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Amazon cancels plans to build New York headquarters

Anthony60 said:
A-oc really screwed the pooch on this one, eh? She is terribly uniformed for an elected official, she is not qualified to represent anyone.

She actually stated that they can now use the $3 billion tax break that Amazon was getting to put into the community! The idiot does not even know that there is no $3 billion! She actually thought the community was GIVING Amazon a $3B pile of cash, that they can now spend elsewhere! LOL!

That was the "break" Amazon was getting. She actually screwed the community out of much more, anywhere from $10 to $27 billion that Amazon was going to pay over the years, inclusive of the tax break. Oh, and at least 25,000 jobs.

Nice work, moron.
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That's what I didn't understand about Amazon's original decision on expansion. Bottom line has to matter, and NYC loses there from every angle - more taxes, more expensive for the company, and more expensive for employees. Sure they got $3 B on incentives, but they still would have to pay a LOT of taxes to do so. It seems like any expansion would be in a place with lower taxes, lower cost of living, cheaper expansion opportunities, etc. They might not get as much in incentives, but they'd be taxed less overall in both the short and long term. Instead, they went the opposite direction.
 
dcsports said:
That's what I didn't understand about Amazon's original decision on expansion. Bottom line has to matter, and NYC loses there from every angle - more taxes, more expensive for the company, and more expensive for employees. Sure they got $3 B on incentives, but they still would have to pay a LOT of taxes to do so. It seems like any expansion would be in a place with lower taxes, lower cost of living, cheaper expansion opportunities, etc. They might not get as much in incentives, but they'd be taxed less overall in both the short and long term. Instead, they went the opposite direction.
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Of course, now the media is not so ready to put A-oc on camera, they don't want to report this, they want to keep it quiet. This is a huge blunder, and clearly shows that it was a huge mistake it was to put this moron in office.

Any working stiff that cost his/her employer $billions would be out of a job, lickety split. She owes the people of LIC an apology, at the very least. And really should resign, she clearly is not a good advocate for the people. Oh, but she got her face in the news for it.
 
Vern said:
what two politicians? and I just don't think Amazon left because people said mean things. the protests were not going to affect their incentives. I think they realized they made a mistake. And just an fyi, I didn't care either way. But I was always puzzled by the decision.
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Two who spear headed the effort. Regardless if Amazon had other reasons, these two set the tone for an excuse.

NYCHA residents blast liberal activists for killing Amazon deal
 
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dcsports said:
That's what I didn't understand about Amazon's original decision on expansion. Bottom line has to matter, and NYC loses there from every angle - more taxes, more expensive for the company, and more expensive for employees. Sure they got $3 B on incentives, but they still would have to pay a LOT of taxes to do so. It seems like any expansion would be in a place with lower taxes, lower cost of living, cheaper expansion opportunities, etc. They might not get as much in incentives, but they'd be taxed less overall in both the short and long term. Instead, they went the opposite direction.
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We just had a thread posted where Amazon already paid zero taxes on 11 billion in profits. They weren't going to "pay a LOT of taxes to do so."
 
JasperL said:
They were clearly and obviously competitive with or without the incentives. Same with VA.
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I doubt it. I know Virginia calculated closely what were their inherent strengths and framed their offer around what it would take in addition to win. I'd be surprised if NYC did not do the same thing.
 
Deuce said:
We just had a thread posted where Amazon already paid zero taxes on 11 billion in profits. They weren't going to "pay a LOT of taxes to do so."
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I saw that... but unfortunately it didn't say the most important part -- WHY? In any case, that refers to federal income tax. There are ways to defer these taxes, but not forever. It doesn't address state and local taxes, which is the issue here. If you'll note the post I referenced, they would still have paid $10-27 billion in those. Go to many other states, and it's dramatically less. Go to a place like Grapevine/Irving, and much of that vanishes. Not to mention all the employee based taxes that would be less in a place with a lower cost of living.
 
dcsports said:
I saw that... but unfortunately it didn't say the most important part -- WHY? In any case, that refers to federal income tax. There are ways to defer these taxes, but not forever. It doesn't address state and local taxes, which is the issue here. If you'll note the post I referenced, they would still have paid $10-27 billion in those. Go to many other states, and it's dramatically less. Go to a place like Grapevine/Irving, and much of that vanishes. Not to mention all the employee based taxes that would be less in a place with a lower cost of living.
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The post you referenced gives no source for that number.
 
Having stayed in NYC a few times as a kid back in the 80's, I hated it. No way would I ever want to live there.
 
sangha said:
Nonsense

Anywhere close to Manhattan is expensive. If you move far enough away to get inexpensive housing, your transportation costs will cost many times more than the cost of the MTA
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You're confused. Commuting from Jersey is relatively the same cost as commuting from anywhere in NYC; people do it all the time.

In rare occasions, people even commute from Connecticut.
 
Jack Hays said:
I doubt it. I know Virginia calculated closely what were their inherent strengths and framed their offer around what it would take in addition to win. I'd be surprised if NYC did not do the same thing.
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LOL. Every city or state that offers a bloated incentive package will claim the same thing. :roll:

Bottom line is what I said in the very first post you challenged (with arguments that consist entirely of some variation of "Jack has spoken!") is the business factors completely overwhelm the tax incentives in cases like this. Unless Amazon is run by complete morons, on the 10 point list of what they needed out of a new HQ, the tax package was likely 10, and a distant 10, because at the end of the day the tax 'savings' don't make a blip on the total 10 year costs of running that new HQ, and the amount isn't even a rounding error on the P&L. It would disappear.
 
