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After Winning a $15 Minimum Wage, Fast Food Workers Now Battle Unfair Firings

pamak said:
Ohh, and how does this fit with the fact that red states make things in a more "economical way" when they rely more on federal help which comes mainly from blue donor states (through the fed taxes they pay)? I am pissed with conservatives who steal money from blue states based on an idiotic legal fed system,. Let the red states try to live within their means, and then we can see if they can afford to have a peaceful society without massive social unrests when their poor cannot get the expected dough from uncle Sam!
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They don't rely on federal funds. They would simply be idiots not to take what they are offered. They are not idiots.
 
pamak said:
I am looking also things realistically.

I see for example that the German corporations are obliged to have about half of the seats in their Board of Directors controlled by the unions!

This is a result of the German Law

Codetermination in Germany - Wikipedia

It is also a main reason why the gap between the worker wages and the CEOs is not as much as in the US

Why do American CEOs make twice as much as German CEOs? | Fortune

Inequality and wealth creation are not JUST results of different "personal responsibility" levels among people. There are many factors involved and I see no reason why people become "pissed" with voices about helping the poor instead of becoming "pissed" with government policies that help the top 10% of the wealthiest population control the majority of corporate stocks and make decisions that of course overwhelmingly benefit mostly the very rich!
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I'm all for helping the poor. I'm also for personal responsibility and I can think of zero reasons why a healthy adult must stay in a minimum wage job for years on end against their will.
 
pamak said:
Ohh, and how does this fit with the fact that red states make things in a more "economical way" when they rely more on federal help which comes mainly from blue donor states (through the fed taxes they pay)? I am pissed with conservatives who steal money from blue states based on an idiotic legal fed system,. Let the red states try to live within their means, and then we can see if they can afford to have a peaceful society without massive social unrests when their poor cannot get the expected dough from uncle Sam!
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That 'red states taking from blue states' talking point is tired and untrue.
 
Lursa said:
I'm all for helping the poor. I'm also for personal responsibility and I can think of zero reasons why a healthy adult must stay in a minimum wage job for years on end against their will.
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We really should use the term 'entry level jobs' - because minimum wage-ish (most are for more than minimum wage) are dominated by people entering the workforce. That's one of the primary concerns about forcing the minimum wage to an artificially high level - it's going to reduce the number of jobs, and the people that will be hurt are those entering the workforce. Jobs in places like fast food restaurants and grocery stores often provide valuable work experience for young people entering the workforce.
 
Lord of Planar said:
They don't rely on federal funds. They would simply be idiots not to take what they are offered. They are not idiots.
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Nope!

The federal help reduces their incentive to increase the minimum wage. I did not say they are idiots. They are hypocrites!
Let's see if they can have social peace with the level of minimum wage they have without getting federal help! Hungry people become desperate very quickly...
 
Lursa said:
He's getting 'rewarded,' just apparently, not as much as you'd like.

Why should someone who's doing a job that anyone can do, be paid more? If there is a large supply of people that can do it, then people get paid what they're worth. Why should that determination be based on anything but economics for the business? These are 'why' questions....meaning subjective. It's asking for entitlements.

There's no shame in taking those jobs but if *they dont pay you enough, then that's not the job's or business's fault*. You are free to move on. You are free to make the most of the job you have and move onward or upward. IMO no one should take a low-wage job and do nothing to improve their skills or experience and then complain about it. There's no reason people cannot improve their job skills. Or move to where they can maximize their limited skills, just like humans have done forever. Businesses dont 'owe' you anything for the decisions you make in your life regarding skills, family, location, etc.
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If businesses don't owe us a decent wage for a hard day's with, then we don't owe them our infrastructure.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
If businesses don't owe us a decent wage for a hard day's with, then we don't owe them our infrastructure.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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Good...someone else will jump right in and take those jobs. And the more citizens that balk at that, the more we'll make legal immigration slots open up.

And immigrants have shown themselves to be very willing to start out low wage but work their way up into additional skills and better paying positions.
 
pamak said:
Nope!

