• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report

TU Curmudgeon

TU Curmudgeon

B.A. (Sarc), LLb. (Lex Sarcasus), PhD (Sarc.)
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
62,453
Reaction score
19,276
Location
Lower Mainland of BC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
From FOX News

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.

COMMENT:-

Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?

On the other hand, it IS the duty of "The State" to ensure that all of the children think and behave exactly alike - isn't it?

Well?

Isn't it?

I mean, we can't have conflicting opinions in a free, open, and democratic society - can we?
​
 
If he does not stand for freedom, he can sit in jail

Freedom, do you speak it mother trucker
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From FOX News

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.

COMMENT:-

Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?

On the other hand, it IS the duty of "The State" to ensure that all of the children think and behave exactly alike - isn't it?

Well?

Isn't it?

I mean, we can't have conflicting opinions in a free, open, and democratic society - can we?
​
Click to expand...

The pledge is not racist, but the First Amendment guarantees your right not to recite it. Any decent judge would see that.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From FOX News

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.

COMMENT:-

Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?

On the other hand, it IS the duty of "The State" to ensure that all of the children think and behave exactly alike - isn't it?

Well?

Isn't it?

I mean, we can't have conflicting opinions in a free, open, and democratic society - can we?
​
Click to expand...

Racist or not (and I don't see it) it's just blatant, cynical indoctrination requiring children to pledge allegiance to anything, never mind something as symbolic as a flag. The intention, after so many years of swearing allegiance, is to produce young adults who don't think about it anymore, who can't make an independent decision on the subject.
The whole concept, the government requiring schoolkids to swear allegiance, is just Orwellian. I remember when we had to sing 'God Save The Queen' before assemblies and special events, and even then I knew it was wrong. I stand for the anthem but wish we didn't do that either.
 
Heck when I was in school, we'd just mumble the words mostly. One other kid I knew in junior high would change the words each and every time...
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
...

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.
...
Click to expand...


Good example why teachers are leaving public schools ...
 
If the OP is correct the student got in trouble for "he refused to stand ", not for not saying the pledge.

imo, many younger people do not hold the same values that those of us raised in the 50's may have when it comes to respecting the USA. Change is good when the change benefits the people of a country. Personally, I do not believe the US is as good today as it has been in the past.

Since the kid brought up African Americans and the flag, it does make me wonder what indoctrination he received to come to the conclusion he has. :mrgreen:
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From FOX News

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.

COMMENT:-

Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?

On the other hand, it IS the duty of "The State" to ensure that all of the children think and behave exactly alike - isn't it?

Well?

Isn't it?

I mean, we can't have conflicting opinions in a free, open, and democratic society - can we?
​
Click to expand...

Welcome to the new Fascist America.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From FOX News

Florida boy, 11, arrested after refusing to recite ‘racist’ Pledge of Allegiance: report
​

A Florida middle school student was arrested earlier this month after allegedly getting into a confrontation with school officials and a law enforcement officer following reports that he refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

The 11-year-old attends the sixth grade at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland. He has been charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without being violent, both misdemeanors. The Feb. 4 incident began when the boy allegedly told his substitute teacher he did not want to stand for the pledge because he viewed the American flag as racist against African-Americans.


In a handwritten statement to Polk County Public Schools, the teacher reported telling the boy, "Why if it was so bad here he did not go to another place to live." She said he then said, "they brought me here," according to Bay News 9.

The student was arrested by a school resource officer after he refused to follow commands and called school officials racists, reports said. He has not been identified by the school or police. A Lakeland police spokesperson declined to comment on the matter, The Ledger newspaper reported.

COMMENT:-

Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?

On the other hand, it IS the duty of "The State" to ensure that all of the children think and behave exactly alike - isn't it?

Well?

Isn't it?

I mean, we can't have conflicting opinions in a free, open, and democratic society - can we?
​
Click to expand...

The pledge itself isn't racist.

That being said, he should stand and remain silent if he wishes to.

I have visited a few temples, churches, and other places where it was expected to stand, sit or bow according to local rules. I would follow those rules as a sign of respect.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Absolutely.

Everyone has 100% total and complete freedom to say whatever is officially approved.
Click to expand...

Interesting view on freedom of speech, "officially approved". Are you ok with someone yelling "Fire" in a crowed movie theater when there is no fire? Or yelling "this is a hijack" on a airplane? Does having laws stating it is illegal to do so take away from a persons freedom of speech?
 
mike2810 said:
If the OP is correct the student got in trouble for "he refused to stand ", not for not saying the pledge.

imo, many younger people do not hold the same values that those of us raised in the 50's may have when it comes to respecting the USA. Change is good when the change benefits the people of a country. Personally, I do not believe the US is as good today as it has been in the past.

Since the kid brought up African Americans and the flag, it does make me wonder what indoctrination he received to come to the conclusion he has. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Point taken, but I think you could easily make the case that not standing is protected "speech."
 
rocket88 said:
The pledge is not racist, but the First Amendment guarantees your right not to recite it. Any decent judge would see that.
Click to expand...

And any teacher should know that.

A person could refuse to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" on the ground that they have a personal belief that it is improper to "pledge" to "things". They might want to "pledge" "support for the Ideals espoused by the United States of America", in which case they could NOT "recite the Pledge of Allegiance" AS IT IS CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED.
 
rocket88 said:
Point taken, but I think you could easily make the case that not standing is protected "speech."
Click to expand...

