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Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

Chomsky

Chomsky

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(CNN) Border security negotiations, for days considered on the path to a weekend agreement, have not progressed, and members on both sides have started to discuss whether backstop alternatives to prevent another government shutdown are necessary, three sources involved told CNN.
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A Democratic aide briefed on talks said the discussions "broke down" on Saturday after the Senate GOP rejected their position on limits for Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention beds in the interior of the country. The source said there was progress on border barriers and detention beds, but that Democrats "cannot agree to physical barrier spending above the level we want without GOP concessions on ICE."
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Two senior Republican aides told CNN Sunday morning that negotiations fell apart because the Democratic ask on internal enforcement caps was a non-starter.
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Source: Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

I used CNN as my source here, but the talks faltering is being widely reported by other reputable sources. In fact, CNN seems a bit more cautious in their use of the term "concerned", since most other sources are calling the talks "stalled".

In an effort to provide a balanced OP, I quoted an introductory excerpt of the topic itself, followed by a Dem commentary excerpt and a Republican commentary excerpt. They all seem to corroborate each other.

According to the article's claims, it seems the Dems may be willing to go part of the way to meeting Trump's demands for his wall, but expect compromise or concession on ICE detainment - something the Republicans seem not willing to negotiate.

So, what do you think? Should both sides make concessions? Should the Repubs hold their ground? Should the Dems? Should Nancy throw it back to Trump, and tell him: "It's your wall, you figure it out"?
 
like i said in the other thread about this, close the airports. the rich hate it when they can't travel, and that dissolves shutdowns like boiling water melts ice.
 
And so, once again, the repubs demands for more money will lead to a govt shutdown

Because it worked so well for them the last time
 
It is not the least bit surprising that adding three more weeks of 'negotiation time' did not prod congress critters into passing a 'budget' bill that was due before 10/1/2018.
 
Helix said:
like i said in the other thread about this, close the airports. the rich hate it when they can't travel, and that dissolves shutdowns like boiling water melts ice.
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Actually, we had gotten to the point of reduced screening throughput, which was significantly increasing travel times, and it was greatly escalating. So it had already gotten to a pretty bad place and was heading for worse. But we've got to be careful here with travel shutdowns, because we can tank the economy and explode the markets.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

I used CNN as my source here, but the talks faltering is being widely reported by other reputable sources. In fact, CNN seems a bit more cautious in their use of the term "concerned", since most other sources are calling the talks "stalled".

In an effort to provide a balanced OP, I quoted an introductory excerpt of the topic itself, followed by a Dem commentary excerpt and a Republican commentary excerpt. They all seem to corroborate each other.

According to the article's claims, it seems the Dems may be willing to go part of the way to meeting Trump's demands for his wall, but expect compromise or concession on ICE detainment - something the Republicans seem not willing to negotiate.

So, what do you think? Should both sides make concessions? Should the Repubs hold their ground? Should the Dems? Should Nancy throw it back to Trump, and tell him: "It's your wall, you figure it out"?
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Trump and the Republicans are fools if they think Pelosi is going to cave this time. She already held the line during the last shutdown, and she has the entire Democratic base behind her to do it again.

Two shutdowns in one year, and we're only a month and a half in, would look terrible for the president and his self-professed ability to make deals. The Republicans need to compromise.
 
Chomsky said:
Actually, we had gotten to the point of reduced screening throughput, which was significantly increasing travel times, and it was greatly escalating. So it had already gotten to a pretty bad place and was heading for worse. But we've got to be careful here with travel shutdowns, because we can tank the economy and explode the markets.
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people shouldn't work for free, and toddlers shouldn't be allowed to take hostages. let the wealthy telecommute. they own congress, so they'll make sure that shutdowns end quickly just like they did last time.
 
sangha said:
And so, once again, the repubs demands for more money will lead to a govt shutdown

Because it worked so well for them the last time
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Yep - resist, resist, resist wins again. After all, doing nothing much different (yet another CR) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90%. Keeping things as "issues" is the politically preferred bipartisan solution.
 
sangha said:
And so, once again, the repubs demands for more money will lead to a govt shutdown

Because it worked so well for them the last time
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Yeah, that's why in my post at the end, my final option was Pelosi simply tossing it all back to Trump to figure it out himself. It's been reported elsewhere that the Dems are offering 2B to the wall. I can see Nancy Telling Trump, "take-it-or-leave-it, it's your wall".
 
Chomsky said:
Source: Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

I used CNN as my source here, but the talks faltering is being widely reported by other reputable sources. In fact, CNN seems a bit more cautious in their use of the term "concerned", since most other sources are calling the talks "stalled".

In an effort to provide a balanced OP, I quoted an introductory excerpt of the topic itself, followed by a Dem commentary excerpt and a Republican commentary excerpt. They all seem to corroborate each other.

According to the article's claims, it seems the Dems may be willing to go part of the way to meeting Trump's demands for his wall, but expect compromise or concession on ICE detainment - something the Republicans seem not willing to negotiate.

So, what do you think? Should both sides make concessions? Should the Repubs hold their ground? Should the Dems? Should Nancy throw it back to Trump, and tell him: "It's your wall, you figure it out"?
Click to expand...

Good one, the Dems want to reduce the holding cells of criminals that ICE uses to hold illegal criminals for deportation. Reduce the amount of holding cells, are you kidding me. Christ the Dems want to reduce ICE's ability to hold illegal criminals so thay have to to let them out on the street. And in exchange they will fund some money for a wall. You have to brain dead to go with that deal. Reduce ICE from detaining illegals criminals to force ICE to let them go for money to build a wall. Lets see we can stop more illegals at the border but we let illegal criminals go back into our society. The left has moved so far left their off the planet.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep - resist, resist, resist wins again. After all, doing nothing much different (yet another CR) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90%. Keeping things as "issues" is the politically preferred bipartisan solution.
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I would think a libertarian such as yourself would support the dems efforts to keep spending down.
 
Chomsky said:
So, what do you think? Should both sides make concessions? Should the Repubs hold their ground? Should the Dems? Should Nancy throw it back to Trump, and tell him: "It's your wall, you figure it out"?
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There's no need for Pelosi to make concessions because Trump has already said he doesn't need congress and can declare a national emergency to get his wall. So if he shuts down the government again for lack of wall funding from congress he only proves himself to be a liar again. The difference is this time, with all Trump's rhetoric about a national emergency, McConnell would be stupid to go along with it.
 
Phys251 said:
Trump and the Republicans are fools if they think Pelosi is going to cave this time. She already held the line during the last shutdown, and she has the entire Democratic base behind her to do it again.

Two shutdowns in one year, and we're only a month and a half in, would look terrible for the president and his self-professed ability to make deals. The Republicans need to compromise.
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They did that in a big way by electing Trump.
 
sangha said:
I would think a libertarian such as yourself would support the dems efforts to keep spending down.
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I do, but why not cut spending rather than continue to have ineffective spending?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They did that in a big way by electing Trump.
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I'm talking about the Republicans' need to compromise with the majority party in the House.
 
Helix said:
people shouldn't work for free, and toddlers shouldn't be allowed to take hostages. let the wealthy telecommute. they own congress, so they'll make sure that shutdowns end quickly just like they did last time.
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I can empathize with this, but the collateral damage of an air transportation shutdown would be enormous. The markets would crash, killing many working American's 401Ks. Also all the allied jobs, including those of the passengers and package haulers and those that depend upon them, would take economic hits.

An air transport shutdown would send would send a huge tsunami throughout the business-world and the lives of a great many citizens.
 
Chomsky said:
I can empathize with this, but the collateral damage of an air transportation shutdown would be enormous. The markets would crash, killing many working American's 401Ks. Also all the allied jobs, including those of the passengers and package haulers and those that depend upon them, would take economic hits.

An air transport shutdown would send would send a huge tsunami throughout the business-world and the lives of a great many citizens.
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mostly closing LaGuardia seemed to be enough to stop the shutdown by that afternoon. they should do that again. as for the crash, i'm afraid that there has been so much stupid that it has become basically inevitable. it sucks, because i can't afford another one, but i was pretty sure that it would happen once another round of trickle down passed. i hope that i'm incorrect about that.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

I used CNN as my source here, but the talks faltering is being widely reported by other reputable sources. In fact, CNN seems a bit more cautious in their use of the term "concerned", since most other sources are calling the talks "stalled".

In an effort to provide a balanced OP, I quoted an introductory excerpt of the topic itself, followed by a Dem commentary excerpt and a Republican commentary excerpt. They all seem to corroborate each other.

According to the article's claims, it seems the Dems may be willing to go part of the way to meeting Trump's demands for his wall, but expect compromise or concession on ICE detainment - something the Republicans seem not willing to negotiate.

So, what do you think? Should both sides make concessions? Should the Repubs hold their ground? Should the Dems? Should Nancy throw it back to Trump, and tell him: "It's your wall, you figure it out"?
Click to expand...

Several democrats have expressed a willingness to compromise with Trump. If Pelosi refuses to compromise does that not make her a part of the problem and not the solution?
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, that's why in my post at the end, my final option was Pelosi simply tossing it all back to Trump to figure it out himself. It's been reported elsewhere that the Dems are offering 2B to the wall. I can see Nancy Telling Trump, "take-it-or-leave-it, it's your wall".
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This may push him to declaring a "national emergency," something the Dem's may hope for but I do not.

It seems to me that Trump's $5.1 Billion was for comprehensive improvements (like hiring more agents, more immigration judges, and building more "people friendly" holding facilities) with a portion desired for wall repair and extension.

Offering less than half, while demanding more concessions does not seem like any reasonable compromise where once upon a time they were willing to support $25 Billion.

Now if the offer is $2 Billion for the wall specifically, and additional funding specifically allocated for hiring, and detention/processing improvements? I would support that as a reasonable compromise.
 
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Born Free said:
Good one, the Dems want to reduce the holding cells of criminals that ICE uses to hold illegal criminals for deportation. Reduce the amount of holding cells, are you kidding me. Christ the Dems want to reduce ICE's ability to hold illegal criminals so thay have to to let them out on the street. And in exchange they will fund some money for a wall. You have to brain dead to go with that deal. Reduce ICE from detaining illegals criminals to force ICE to let them go for money to build a wall. Lets see we can stop more illegals at the border but we let illegal criminals go back into our society. The left has moved so far left their off the planet.
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Actually, I'm somewhat with you here, but need a bit more info to make an informed decision.

If the Dems are trying to nullify the new Trump policies of keeping kids in detainment or separating kids from their parents, then I might support them here. But if they're simply attempting to look good while adding a poison-pill to blow-up the negotiations, then I won't.

Quite honestly though, Trump has made such a mess out of this that I think Pelosi's best deal is to not get involved, and let Trump figure it out himself. In fact, it's been reported elsewhere that she is preparing clean CRs to submit if the talks fail.
 
Praxas said:
There's no need for Pelosi to make concessions because Trump has already said he doesn't need congress and can declare a national emergency to get his wall. So if he shuts down the government again for lack of wall funding from congress he only proves himself to be a liar again. The difference is this time, with all Trump's rhetoric about a national emergency, McConnell would be stupid to go along with it.
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In political terms, that's exactly what I'm thinking - Praxas.
 
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