The federal help reduces their incentive to increase the minimum wage. I did not say they are idiots. They are hypocrites!
Let's see if they can have social peace with the level of minimum wage they have without getting federal help! Hungry people become desperate very quickly...
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Why do they need to increase their minimum wage? They seem to be doing OK. It's the blue states that are struggling.
 
dcsports said:
We really should use the term 'entry level jobs' - because minimum wage-ish (most are for more than minimum wage) are dominated by people entering the workforce. That's one of the primary concerns about forcing the minimum wage to an artificially high level - it's going to reduce the number of jobs, and the people that will be hurt are those entering the workforce. Jobs in places like fast food restaurants and grocery stores often provide valuable work experience for young people entering the workforce.
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I can agree with that.

However my problem is when people take those entry level jobs...and never move out of them. But they still expect more $. (ANd yes, they do take important jobs where others should be developing their labor market skills)
 
phattonez said:
If businesses don't owe us a decent wage for a hard day's with, then we don't owe them our infrastructure.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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Supply and demand between the workforce and jobs available.

maybe if the demonrats stopped shipping our jobs off elsewhere, and invited illegals to work, wages would naturally rise on their own...
 
Lursa said:
IMO enabling more money for unskilled labor just encourages a race to the bottom. An accommodation for the lowest common denominator.

It's the opposite of the work ethic this country was developed on and succeeded on.
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Back during the middle of the 20th century?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why do they need to increase their minimum wage? They seem to be doing OK. It's the blue states that are struggling.
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This is exactly my point! They get more help from uncle Sam who reshuffles money from states which pay a lot (as a result of their higher wages) to states that pay less.
By the way, you have to decide if it is okay to assume that the level of compensation for somebody else is okay! I have no problem with this. I just point this because conservatives are quick to criticize those who evaluate the compensation of the very rich....
 
Lursa said:
Good...someone else will jump right in and take those jobs. And the more citizens that balk at that, the more we'll make legal immigration slots open up.

And immigrants have shown themselves to be very willing to start out low wage but work their way up into additional skills and better paying positions.
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Nice to see you have no loyalty to fellow citizens.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Supply and demand between the workforce and jobs available.

maybe if the demonrats stopped shipping our jobs off elsewhere, and invited illegals to work, wages would naturally rise on their own...
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I'm all for tariffs and immigration restrictions.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
I'm all for tariffs and immigration restrictions.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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I would actually like to see legal immigration increase. Its these illegal immigrants that tax our systems.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Supply and demand between the workforce and jobs available.

maybe if the demonrats stopped shipping our jobs off elsewhere, and invited illegals to work, wages would naturally rise on their own...
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Ohh common now!

In the US, both Republicans and Democrats were all for shipping business abroad. When socialists like me (at that time in Europe) were against globalization, we were criticized by all Americans as people who do not believe in the "freedom" of the corporations to do what they want which in the end would rise everybody up . It was the same time when the south was trying to get jobs from the North by offering a less secure and underpaid workforce. Of course, as usual, after the conservatives in the South became victims of their policies of surrendering as much as they could to the corporations, they ask for government intervention!
 
Kushinator said:
The Federal government creates new money via deficit spending, which is outside the scope of conventional monetary policy. There is a distinction that is clear as day.
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The Federal Reserve creates money; not the Federal Government.

The Fed returns all but 6% of it's profits back to the Treasury. The Federal Reserve Board and Governors are nominated by the executive and confirmed by the Senate. To claim they are completely independent is dishonest. You seem like one of those folks who refuses to admit to an error.
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There is no error; the Federal Reserve is completely independent, by every definition of the word.

Independent - free from outside control; not depending on another's authority.
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The Executive Branch doesn't control the Fed; congress doesn't control the fed. The Fed is not depended on the Executive Branch; nor is it dependent on Congress. The only thing you've said is that the Fed and the Government has vertical functionality where they work together. That doesn't answer the question regarding their independence.


My point has been made. You may have the last word.
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The only thing you've pointed out was your ignorance of our Central Banking system and English potentially being your second language.

Otherwise, you have no point.
 
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phattonez said:
Nice to see you have no loyalty to fellow citizens.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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If our fellow citizens are content to remain low wage earners, and not willing to better themselves, then I'm all for people that will come in and do so (legally).

That's how this country was built...by motivated hardworking immigrants willing to develop skills and innovate and create. Now there are citizens that have developed an entitlement mentality and they arent willing to do the same. Why would I respect that?
 