It may be. It also tells me a great deal about the persons character and values when they do not. It would be interesting to see how the young child has been disrespected by the US enough to have such contempt. Wonder what the parents are teaching the child.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
And any teacher should know that.

A person could refuse to recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" on the ground that they have a personal belief that it is improper to "pledge" to "things". They might want to "pledge" "support for the Ideals espoused by the United States of America", in which case they could NOT "recite the Pledge of Allegiance" AS IT IS CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED.
Click to expand...

Dating myself a bit, but as a Senior in High School, I famously (at least at the school) did not say the pledge as a protest against the Gulf War. Pretty much everybody knew including the administration (which consisted of some pretty strict priests). One morning our normal homeroom teacher was out (possibly because he was having another Vietnam flashback), and the substitute (the art teacher who didn't normally have homeroom duties) basically lost his freaking mind. All of the other students (many of whom disagreed with my politics) stood up for my right.
 
mike2810 said:
If the OP is correct the student got in trouble for "he refused to stand ", not for not saying the pledge.

imo, many younger people do not hold the same values that those of us raised in the 50's may have when it comes to respecting the USA. Change is good when the change benefits the people of a country. Personally, I do not believe the US is as good today as it has been in the past.

Since the kid brought up African Americans and the flag, it does make me wonder what indoctrination he received to come to the conclusion he has. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

When prayer was still a part of school day opening observances, students were allowed to "remain respectfully silent" if they did not believe they should participate.

While I would NOT recite "The Pledge of Allegiance" if a group that I was in were to do so, I would, out of respect for the members of the group and out of plain old-fashioned good manners, stand (which would not also involve putting my hand over my heart) whilst they did so.

The teacher was (in my opinion) wrong to make such a big issue out of the boy's refusal (especially since it was something that could well have been turned into a "teaching moment") and the boy was simply ill-mannered (I assume that that concept is still understood by some people [although the percentage of the populace that does understand it appears to be declining]).
 
Fledermaus said:
The pledge itself isn't racist.

That being said, he should stand and remain silent if he wishes to.

I have visited a few temples, churches, and other places where it was expected to stand, sit or bow according to local rules. I would follow those rules as a sign of respect.
Click to expand...

The implications of FM well worded humble word salad are horrific. People are doing well to ignore it. What FM ignores:

- students can't choose to visit school
- the state cannot compel anyone to perform symbolic gestures

Lol, people will complain about registering guns, but making attendance to school a symbolic experience meant to prop up whatever state FM has a vision of gets a pass.

I'm getting Handmaid's Tale vibes coated in cries of freedom.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 
rocket88 said:
The pledge is not racist, but the First Amendment guarantees your right not to recite it. Any decent judge would see that.
Click to expand...


I don't think the reciting was the problem ... he refused to stand when everybody else was told to stand ... "... he did not want to stand for the pledge ..."
 
HumblePi said:
Welcome to the new Fascist America.
Click to expand...

YEARS ago a friend of mine was living in the US after his father had been transferred there. He refused to recite "The Pledge of Allegiance" and got some very negative reactions - UNTIL his teacher took the opportunity to use his position as a "teaching moment" for the class to understand that NOT EVERYONE in the whole world was an American and NOT EVERYONE in the whole world was required to pledge allegiance to the United States of America.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Strangely enough, if the "adults" hadn't made a big fuss over this incident, there would have been no "disrupting a school function" and thus no need for police involvement and thus no "resisting arrest" - would there?
Click to expand...



1. Here in Los Angeles, they have solved that problem: Most teachers simply do NOT have the students recite the Pledge!

2. That young man is to be pitied. He does not know how lucky he is to live in the United States, especially in 2019.
 
Barnacle said:
I didn't know calling school officials "racists" has been officially approved.
Click to expand...

And the teacher was, obviously, completely unaware of what the concept "freedom" meant.

I do admit that "racist" is one of the words that I'd like to see completely dumped in favour of some more accurately descriptive terms - such as "ignorant a****le", but I doubt that I will live to see the day when that happens.
 
rocket88 said:
Dating myself a bit, but as a Senior in High School, I famously (at least at the school) did not say the pledge as a protest against the Gulf War. Pretty much everybody knew including the administration (which consisted of some pretty strict priests). One morning our normal homeroom teacher was out (possibly because he was having another Vietnam flashback), and the substitute (the art teacher who didn't normally have homeroom duties) basically lost his freaking mind. All of the other students (many of whom disagreed with my politics) stood up for my right.
Click to expand...

When I was in elementary school in the 60s my father was stationed in Germany. We attended school on a military base and every child there had a parent in the military. I remember two brothers who had a religious exemption from reciting the Pledge, which the rest of us did unfailingly every day. While curious about the details, no one had a big deal with it. The two brothers were treated normally otherwise.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
YEARS ago a friend of mine was living in the US after his father had been transferred there. He refused to recite "The Pledge of Allegiance" and got some very negative reactions - UNTIL his teacher took the opportunity to use his position as a "teaching moment" for the class to understand that NOT EVERYONE in the whole world was an American and NOT EVERYONE in the whole world was required to pledge allegiance to the United States of America.
Click to expand...


Very nice, but reciting was not the problem in your opening monologue ... standing was. Teacher told kids to stand ... 11-year old kid refused and declared: "You're a racist.".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom