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Amazon cancels plans to build New York headquarters

Hope they get good paying jobs! Mine is only making $17 an hour and not in her field of study.

Don't see how she can afford to live anywhere in or near the city on $17 an hour.

I love my sweet little naive daughter. When you are young, most kids want to go to either NYC or LA. :lol:
 
I know! And it’s in an ‘ok’ location. But it’s better than the closet she was renting for $800 in a slightly better area. Could fit her full size bed against the wall, with 4” on the other side. No closet to store anything. No room for a dresser. Crazy!

:no: No way.
 
My poor, youngest daughter and her BFF plan on moving to NY when they graduate college. They are quite sure that with the both of them working, they can afford a great apartment.

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1 of my daughters live in Manhattan with a guy. They both have good jobs. They pay well over $4,000 a month, for a very nice, but quite small apartment.

It's crazy.
 
1 of my daughters live in Manhattan with a guy. They both have good jobs. They pay well over $4,000 a month, for a very nice, but quite small apartment.

It's crazy.

It is. I love the city. I do. I would love to be able to afford to live there, and I guess I could, if I wanted to have like zero disposable income. But what is the fun of living in the city if you can't afford to get up at 3am and go buy a bagel?
 
Don't see how she can afford to live anywhere in or near the city on $17 an hour.

I love my sweet little naive daughter. When you are young, most kids want to go to either NYC or LA. :lol:

She also does graphic art on the side, but I don’t count that as it’s not steady. She’s been talking about LA..... that’s too far away!!
 
It is. I love the city. I do. I would love to be able to afford to live there, and I guess I could, if I wanted to have like zero disposable income. But what is the fun of living in the city if you can't afford to get up at 3am and go buy a bagel?

If I had to do it all over again I would have gone to NYC in my 20's, before I got married and lived there a year. Just to do it, experience it. But I could never live there full time, it's just too crowded...

My daughter loves it down there, she's young and has a few bucks in her pocket even after their $4k+ rent. But if they get married they both already said they won't stay there. It's just too expensive. And they both can probably get a job anywhere, not for the money they make in NYC, but where ever they end up the cost of living will obviously be much less than NYC..
 
The other kind is your inclusion of other tools as subsidization. Enough said, you're boring me.

What you cannot overcome is the economic effect of those "other tools" is (or can be, depending on terms) identical in every way to that of a cash grant. So all you have left is pedantry...

You'll ignore the following, but it's not for you.....

The problem from my perspective is the false distinction between a "subsidy" versus a "Tax incentive" is how we end up with a "loophole" ridden tax code full of hidden subsidies, that never show up in the annual budgets, that don't require votes of Congress to appropriate annually, and total about $1.5 trillion a year in foregone revenue, which is not quite but approaching total income tax collections per year.

The $200 billion/year in "incentives" for employer provided health insurance are a good example. People don't know or care about the total cost of their employer provided policy because it's tax free to them (they care about their share...), and fully deductible by the employer. That arrangement lowers the cost of providing health insurance to employees, and therefore directly subsidizes providing health insurance as compensation versus cash salary, is a good thing - the subsidies WORK, the vast majority of employers provide health insurance and the subsidies help. But people don't see this huge subsidy and so don't even know they benefit.

So they can oppose the direct ACA subsidies of the poor, and support the subsidies of their own health insurance cumulatively totaling $200 billion per year, and never even confront the disconnect. If we cut all employees a check for the tax savings, versus them just not seeing the value of the compensation they get in the form of very valuable insurance in their W-2, we'd all understand the issue better. But it's even worse when we pretend that the tax savings from tax free employer provided insurance are fundamentally different than a cash grant. That's the fundamental lie in the false distinction you're trying to draw.

The tax deduction for state and local taxes is another example. The deduction allowed states and cities to shift the cost of their taxes, a form of tax exporting, onto federal taxpayers through deductions, it lowered the after tax cost of those taxes for those able to itemize. So it was a subsidy of the SALT burden by federal taxpayers. Someone in the top bracket only 'paid' 65% of their total SALT burden due to the federal tax deduction at the 35% marginal rate. We federal taxpayers paid the rest as a group. We need to be honest about that - it WAS a federal subsidy of SALT. Good or bad thing is up for debate, but we can't debate it honestly without calling it what is IS.

If Congress just cut a check to NYC residents every year in an amount equal to the tax savings, we all KNOW the discussion would be entirely different. We'd see wealthy NYC residents getting six and maybe seven figure checks from the feds while some farmer in Iowa isn't getting a penny cause he doesn't itemize. But the economic impact at the top level is identical. Foregone federal revenue from the deduction is functionally identical to that alternative cash grant to the taxpayers, for the feds and the taxpayers.
 
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OK, here's part of my original argument:



And you claim, quoting you: "The facts presented decisively refute your claims about business relocation incentives, at least insofar as the Virginia package was concerned."

But how? In this case we KNOW the other business aspects of the decision overwhelmed the incentive packages and we know that because the cities who 'won' the competition, and VA and TN especially, were on the lower end of offers and the cities with the highest offers, many times that of VA did NOT GET THE HQ.

So where was I wrong and what facts indicate that my analysis, which is just a summary of tons of research, is incorrect?

NYC would not have been in the discussion without the incentives.
 
