House Democrats unveil a sweeping 'Medicare-for-all' bill — here's what's in it

vanceen said:

Many people in the UK (where there is no "cost sharing" for universal health care) have private insurance. They get it not to mitigate costs, but to reduce waiting times and get a higher quality of service.

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NHS is not comparable to MFA. It's more similar to VA - and similarly crappy.

Greenbeard said:

The much-vaunted successor to H.R. 676 (which was around for over a decade) is here, after some delays. At first glance, the new bill looks a lot like the old 676, though they've lost the opportunity to keep using that bill number.

It's not clear what the source of the delay was or what decision(s) its authors were making. The bill essentially covers everything, including long-term care, for everyone with no cost-sharing or premiums and doesn't finance that spending at all. (Supposedly some sort of separate discussion document with funding options will be circulated in parallel.) That said, it's hard to know what exactly needs to be financed, since all spending decisions are also punted. We just know there will be some national health budget, hospitals and institutions of all sorts will be on budgets, and physicians will be paid off a fee schedule TBD.

I had it in my head for some reason that the goal this time was to get to legislation that could actually be scored by the CBO but clearly that was not the goal here. So I'm not sure what all the hubbub was about.

House Democrats unveil a sweeping 'Medicare-for-all' bill — here's what's in it

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Typical liberal. When something is failing, the answer is to double down on it. And never mind the cost. We;'ll get to that later.

We all know what ill-advised legislation can do, we've been living that dream for 8+ years now. I'm all for a new, different kind of healthcare system, but let's have the adults debate the measures, not some stupid politicians that are trying to score points off of the ill-informed among us, and we know those folks outnumber the informed by a large margin..

I think something that centers around trying to figure out the, nominal-ability-to-pay, Vs. sustainable approach, that won't bankrupt the entire industry and nation is a good starting point.


Tim-

Obscurity said:

One thing neither side discusses, for no reason, is the real savings for employers who will no longer be paying larger and larger premiums for health insurance plans. Additionally, all these people will no longer be paying co-pays, deductibles, prescription drug fees, etc.

It's a win for everyone except the health insurance industry. Billions would be saved nearly right away in cutting out this bloated and archaic structure of business.

End the ME wars and cut some funding to other nations and this should absolutely be doable. The republicans would do well to side with this plan. It is a must for the future of this nation.

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Since all those wars are also spending us into a hole, repurposing that money wouldn't really represent a savings in terms of debt...

The money needs to come from somewhere.

Premiums - from beneficiaries and their employers - can cover a lot of the cost.

I would be ecstatic to pay my current healthcare premiums but instead have Medicare-level service.

Obscurity said:

We have been affording these wars. It's been a priority for 18 years.

Yes, we can afford it. Let's ignore the wars. How about finally instituting a 3% speculative trading tax. Or, how about we simply end the Trump cuts on the richest people in this country?

Or, let's do this. End:

Iraq - Foreign Aid FY 2018 - $347.9 Million
Nigeria - FY 2018 - $419.1 million
Zambia - FY 2018 - $428.9 million
Uganda - $436.4 million
Tanzania - $535.3 million
Kenya - $639.4 million
Afghanistan - $782.8 Million
Jordan - $1 Billion
Egypt- $1.39 Billion
Israel - $3.1 Billion
$9.08 bn annual to JUST the top 10. Total USAID Is over $30bn for the 2019 budget year.

We can also cut some military funding. We are spending $892 billion this year for the military. The military does not need massive armies anymore. Strategical strikes using specially trained soliders in elite formations function just as well in a world weary of war. Our military budget is massively bloated and must be cut.

We absolutely can afford it, and not one cent ought to go overseas until every citizen here is cared for.

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You pretty much just proved that we can't afford it. You need to be realistic. Cutting all that aid to other countries? Will not happen. It just won't, ever. That one's out the window. Cut the military? To what, $500 billion? Not a chance. That's as in, never. Anyway, you are no where near the ballpark necessary to pay for this. Think $Trillions. What did the Democrats want to do a few years ago, print a few Trillion dollar bills? There you go, print a few of them. Money out of thin air, that's what you need.

