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Lesbian couple turned away by Indiana tax preparer ...

Mongidig said:
Too most of us the accountants actions are extreme and not right. To the accountant his/her action is exactly right. How is the party that is so into acceptance so closed to this persons beliefs. This action is not going to cause us to go back in time in regards to rights of minorities. Lets start using common sense.
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What's religious about taxes? I mean even though I don't agree with a baker refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding at least they had a leg to stand on. There is nothing religious about taxes.
 
OK, I am ignorant on this topic. Is same sex marriage recognized for joint returns? Most state laws require you to file the same status as for the federal return. Seems to me the tax preparer is just protecting their license by not preparing an illegal tax return.

Am I wrong here?
 
Carjosse said:
It is a town of 1000, I doubt they have much choice. You are not willing to serve the general public you should not be in business.
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The county has 82K people. Plus... it's taxes. Finding a tax preparer is not a problem.
 
Lord of Planar said:
OK, I am ignorant on this topic. Is same sex marriage recognized for joint returns? Most state laws require you to file the same status as for the federal return. Seems to me the tax preparer is just protecting their license by not preparing an illegal tax return.

Am I wrong here?
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If the couple has gone through a "state recognized" marriage ceremony, then they are "married". The tax returns do NOT have separate "Straight Married" and "Gay Married" categories.

Seems to me that you're "reaching".
 
Lord of Planar said:
OK, I am ignorant on this topic. Is same sex marriage recognized for joint returns? Most state laws require you to file the same status as for the federal return. Seems to me the tax preparer is just protecting their license by not preparing an illegal tax return.

Am I wrong here?
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I imagine they are talking about federal income tax (and possibly state also). However, it's one box - married or not.

I did have a fleeting thought about the legality of the marriage. If, for example, they were married in a non-official ceremony, as was often the case with gay couples prior to the Supreme Court's ruling on the matter. It would make sense that if they lacked a valid marriage license, an accountant wouldn't be able to sign off on the return. However, I think that would have been brought up.
 
Kreton said:
Private businesses are forced to do business with people whether they want to or not. They don't get a choice in who they do business with in many cases and that is not a good thing.
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No they are not and its a great thing:shrug:
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From The Independent

Lesbian couple turned away by Indiana tax preparer four years after Mike Pence signed anti-LGBTQ law
​

A married lesbian couple in Indiana were turned away by a tax preparer when they attempted to file their taxes jointly last week, making them one of many victims of the state’s anti-LGBTQ laws.

Bailey and Samantha Brazzel got married last July and decided to file their taxes jointly for the first time.

The couple went to Carter Tax Service in Russiaville to meet with Nancy Fivecoate, a tax preparer Ms Bailey used for the last four years.

“We went in there and sat down just like we always would, and then she said, ‘How are you filing this year?,’ and I said ‘married joint,’ and that’s when it went downhill,” Ms Bailey Brazzel said.

When Ms Fivecoate discovered that the same-sex couple will be filing jointly, she refused to file their taxes based on religious grounds.

COMMENT:-

I'm waiting for the day when a Jew who is a cashier at a supermarket refused to ring a customer's grocery order through on the grounds that that would entail them handling both "meat" and "milk" without having a chance to "cleanse" themselves between the items or when a Christian refuses to take an order for "Surf & Turf" on the grounds that The Bible prohibits eating shellfish.

I don't really expect that I'll have to wait all that long for either to happen.

In fact, I encourage people to set up just such cases. (They might even want to toss in refusing to serve "Inter-racial" couples because "mixing races is contrary to God's Law".)
​
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What you expect has already happened within the Muslim community. Long time ago actually.

Target Shifts Muslims who won't ring up pork
Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs

Funny how many are trying to accommodate Muslims beliefs while demonizing Christians.

For the record, I do not condone what that tax preparer did and I hope she loses a lot of business over it.
 
AGENT J said:
No they are not and its a great thing:shrug:
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No it is not a great thing. People who run a private business should not be forced to do business with people they don't wish to do business with. It is their business. It should be their choice. Just like consumers have a choice where to do business and spend their money private businesses should have the right to choose who they do business with. It is a two way street. It would be wrong to force a gay couple to get their taxes prepared by a bigot and it is wrong to force the bigot to take their money.
 