Except my argument was entirely about who really did what. :shrug:

Mine wasn't, ever. I'm not responsible for your argument. Our exchange began when you butted in on a response I made to another poster.
 
She also does graphic art on the side, but I don’t count that as it’s not steady. She’s been talking about LA..... that’s too far away!!

I know. I feel the same way about NY. Although my son still lives upstate, but I complain about that, too. :lol:
 
NYC would not have been in the discussion without the incentives.

LOL. JACK HAS SPOKEN!

Let's ask Google about that.

Google announces major expansion in New York City | Ars Technica

Note the date - December 2018. Why did AMZN need incentives but Google didn't? :confused:

And you're still ignoring the point, because you have no argument. We KNOW that the incentive deals were a minor player - all those other business reasons to locate in VA (in that case) were obviously more important than the incentives, because VA and TN were on the low end of bidders and got the deal. Cities offering many times the amount VA offered did NOT. So what drove the decision? Not incentives!!!
 
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What you cannot overcome is the economic effect of those "other tools" is (or can be, depending on terms) identical in every way to that of a cash grant. So all you have left is pedantry...

The discussion is about Amazon's decision to withdraw from NYC and its ramifications. Not the ACA, not tax differentials between different regions of the nation, not any of your false arguments having nothing to do with the topic at hand. Take your rants somewhere else to someone who might be interested.
 
I know. I feel the same way about NY. Although my son still lives upstate, but I complain about that, too. :lol:

Whine, whine, wine. Don't you know already, whatever you advise your kids, you are wrong. :)

My wife says the same no matter what I say, "You are wrong."

"You look beautiful today." as she pouts at the mirror

"I'm a mess."

There is no hope.:)
 
Whine, whine, wine. Don't you know already, whatever you advise your kids, you are wrong. :)

Man, yeah. I have raised 3 girls and 1 boy. If at least one of my kids isn't pissed at me, I feel like I am doing something wrong.

My wife says the same no matter what I say, "You are wrong."

"You look beautiful today." as she pouts at the mirror

"I'm a mess."

There is no hope.:)

Acceptance is the first step. :lol:
 
Which part, that a shakeup at Amazon preceded the change of plans or that the ultimate decision was financially driven?

I think there was definitely something that happened in the leadership structure at Amazon that changed the plan...they teased this announcment for over a year, only to do a reverse soon after the "final decision" was announced.

I mean, it could very well be that a restructuring of stakes in the company in preparation for the Bezos divorce necessitated the cancellation of purely glamor projects like the NYC office.
That may be, but I doubt it was due to someone not wanting to go to VA (personally).
 
LOL. JACK HAS SPOKEN!

Let's ask Google about that.

Google announces major expansion in New York City | Ars Technica

Note the date - December 2018. Why did AMZN need incentives but Google didn't? :confused:

And you're still ignoring the point, because you have no argument. We KNOW that the incentive deals were a minor player - all those other business reasons to locate in VA (in that case) were obviously more important than the incentives, because VA and TN were on the low end of bidders and got the deal. Cities offering many times the amount VA offered did NOT. So what drove the decision? Not incentives!!!

NYC was not competitive for Amazon without the incentives. Why do you suppose NY offered so much? You think they didn't do their research & due diligence?
 
At times yes, but in this instance the distinction is an important factor for explaining how our government functions with its private sector business relationships. Understanding the distinctions can lead to better critiques for selecting who represents us in our government and how they represent us. Unfortunately, most of our candidates are economic illiterates. And government is always about money.

Hillary Clinton (when running for the US Senate in New York) - "I promise I will deliver 200,000 jobs to upstate New York." Yes, Yale and Harvard and not one job from the carpetbagger.
It is dishonest for you to assert there is any difference in understanding when it comes what is being discussed. You dismissed his argument because he didn't use the word you thought is appropriate and not because of any difference in understanding how taxes work
 
I reject his arguments because they are not based on reality. The difference between subsidies and incentives is a huge chasm. They function differently and serve different purposes, even when results are similar. It is not mere semantics.
And yet, you haven't been able to refute anything about how Jasper said it works. The only issue you identified was his terminology.

That is the very essence of pedantry
 
I did everything you have listed there! My father died when I was a freshman in college but my mother pressed me (and my siblings when my father was alive) to do all those things. I did a grand tour of Europe and Africa with some friends after graduation. We stayed in hostels and had a ball. We did a quick road trip in the USA. And my first apartment I got was right after graduation, in Jersey City (when I worked in Newark). It was all great fun!
My condolences on your pop. But in terms of your youthful life experiences, I must admit it seems you were a lucky girl!

You only live once; you're only young once. I'm so lucky my parents gave me so much independence and support when I was young. But I also think city kids just grow-up faster, anyway.

And those youthful trips and vacations mature us! The force us to function. It may sound kinda' funny, but I had a discussion here where I promoted the idea of passing on the honeymoon, and rather taking as long and extended a trip as possible as a couple, to an area most lacking in infrastructure that we'd care to visit - before the marriage! It will force the couple to work together, and to see how they function as a team. Better to find-out before you tie the not, right?
 
I hope they come to Indianapolis!

I could use a home value increase of 100% before I sell and move south!
Yep. I'm sure Indy would love to have them, too! :thumbs:
 
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