTIONALLY by TRUMP? (E.O. DACA circumvented constitutional Immigration law by provide temporary amnesty.)

Sad... the focus has be lost... and the JOB description is NOT to do the ACTUAL job. Its to just look good at doing the JOB, not actually doing it...... sad.
 
prometeus said:
You need a lesson in basic civics.
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And for some reason you didn't provide the basic civics lesson. Are you a lazy debater? Please provide your knowledge of basic civics to correct me. TIA

How the impeachment process works - ABC News

Note, I said if, The Democrats succeeded in actually removing Trump from office prior to the end of his current term...

That process would include...

According to the Constitution, at least two-thirds of the Senate has to concur to convict and remove the president from office. Once the president is removed, the vice president typically succeeds him or the normal course of the line of succession will be followed.

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
And for some reason you didn't provide the basic civics lesson.
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I am not here to teach you. You should have done that before posting and knowing how presidential succession works is basic civics.

Are you a lazy debater? Please provide your knowledge of basic civics to correct me. TIA
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The Speaker only becomes President IF BOTH the President and the Vice President are unable to fulfill the obligations of the office at the same time.
Your rant about impeachment is only further proof how clueless you are about your mistake.
 
prometeus said:
No, they are not capable of that. That however does not negate they win.

Even smart people make mistakes, but morally bankrupt is inexcusable and Trump supporters certainly are.
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Smart people learn from their mistakes.

So you find it acceptable based on your extreme moral superiority to judge a large group of people you have never met or know nothing about as being so morally bankrupt to the point that you know for a fact you can judge them as being inexcusable people?

Just how pure and innocent are you?

Roseann:)
 
CharisRose said:
Smart people learn from their mistakes.

So you find it acceptable based on your extreme moral superiority to judge a large group of people you have never met or know nothing about as being so morally bankrupt to the point that you know for a fact you can judge them as being inexcusable people?

Just how pure and innocent are you?
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As driven snow.
 
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