Kreton said:
1.) No it is not a great thing.
2.) People who run a private business should not be forced to do business with people they don't wish to do business with.
3.) It is their business. It should be their choice. Just like consumers have a choice where to do business and spend their money private businesses should have the right to choose who they do business with. It is a two way street.
4.) It would be wrong to force a gay couple to get their taxes prepared by a bigot
5.) and it is wrong to force the bigot to take their money.
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1.) yes it is a great thing because it is factually not happening :)
2.) in america they are not, thats why its great
3.) it is already
4.) I agree that would be wrong
5.) again that isnt happening in america :shrug:
 
dcsports said:
I imagine they are talking about federal income tax (and possibly state also). However, it's one box - married or not.

I did have a fleeting thought about the legality of the marriage. If, for example, they were married in a non-official ceremony, as was often the case with gay couples prior to the Supreme Court's ruling on the matter. It would make sense that if they lacked a valid marriage license, an accountant wouldn't be able to sign off on the return. However, I think that would have been brought up.
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Not necessarily, if the story is just for hype. Often when someone digs into the details, a media story leaves out relevant facts. I will not claim either way. I simply don't know, except that often these stories that push peoples buttons are often fake news.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I'm curious as to where you and a few other respectful liberals on here stand on this one.....

Muslim man wins lawsuit for getting fired for refusing to deliver beer even though he knew the company delivered beer before he took the job.

Jury Awards $240,000 to Muslim Truck Drivers In* EEOC Religious Discrimination Suit
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Yeah, we had something like this in Minnesota. Point-of-sale clerks refused to ring up bacon at Target because of religious objections. Target had to reassign them to another job in the store. Kind of a pain in the fanny for the employer. I don’t understand why they can’t include something in the job description like, “must be willing to handle bacon or alcoholic beverages”? Maybe that’s a problem, too. I don’t know. Glad I don’t employ people anymore.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From The Independent

Lesbian couple turned away by Indiana tax preparer four years after Mike Pence signed anti-LGBTQ law
​

A married lesbian couple in Indiana were turned away by a tax preparer when they attempted to file their taxes jointly last week, making them one of many victims of the state’s anti-LGBTQ laws.

Bailey and Samantha Brazzel got married last July and decided to file their taxes jointly for the first time.

The couple went to Carter Tax Service in Russiaville to meet with Nancy Fivecoate, a tax preparer Ms Bailey used for the last four years.

“We went in there and sat down just like we always would, and then she said, ‘How are you filing this year?,’ and I said ‘married joint,’ and that’s when it went downhill,” Ms Bailey Brazzel said.

When Ms Fivecoate discovered that the same-sex couple will be filing jointly, she refused to file their taxes based on religious grounds.

COMMENT:-

I'm waiting for the day when a Jew who is a cashier at a supermarket refused to ring a customer's grocery order through on the grounds that that would entail them handling both "meat" and "milk" without having a chance to "cleanse" themselves between the items or when a Christian refuses to take an order for "Surf & Turf" on the grounds that The Bible prohibits eating shellfish.

I don't really expect that I'll have to wait all that long for either to happen.

In fact, I encourage people to set up just such cases. (They might even want to toss in refusing to serve "Inter-racial" couples because "mixing races is contrary to God's Law".)
​
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People do have deep beliefs. Sometimes our liberties are at odds with each other. That’s why we have laws and courts. I think the accountant is going to lose on this one. Discrimination based upon gender.
 
So they will go to another tax preparer that will do their taxes and the original old fashioned ones will lose money. That's how America works. If enough people are mad about this, then they will switch too.
 
AGENT J said:
no, you factually can not LMAO
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You are entirely wrong in regards to this. Marriage is not a protected class. Do you even understand what protected classes are?
 
ajn678 said:
1.)You are entirely wrong in regards to this.
2.) Marriage is not a protected class.
3.) Do you even understand what protected classes are?
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1.) what i actually said is factually right and the rest is my opinion of what i want to happen
2.) :shock:

where did i say marriage is a protected "class" :lamo
quote it

wow so far thats two people that didnt read what was actually said :shrug:

3.) Do you even know what English is?
 