Cardinal said:
If the market is resulting in them getting an unlivable wage and being fired without cause, then "the market" is a crap standard to follow.

And yes, we get it: you don't respect the work they do. Every conservative in this thread appears to be engaged in some kind of weird competition to outdo each other in who can express the most contempt for fast food workers.
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Have you ever had hire an employee for your business?
 
pamak said:
You miss the point!

The Fed policy is about protecting the economy and the credit worthiness of the government! What the Fed can do or not do in theory is different from what the Fed will choose to do in practice to accomplish its objectives! The latter is certainly affected by a big fed deficit and a government debt to GDP ratio that is not under control!
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The Fed is under no obligation to protect any credit worthiness of any institution; not even the Federal Government. For this reason, it's illegal for the Federal Reserve to purchase securities directly from the Federal Government.

The Fed has two, and only two, official mandates: Full Employment and Price Stability. The Fed also has an unofficial, and debatable, third mandate, which involves financial market supervision.

Aside from those two/three things, the Federal Reserve will do whatever it wants. Just because the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government can (and do) work together mutually doesn't make it an obligation.
 
Hedgology said:
The Fed is under no obligation to protect any credit worthiness of any institution; not even the Federal Government. For this reason, it's illegal for the Federal Reserve to purchase securities directly from the Federal Government.

The Fed has two, and only two, official mandates: Full Employment and Price Stability. The Fed also has an unofficial, and debatable, third mandate, which involves financial market supervision.

Aside from those two/three things, the Federal Reserve will do whatever it wants. Just because the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government can (and do) work together mutually doesn't make it an obligation.
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Yes, try to get full employment and price stability in a country where the government has lost its credit worthiness....


:roll:
 
Lursa said:
I can agree with that.

However my problem is when people take those entry level jobs...and never move out of them. But they still expect more $. (ANd yes, they do take important jobs where others should be developing their labor market skills)
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That's an issue. Often it's not's a matter of whether they have the ability to move, but other factors involved -- usually motivation or work ethic. Generally, if you show up and do your job, employers will move you out of those entry level jobs pretty quickly.

I have two young nieces that are great examples. One ended up dropping out of high school as a senior, and has a young son. She went to work at a fast food restaurant that's closed on Sundays. She was promoted to shift leader within a year, and is now an assistant manager, quickly more than doubling her pay (no idea what she makes now). She's friendly and works hard, showing up to work every day as scheduled. She says it's not a big deal - all she had to do was 'show up and work'. Her cousin has a bachelors degree in science from a well respected university. She does complain about working minimum wage jobs, says that's all that are available, and is very vocal that they should raise the minimum wage. (She is a huge Bernie Sanders supporter). Of course, she's cycled through at least a dozen in the past two years, quitting every time she 'can't stand her stupid bosses', who are of course 'unreasonable'.

Most people 'stuck' in minimum wage jobs are there because they either don't have the desire to move on, or haven't developed the job skills (and work ethic) to do so.
 
Hedgology said:
The Federal Reserve creates money; not the Federal Government.
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First and foremost, the Fed creates base money. Money that is spent into the real economy is created in banks and the same process occurs with deficit spending.

There is no error; the Federal Reserve is completely independent, by every definition of the word.
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You're dragging your feet to defend your error. If the Federal Reserve were completely independent, they wouldn't repatriate their profits to the Treasury, nor would their governance be based on appointment from elected officials.

The Executive Branch doesn't control the Fed; congress doesn't control the fed. The Fed is not depended on the Executive Branch; nor is it dependent on Congress.
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Your disagreement doesn't substantiate your point. Maybe you just need a refresher.

The only thing you've said is that the Fed and the Government has vertical functionality where they work together. That doesn't answer the question regarding their independence.
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Monetary policy decisions are expected to made independently of political persuasion. But again, that does not equate to the Fed being completely independent. That's a foolish thing to say... words have meaning.

The only thing you've pointed out was your ignorance of our Central Banking system and English potentially being your second language.

Otherwise, you have no point.
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You know, i was going to let it go, but since you want to carry a disrespectful tone because you're embarrassed about being corrected, i'll continue to highlight your error.

:2wave:
 
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