TU Curmudgeon said:

On your last point, the BC version of "universal medical insurance" has three categories:

1. Permanent residents;
2. Temporary residents; and
3. Visitors.

If you are NOT in either Category 1 or Category 2 LEGALLY, then you are in Category 3.

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It is my understanding that private medical care insurance is still legal (and popular?) in Canada. The HR 676 M4A bill, however, outlawed private medical care insurance.

Obscurity said:

We have been affording these wars. It's been a priority for 18 years.

Yes, we can afford it. Let's ignore the wars. How about finally instituting a 3% speculative trading tax. Or, how about we simply end the Trump cuts on the richest people in this country?

Or, let's do this. End:

Iraq - Foreign Aid FY 2018 - $347.9 Million
Nigeria - FY 2018 - $419.1 million
Zambia - FY 2018 - $428.9 million
Uganda - $436.4 million
Tanzania - $535.3 million
Kenya - $639.4 million
Afghanistan - $782.8 Million
Jordan - $1 Billion
Egypt- $1.39 Billion
Israel - $3.1 Billion
$9.08 bn annual to JUST the top 10. Total USAID Is over $30bn for the 2019 budget year.

We can also cut some military funding. We are spending $892 billion this year for the military. The military does not need massive armies anymore. Strategical strikes using specially trained soliders in elite formations function just as well in a world weary of war. Our military budget is massively bloated and must be cut.

We absolutely can afford it, and not one cent ought to go overseas until every citizen here is cared for.

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That's hilarious, the medical sector is nearly $3 Trillion. That's not even going to come close.

Kal'Stang said:

Actually from the way its presented it will not have a second tier. Everyone will get the same amount of coverage, no co-pays, no premiums or deductibles.

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same **** unless you are the politicians and your doctor won't take it.
next they are going to have to price out the cost between families and single people.

So if you are a family you could easily get socked with a 30% hike in taxes.
as usual no logic or reason just appeal to emotion arguments and no way to pay for it.

Obscurity said:

Well, let me put it to you this way.

Why should we ignore the health needs of americans when we could pay for medicare for all americans by ending disastrous middle eastern wars, cut funding to states overseas that do not need it, and stop arming rebel groups across the world?

Why are you against caring for americans so we can continue policing a world that doesn't want it?

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you once again prove you have no clue what you are talking about.

347million for iraq according to your own source

3+ trillion a year for "free" healthcare.

how does the iraq war pay for healthcare again?
it doesn't even cover 10% of the cost.
it covers maybe 1% of the cost.

ttwtt78640 said:

It is my understanding that private medical care insurance is still legal (and popular?) in Canada. The HR 676 M4A bill, however, outlawed private medical care insurance.

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Australia has experimented with a two tiered system. It hasn't worked well.

Canadian Doctors for Medicare

Australia’s experimentation with two-tier health care should be instructive. In Australia, wait times in the public system increased in proportion to the increase in private, for-profit health care. The reason for this is simple: doctors simply moved from the public system to the private system, presumably in an effort to increase their compensation. Some doctors may have gotten richer, but the patients in the public system suffered.

Anthony60 said:

You pretty much just proved that we can't afford it. You need to be realistic. Cutting all that aid to other countries? Will not happen. It just won't, ever. That one's out the window. Cut the military? To what, $500 billion? Not a chance. That's as in, never. Anyway, you are no where near the ballpark necessary to pay for this. Think $Trillions. What did the Democrats want to do a few years ago, print a few Trillion dollar bills? There you go, print a few of them. Money out of thin air, that's what you need.

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Plenty of things can happen that get MFA paid for. 3% speculation tax for speculative trading.

Ending wars.

Cutting absurd levels of military funding.