AGENT J said:
1.) what i actually said is factually right and the rest is my opinion of what i want to happen
2.) :shock:

where did i say marriage is a protected "class" :lamo
quote it

wow so far thats two people that didnt read what was actually said :shrug:

3.) Do you even know what English is?
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Your entire argument was based on "marriage rights". Protected classes are characteristics that you are not allowed to discriminate against. Marital status does not fall under the category.
 
ajn678 said:
Your entire argument was based on "marriage rights". Protected classes are characteristics that you are not allowed to discriminate against. Marital status does not fall under the category.
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so you can NOT quote me saying that and you made it up . . thats what I thought, got it LMAO

sine your first lie/ false claim completley failed lets move on to the next . .

please tell me what "my argument" was, thanks
:popcorn2:
 
AGENT J said:
so you can NOT quote me saying that and you made it up . . thats what I thought, got it LMAO

sine your first lie/ false claim completley failed lets move on to the next . .

please tell me what "my argument" was, thanks
:popcorn2:
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AGENT J said:
1.) translation: you dodged it
ill ask them AGAIN and youll probably doge them AGAIN

are you claiming that a legal marriage in PA is not recognized in every other state and states can deny you marriage benefits or discriminate against your marriage? yes or no
says who? you? and based on what facts?

2.) nope, didnt say that at all. Simply pointed out an example that shows the fact gay marriage is nationally protected at the federal level
3.) their marriage is what she is discriminating against, hence AGAIN which i said many times even in places that do not protect sexual orientation this creates a grey area and i would love for this to go to court at the federal level because IMO it would lose and lose big
4.) nope thats the retarded strawman YOU made up and not what I said. again a simply matter of what i actually wrote and said verse what you made up in your head.
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There is no grey area. Your entire argument attempts to place federal regulations that apply to states onto private business members. Don't say that isn't your argument, because it is entirely.
 
sangha said:
She didn't refuse service based on marriage. I'm sure she does taxes for married couples all the time.

She refused service because the couple were both female. Her refusal was clearly based upon the sex of the customers and discrimination based on sex is illegal in Indiana
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This is so hilariously wrong, its unbelievable that someone would try to argue this.
 
ajn678 said:
There is no grey area. Your entire argument attempts to place federal regulations that apply to states onto private business members. Don't say that isn't your argument, because it is entirely.
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LMAO this is awesome!!!
there factually is a grey area as i pointed out with what I actually said that you keep proving you have no clue about. .

when did "i" mention private business?the other person tried that failed stwawman too and coulnd answer either :)

Ill ask you AGAIN, what is factual "my argument".

try not to dodge this time,. i know you have no clue because you are making it up and assuming but until you answer or simply admit you dont know its just gonna make your false claims fall harder and harder

who bets my question is dodged and ran from again?
 
ajn678 said:
Your entire argument was based on "marriage rights". Protected classes are characteristics that you are not allowed to discriminate against. Marital status does not fall under the category.
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Does this accountant discriminate against all "married filing jointly" customers or only against "lesbian married filing jointly"? I suspect it is the latter.

Instead of a tax accountant, what if the person in question was an emergency room physician? Would you extend the same argument if the doctor was refusing life-saving medical services on 'religious grounds' because marital status is not a protected class?

If the emergency room physician has the right to refuse service, then religious bigotry trumps even the right to life-saving services.

If the ER doc does not have the right to discriminate, I would ask how critical does the services have to be before the customer is entitled to receive them?
 
sangha said:
Someone did try this.

In the Supreme Court

They won
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If you are referring to the gay marriage case, NO. That involved government discrimination which the bans arent limited to favorite classifications of Americans but to all Americans. Here we are talking about discrimination by private individuals.
 
Of course, Ms. Fivecoate was wrong discriminating against that gay couple.


She has the perfect right to dislike/fear any group, but if she runs a business, she must serve everyone. That is the consensus in 2019 America.


She should be severely fined and warned that next time, she will lose her business license.


If serving a gay couple violates what she thinks is her religious beliefs, tough buns. The Mormons changed their policy on polygamy. Even the Catholic Church now says that non-practicing gay people are welcome in the Church. So she will just have to reconcile the fact that she will not go to Hell if she prepares the tax forums for a gay couple.
 
Kal'Stang said:
What you expect has already happened within the Muslim community. Long time ago actually.

Target Shifts Muslims who won't ring up pork
Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs

Funny how many are trying to accommodate Muslims beliefs while demonizing Christians.

For the record, I do not condone what that tax preparer did and I hope she loses a lot of business over it.
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An employer has a "duty to accommodate". The Target case might be simpler than either of us suspect IF Target had made similar accommodations for persons of the Jewish faith in the past (which we don't know) because failure to make the same accommodation for Muslims WOULD be a clear cut case of "discrimination based on religion".

We agree on our reaction to the tax preparer's actions. Not only do I not condone them, I think that they are silly.
 
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