JasperL said:
LOL. Every city or state that offers a bloated incentive package will claim the same thing. :roll:

Bottom line is what I said in the very first post you challenged (with nothing but you asserting your conclusions) is the business factors completely overwhelm the tax incentives in cases like this. Unless Amazon is run by complete morons, on the 10 point list of what they needed out of a new HQ, the tax package was likely 10, and a distant 10, because at the end of the day the tax 'savings' don't make a blip on the total 10 year costs of running that new HQ, and the amount isn't even a rounding error on the P&L. It would disappear.
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They "claim the same thing" because the packages are necessary, not bloated.
 
PoS said:
Having stayed in NYC a few times as a kid back in the 80's, I hated it. No way would I ever want to live there.
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I can't tell if that's supposed to be funny or not, but it is hilarious. :lamo
 
Jack Hays said:
They "claim the same thing" because the packages are necessary, not bloated.
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Oh, good, more "Jack has spoken!!" arguments. Very persuasive, and compelling! :roll:
 
JasperL said:
Oh, good, more "Jack has spoken!!" arguments. Very persuasive, and compelling! :roll:
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Our exchange began when your #228 butted-in to my #130 reply to another poster. Why, exactly, do you think your importuning compels me to offer lengthy arguments?
 
holbritter said:
lol.... I feel lucky that if something happens, I can drive there in about 3 1/2 hours, plus I have family still on LI that can get there quicker. I don't know what I'd do if she decides to move that far away. Bound to happen someday, I'll just never be ready for it!
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No, you won't. We never are. :lol:
 
Hedgology said:
That is about the same as a pass from Jersey.
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Yep. It will depend on where in NJ you're coming from. I'm in Zone 2 so it came out to about $120 per month. It adds up if you then have to take the subway anywhere but I was lucky to have worked in the Hell's Kitchen and then Times Square area so I'd walk from Port Authority. I used to take the local jitneys into the city, but there was always some drama and the buses weren't well maintained so I started taking NJ Transit.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
You pointed at the politicians who really killed the deal.. And not at the Republicans usual scapegoat..
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Internecine bad blood and pernicious spite were at work. The local Republicans were as in favor of Amazon's presence as were most of the Democrats. The people are laying blame where it belongs, and I am a mere courier. Scapegoating accomplishes nothing.

This displays the inordinate assumed powers by a vocal political minority of activists who shout loudly. Both parties should observe the lesson.
 
Jack Hays said:
Watch and learn.
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I don't think this deal breaking down will deter others because NYC is an in-demand market. Companies know the talent is here and it is a hub for the financial world, and increasingly the tech world as well. The breakdown of the Amazon deal will make companies wary of tax incentives to build here, and that will be a consideration for larger companies. That being said though, Google is expanding in Manhattan with no major incentives and no one has raised the same level of fuss. I think places like LIC will continue to grow and attract large companies looking to set up shop in a major market.
 
Jack Hays said:
Our exchange began when your #228 butted-in to my #130 reply to another poster. Why, exactly, do you think your importuning compels me to offer lengthy arguments?
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You're not compelled to do anything, but you ARE engaging in a debate. You can go watch TV or take a walk and not participate in debates. I'm just pointing out that you asserting something that makes no business sense, that is contradicted by the research, that's contradicted by interviews with the people who make these decisions, and that is backed only by your ignorant opinion that doesn't even ACKNOWLEDGE any of these factors is a piss poor argument. In this case the argument is akin to some industrial farming operation going shopping for a new combine harvester costing $300k+ and being swayed by one dealer offering a two whole years of free XM radio, and an upgraded cup holder.

And the idea that a bunch of elected officials who are elected thanks to their deep pocketed donor class, and if you've dealt with know they're often dumb as rocks, then make decisions to hand out tax freebies to these powerful donors and they're of course always "necessary" and in the public interest because who ever heard of politicians or bureaucrats doing dumb or corrupt things, is naive at best and you're not that, or at least I assume not.
 
JasperL said:
I can't tell if that's supposed to be funny or not, but it is hilarious. :lamo
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But it's true, I was traumatized! My aunt who lives in Stuy town (and lives there still) asked me if I wanted to stay over for a week one summer so I said yes since I was the adventurous type. She was a real Cruela DeVille since she wanted to lose weight by not eating and so had nothing in the fridge. I was starving every day until she got home with some takeout food. Even worse, all the buildings in that area looked alike, so I was afraid to go out lest I get lost and not find my way back again. And if that wasn't enough, there was a crank caller who kept phoning in just to hear my voice on the phone. I will never ever live in NYC for as long as I live.
 
ElChupacabra said:
I don't think this deal breaking down will deter others because NYC is an in-demand market. Companies know the talent is here and it is a hub for the financial world, and increasingly the tech world as well. The breakdown of the Amazon deal will make companies wary of tax incentives to build here, and that will be a consideration for larger companies. That being said though, Google is expanding in Manhattan with no major incentives and no one has raised the same level of fuss. I think places like LIC will continue to grow and attract large companies looking to set up shop in a major market.
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You may very well be right. My point was about the political use AOC's opponents will make of this episode.
 
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