You tell me why we need to have this much expenditure on the military.

OpportunityCost said:

That's hilarious, the medical sector is nearly $3 Trillion. That's not even going to come close.

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Which is overinflated nonsense, driven by predatory profiteering, absurd levels of pay for insurance clowns, etc.

ludin said:

same **** unless you are the politicians and your doctor won't take it.
next they are going to have to price out the cost between families and single people.

So if you are a family you could easily get socked with a 30% hike in taxes.
as usual no logic or reason just appeal to emotion arguments and no way to pay for it.

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You're paying almost twice what Canadians pay for healthcare (and most other Western nations), and you have poorer outcomes. So you already have the money available, tons of it, and you're wasting almost 1/2 of it. Does that really make sense to you?

Unless Americans are congenitally stupid and immoral, you will be saving money.

Kal'Stang said:

Before I support it I would like to hear how its going to be paid for. Also, what's been provided is rather broad without details. Sounds good...but just because it sounds good doesn't mean that its implementation and logistics won't suck donkey balls.

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I can't imagine this proposed idea being an easy transition either since you have an entire industry of middlemen between care givers and their recipients. It would almost be easier starting from scratch....well...kind-a-sorta.

JustHanging said:

You're paying almost twice what Canadians pay for healthcare, and you have poorer outcomes. So you already have the money available, tons of it, and you're wasting almost 1/2 of it. Does that really make sense to you? Unless Americans are congenitally stupid, you will be saving money.

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not really. i pay 275 bucks a month that covers everything.
I have excellent results and access to the best possible hospitals in the world.
i have access to the best doctors in the world.

so i get what i pay for.

I will gladly pay more if it means it doesn't take me a year to see a doctor.
I will gladly pay a bit more to have access to a drug that might save my life.

actually the US has some of the best results out there when you get rid of the non-medical nonsense they throw in there.
No we won't be saving money.

The only way to save money is to deny access to doctors,procedures, and drugs.

Sorry i value you my health. If i need a surgery i want it now or as quickly as possible.
not stuck in some queue until i am deemed worthy enough by some hack politician.

if i need surgery i call the doctor schedule it done.

Obscurity said:

Which is overinflated nonsense, driven by predatory profiteering, absurd levels of pay for insurance clowns, etc.

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You are seeking to inflate the amount of care received, who is covered and adding a multitude of government oversight and regulation. If anything its understating the cost. You don't have a clue what it is going to cost, at least I am smart enough to be concerned about how much it will really cost, I don't think you are even in the ball park.

ludin said:

you once again prove you have no clue what you are talking about.

347million for iraq according to your own source

3+ trillion a year for "free" healthcare.

how does the iraq war pay for healthcare again?
it doesn't even cover 10% of the cost.
it covers maybe 1% of the cost.

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You prove you're a partisan who is stalking me across threads.

Did I say singularly this would pay for it? No. I am saying there are areas we can cut that would pay for MFA.

You are irrational.

ElChupacabra said:

I can't imagine this proposed idea being an easy transition either since you have an entire industry of middlemen between care givers and their recipients. It would almost be easier starting from scratch....well...kind-a-sorta.

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it is the middlemen that have driven up the healthcare costs.
It is the charge master DB's in hospitals and drug purchase guys at drug stores.

they charge 1000% over what it costs for the item.

need a couple of screws for a broken ankle or wrist they cost 10 bucks a piece to the hospital
the charge master DB turns around and charges you 100 -200 for each screw.

Obscurity said:

You prove you're a partisan who is stalking me across threads.

Did I say singularly this would pay for it? No. I am saying there are areas we can cut that would pay for MFA.

You are irrational.

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Your the one making the crap arguments i am simply calling you out on them.
YOu don't want your arguments called out stop posting.

you stated the iraq war could pay for it.
it can't.

you previously said all wars could pay for it
it was proven to be wrong as well.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

There is no doubt that healthcare should be available to everybody, not just those privileged enough to afford it. However, having said that, getting there is going to be very tricky.....

1) How to pay for it? Getting corporations and billionaires to pay their fair share. But how much is fair? At this time, Amazon, General Electric, and other large corporations pay ZERO in taxes, due to the many loopholes available to them. That must change. They need to pay their fair share, but should not be overtaxed. I don't know where the line is on that, so I will leave it to others to discuss.

2) In getting the private sector out of the health insurance business, agents and their staff will lose their jobs, which will lead to higher unemployment.

3) In getting the insurance companies out of the healthcare business, their bottom lines will be affected, and that will negatively impact the stock market.

4) My wife and I earned our Social Security over a period of 50 years, but still pay close to 300 per month for our Medicare Part B. That's OK. We should pay our fair share too. But what about those who can't afford it? There should be exemptions for some people who are below the poverty line.

5) Prices should be set on drugs so that big pharma cannot rip people off. My wife takes Zyprexa. Our cost today is about 9 bucks per month. In the beginning, before Zyprexa went generic, our cost was 1,700 bucks per month. Yes, we were gouged, and that needs to end for everybody. But at the same time, drug companies need to recover the cost of developing those drugs. Again, where that line is I don't know.

There are more aspects I am sure I have not thought of, but you get the drift. Talking about universal health care is much different than actually implementing it. The devil is in the details. I have no doubt that, if everything was implemented all at once, we would be headed straight for a fairly severe recession. However, implementing universal health care on a piecemeal basis, one step at a time, is feasible. I would leave it to those who know better to lay out how that would be done.

Universal health care should be a right, but in the real world, it's just not as simple as that.

OpportunityCost said:

You are seeking to inflate the amount of care received, who is covered and adding a multitude of government oversight and regulation. If anything its understating the cost. You don't have a clue what it is going to cost, at least I am smart enough to be concerned about how much it will really cost, I don't think you are even in the ball park.

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Every other Western nation is able to provide healthcare for far less than the USA.

So are you saying that Americans are just too stupid and/or immoral to do what everyone else is capable of? If not, why couldn't the USA just pick a top system, and copy it?

danarhea said:

Universal health care should be a right, but in the real world, it's just not as simple as that.

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It is where I live. As it is in most Western nations. Why not in the USA?

JustHanging said:

Every other Western nation is able to provide healthcare for far less than the USA.

So are you saying that Americans are just too stupid and/or immoral to do what everyone else is capable of? If not, why couldn't the USA just pick a top system, and copy it?

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Because they pay for it through consumption and income taxes on their middle class far, far, far in excess of what the US pays.

ludin said:

not really. i pay 275 bucks a month that covers everything.

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I pay far less. As a country we pay far less.

I have excellent results and access to the best possible hospitals in the world.

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So do I.

i have access to the best doctors in the world.

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So do I.

so i get what i pay for.

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We get as much, but pay far less.

I will gladly pay more if it means it doesn't take me a year to see a doctor.

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I pay less and can see my doctor in a day or two if it's important, often the same day. So can everyone I know.

I will gladly pay a bit more to have access to a drug that might save my life.

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I pay less and have access to those same drugs.

The only way to save money is to deny access to doctors,procedures, and drugs.

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Nonsense. The rest of the Western World pays far less, and is not denied access.

Sorry i value you my health. If i need a surgery i want it now or as quickly as possible.

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So do I. Whenever I've needed surgery, I've gotten it. From some of the best surgeons in the world. Without a financial worry in the world.

not stuck in some queue until i am deemed worthy enough by some hack politician.

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Apparently they believe you're gullible enough to believe that nonsense. Are you?

if i need surgery i call the doctor schedule it done.

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You have to call the doctor? They call me.

JustHanging said:

It is where I live. As it is in most Western nations. Why not in the USA?

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I noticed you only quoted my last sentence, which is not exactly an honest thing to do, since that last sentence is based on the several paragraphs I posted to get to that last sentence.